Today I went to the car showrooms and I looked at... Large PHEV SUV's

Determined not to be caught out by not ordering in advance enough again, I have decided to pull my finger out and get organised well in advance of my current car contract coming to an end at the beginning of October.

I've decided that a large PHEV SUV suits me best for my daily driver, so today I went an looked at the four on my shortