Electrical advise please

Hello Guys

I have a question for the electrically experienced here.

You can see from the picture below that I have the electrical board high up in my house (top, left).

It is quite hard for me to reach it for medical reasons, so in an emergency/rush It would now be a problem.

It would be much handier to have it relocated 1 meter lower, where the picture is now in the image.

Question:
1-is this possible?
2-how complex it is/what should I expect to pay

Thanks for you precious advice
BWs
franco

http://squelettewatches.com/wp-conte...9/05/board.jpg

You need a proper electrician to take a look. It will all depend if there is enough slack on all the wires that go into the fuse box and you might also need to get your leccy company in if the wires from the meter aren’t long enough.

Also won’t your alarm box get in the way or are you thinking of mounting it below that or maybe on the opposite side?

Yes, I will ask my electrician - but wanted to know more before I ask

The board should go where the picture is now (see below)

http://squelettewatches.com/wp-conte.../05/board2.jpg

Good plan.

The cabling from the meter to consumer unit (meter tails) could go straight through the shelf. Might even be long enough which leaves the wiring to the rest of the house. Unlikely you'll have the length there by the looks of it.

Where the consumer unit presently is you'd have a junction box I guess, and a new set of cables, again through the shelf, to the consumer unit re-located below.

Assuming it is all ok regulations-wise, and the meter tails are long enough to go through the shelf and do the business, you'll need a DIN rail enclosure where the consumer unit is at present with enough DIN rail terminals for each circuit.

This thread seems to refer to a similar problem:

https://www2.theiet.org/forums/forum...threadid=57594

I found a 17-way enclosure for about £80

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/prod...ip31-enclosure

and the connectors are about a £1 each

https://www.rselectricalsupplies.co....BoCoLsQAvD_BwE

so the bits are probably about a ton plus some cable, call it £150 then and that's got to be £150 of anyone's time at least so £300-£500 should cover it depending on your electrician's rates.

That all assumes my solution isn't rubbish for some reason!

(It needs a proper survey as it's hard to see what's going on below the present consumer unit there. Also assumes the present unit can be refitted as-is and doesn't need replacing for some reason.)

Looking at your pics again those breakers should have a cover over them and don't store anything combustible below it. One of the failure modes of breakers/electrics causes sparks which need to be contained to stop them dropping and causing a fire.

Thanks, that’s very useful.

The closure you mention I had to take it out because currently if I manage to get up and holding the handle that you may see horizontally, only have one hand to flip the switch. And th3 cover would not allow me

If I were to get it moved below, could get a new one.

Having had a similar problem with wanting the fuse/breaker unit moved I think you should get at least 2 quotes unless you have a competent and trusted electrician to use. Since you can leave the black Electricity network junction box and meter where they are you shouldn't have to involve them. Which is good new because they are very expensive to get that kind of thing done. Once the consumer unit is moved new longer cables can be run to it no problem.

Because of a recent change in regs a new consumer unit alone could cost you £1500 without fitting so probably over 2k all in, your electrician will be better placed to explain and possibly mitigate this once they’ve seen everything. If you agree to an older spec consumer unit after discussion with a qualified electrician I’d expect it to cost around £800ish probably nearer to 1k. Anything can be done but extending all circuits obviously adds to the time and hassle etc, it needs to be inspected properly though so prices are a very rough guess there could be more or less involved thus affecting the price.

Actually most of the circuits seem to come in from below so you may get lucky and they’re long enough

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

Because of a recent change in regs a new consumer unit alone could cost you £1500 without fitting so probably over 2k all in, your electrician will be better placed to explain and possibly mitigate this once they’ve seen everything. If you agree to an older spec consumer unit after discussion with a qualified electrician I’d expect it to cost around £800ish probably nearer to 1k. Anything can be done but extending all circuits obviously adds to the time and hassle etc, it needs to be inspected properly though so prices are a very rough guess there could be more or less involved thus affecting the price.

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£1500, why so expensive?

£1500 for a consumer unit?

Rubbish, the most expensive 10 way from Screwfix is only £229.99 inc-VAT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nunya

£1500 for a consumer unit?

Rubbish, the most expensive 10 way from Screwfix is only £229.99 inc-VAT

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We had a new one (to the latest regs.) installed last year. 20 way unit with 18 RCBO's and a main switch fitted. The installation involved removing two older non current reg compliant consumer units with a single compliant unit and moving it a couple of feet. The unit cost £241.82 ex vat, with labour £400 on top of that. I'm really happy that we fitted RCBOs instead of MCBs and RCCDs, because if one circuit trips it just takes out that one circuit and not half the board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

Because of a recent change in regs a new consumer unit alone could cost you £1500 without fitting so probably over 2k all in, your electrician will be better placed to explain and possibly mitigate this once they’ve seen everything. If you agree to an older spec consumer unit after discussion with a qualified electrician I’d expect it to cost around £800ish probably nearer to 1k. Anything can be done but extending all circuits obviously adds to the time and hassle etc, it needs to be inspected properly though so prices are a very rough guess there could be more or less involved thus affecting the price.

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Can you provides links to these new regulations because I think you're completely misguided. As others have posted I can buy an MK CU complete with breakers for £70.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franco

Hello Guys

I have a question for the electrically experienced here.

You can see from the picture below that I have the electrical board high up in my house (top, left).

It is quite hard for me to reach it for medical reasons, so in an emergency/rush It would now be a problem.

It would be much handier to have it relocated 1 meter lower, where the picture is now in the image.

Question:
1-is this possible?
2-how complex it is/what should I expect to pay

Thanks for you precious advice
BWs
franco

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While it is possble to extend the circuits in theory (using an enclosure as has been described above) the issue is likely to be finding an electrician who is prepared to take it on & sign off the installation. I suggest you contact a few local electricians to get quote to see if you can find one that will. Personally I would avoide sites like Checkatrade & instead ask for recommendations or try your local Facebook group - ours is good for this sort of thing.

As I guide I had a new CU fitted a few months ago & it cost £700 for materials & labour (Berkshire rates). As part of installing the CU the electrician must test all the circuits & supply you with a report. During this testing he may well find issues & he will have to correct these which may well cost extra. He will also need to check earth bonding to gas & water pipes is present & if it's not correct he may well need to run new cabling.

Depending on where you are located I wouldn't be surprised if the work you wanted were to cost as much as £1000. Don't be surprised if the electricians you get to quote try & tell you the house needs rewiring. Unless they can clearly demonstrate why (eg rubber covered cabling) then cross them off the list.

Looking at the picture again I'm surprised the meter is screwed to the wall & not mounted on the wooden board. I've got a slight suspicion that the CU has been replaced & the meter moved off the board for clearance. Don't be surprised if this gets flagged up.

Make a 1m rod out of dowel with a decent sturdy hook in the end, in an emergency just use it to pull your main (red) breaker switch down. Cheap at half the price!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nunya

£1500 for a consumer unit?

Rubbish, the most expensive 10 way from Screwfix is only £229.99 inc-VAT

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Ok it’s rubbish

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Incredible Sulk

We had a new one (to the latest regs.) installed last year. 20 way unit with 18 RCBO's and a main switch fitted. The installation involved removing two older non current reg compliant consumer units with a single compliant unit and moving it a couple of feet. The unit cost £241.82 ex vat, with labour £400 on top of that. I'm really happy that we fitted RCBOs instead of MCBs and RCCDs, because if one circuit trips it just takes out that one circuit and not half the board.

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That was last year new regulations came into force in January that potentially changes everything it can be mitigated but that’s down to the electrician carrying out the work under agreement with the client.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Pointy

Can you provides links to these new regulations because I think you're completely misguided. As others have posted I can buy an MK CU complete with breakers for £70.

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18th edition IEE regulations which came into force in January and especially changes domestic premises or to quote “premises with sleeping quarters “ there’s a lot of discussion about it within the industry at the moment AFD’s which it specifies are around £130 each

https://www.automation24.co.uk/arc-f...xoCxHYQAvD_BwE

So 10 circuits with one on each circuit .

Just to clarify I am an electrician by trade although I don’t touch domestic it’s caused a big debate with engineers I know on new apartment blocks that are being designed at the moment due to increased cost, size and the fact that regulations are written in a way that someone has to state the fact why they’re not needed and potentially leave themselves open to a future law suit. I believe it’s come about partly because of Grenfell (sp)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

Ok it’s rubbish



That was last year new regulations came into force in January that potentially changes everything it can be mitigated but that’s down to the electrician carrying out the work under agreement with the client.




18th edition IEE regulations which came into force in January and especially changes domestic premises or to quote “premises with sleeping quarters “ there’s a lot of discussion about it within the industry at the moment AFD’s which it specifies are around £130 each

https://www.automation24.co.uk/arc-f...xoCxHYQAvD_BwE

So 10 circuits with one on each circuit .

Just to clarify I am an electrician by trade although I don’t touch domestic it’s caused a big debate with engineers I know on new apartment blocks that are being designed at the moment due to increased cost, size and the fact that regulations are written in a way that someone has to state the fact why they’re not needed and potentially leave themselves open to a future law suit. I believe it’s come about partly because of Grenfell (sp)

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I thought 'premises with sleeping quarters' referred to hostels etc?

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Originally Posted by Montybaber

I thought 'premises with sleeping quarters' referred to hostels etc?

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I can’t remember the exact wording but it’s ambiguous enough to essentially mean all houses in fact when discussing we where struggling to come up with something not covered by it. I’ll have a mooch and see if I can find the exact wording.

-Premises with sleeping accommodation
-Locations with a risk of fire due to the nature of processed or stored materials
-Locations with combustible constructional materials
-Fire propagating structures
-Locations with endangering of irreplaceable goods

Page 80 of the regs also says AFDD’s are also recommended within domestic premises conforming to blah blah

Basically the way it’s worded puts the onus on the designer or installer possibly mitigated with the client which is a bit of a grey area at the moment but I’m certain in a fire etc the sparky would be in court defending why he didn’t install them. I’m sure given time the prices will fall I remember rcds being stupidly priced years ago but at the moment you can see why it could add £1200 onto the cost of a domestic consumer unit

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

-Premises with sleeping accommodation
-Locations with a risk of fire due to the nature of processed or stored materials
-Locations with combustible constructional materials
-Fire propagating structures
-Locations with endangering of irreplaceable goods

Page 80 of the regs also says AFDD’s are also recommended within domestic premises conforming to blah blah

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Arc protection devices are not compulsory yet only a recommendation. I’d also add that surge protection would be something to ask for a quote for, we fit them on every distribution board change commercially and domestically. We also never fit split load boards as the inconvenience when you lose the whole side of the board with one fault.
Your right about the cost though, think the cheapest AFDD breaker we can get is a Hager for £90 plus the dreaded. Putting in a merlin/Schneider board will be Insane,


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pennywise

Arc protection devices are not compulsory yet only a recommendation. I’d also add that surge protection would be something to ask for a quote for, we fit them on every distribution board change commercially and domestically. We also never fit split load boards as the inconvenience when you lose the whole side of the board with one fault.
Your right about the cost though, think the cheapest AFDD breaker we can get is a Hager for £90 plus the dreaded. Putting in a merlin/Schneider board will be Insane,


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Are you discussing them with clients pros cons etc? As I said I don't work on domestic but the way it was explained to me is that you'd be best covering yourself if they're not fitted in case of future fire etc. I know it's causing some headaches for the design guys at the moment

I’d put aside about 6-700 all in for this including certification.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

Are you discussing them with clients pros cons etc? As I said I don't work on domestic but the way it was explained to me is that you'd be best covering yourself if they're not fitted in case of future fire etc. I know it's causing some headaches for the design guys at the moment

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We offer it to them in the quote as a line cost item and explain that it is a recommendation and what the devices do then they can decide whether they want it, so it’s in writing but surprise surprise no one has had it done yet lol.
SPD on the other hand people don’t have so much of a problem with as it’s only £100 uplift in cost and it is compulsory.
I’m sure when they get down to about RCBO prices they’ll be everywhere and when they make the first amendment to the 18th and you need them. Then we’ll have a new set of faults to find


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Thanks to all
It is obvious I should ask my trusted electrician now
Best wishes
Franco

Ridiculous the over-regulations in this country.

Can’t see what it’s got to do with Grenfell either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Ridiculous the over-regulations in this country.

Can’t see what it’s got to do with Grenfell either.

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The fire was suppose to have been started by a fridge freezer, which if an AFDD were fitted could possibly have prevent it from catching light, they weren’t available at the time because the regs didn’t require or recommend there use.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pennywise

The fire was suppose to have been started by a fridge freezer, which if an AFDD were fitted could possibly have prevent it from catching light, they weren’t available at the time because the regs didn’t require or recommend there use.


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Thanks, didn’t realise this. From what I can see though, this doesn’t apply to individual houses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

18th edition IEE regulations which came into force in January and especially changes domestic premises or to quote “premises with sleeping quarters “ there’s a lot of discussion about it within the industry at the moment AFD’s which it specifies are around £130 each

https://www.automation24.co.uk/arc-f...xoCxHYQAvD_BwE

So 10 circuits with one on each circuit .

Just to clarify I am an electrician by trade although I don’t touch domestic it’s caused a big debate with engineers I know on new apartment blocks that are being designed at the moment due to increased cost, size and the fact that regulations are written in a way that someone has to state the fact why they’re not needed and potentially leave themselves open to a future law suit. I believe it’s come about partly because of Grenfell (sp)

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This is a very popular site dealing with all aspects of domestic work including electrics & has a lot of electricians posting:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/forums/electrics/

There's no mention I can find of AFDs. I think you're mistaken to state that AFDs apply to domestic CUs, which is worrying. Maybe you should tell Screwfix & all the other vendors they are selling illegal CUs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Pointy

This is a very popular site dealing with all aspects of domestic work including electrics & has a lot of electricians posting:
https://www.diynot.com/diy/forums/electrics/

There's no mention I can find of AFDs. I think you're mistaken to state that AFDs apply to domestic CUs, which is worrying. Maybe you should tell Screwfix & all the other vendors they are selling illegal CUs.

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I'm not mistaken at all, Did you read the new regulations? They're not illegal why would they be just like you can still buy rewireable fuses

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pennywise

We offer it to them in the quote as a line cost item and explain that it is a recommendation and what the devices do then they can decide whether they want it, so it’s in writing but surprise surprise no one has had it done yet lol.
SPD on the other hand people don’t have so much of a problem with as it’s only £100 uplift in cost and it is compulsory.
I’m sure when they get down to about RCBO prices they’ll be everywhere and when they make the first amendment to the 18th and you need them. Then we’ll have a new set of faults to find


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At least you will be covered by doing that, is the new amendment out this summer? Interesting stuff along with SPDs the cupboard under the stairs might not be big enough soon lol

That fuse board is fine it looks quite new. Shouldn’t be a problem moving it and keeping it
£100 I’d say if no issues found

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bootneck

At least you will be covered by doing that, is the new amendment out this summer? Interesting stuff along with SPDs the cupboard under the stairs might not be big enough soon lol

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I don’t know when the amendment will be out I’m guess it’ll be early next year if there is one haven’t heard any rumours from the IET. It gets even worse when you have to deal with building control on new build they want to see energy management too!.This was a DB from a store in a new build shopping centre, it had tri metering for small power, lighting and mechanical, I’m 6ft and it was level with the top of my head and the bare board was in the region of £3k without breakers.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...efe450694d.jpg


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pennywise

I don’t know when the amendment will be out I’m guess it’ll be early next year if there is one haven’t heard any rumours from the IET. It gets even worse when you have to deal with building control on new build they want to see energy management too!.This was a DB from a store in a new build shopping centre, it had tri metering for small power, lighting and mechanical, I’m 6ft and it was level with the top of my head and the bare board was in the region of £3k without breakers.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...efe450694d.jpg


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Yeah it's getting worse everywhere I know a few on the design side are having some big issues now certainly on new build apartments because you haven't got a yet client so who takes the responsibility lol. I'll stick with big power lol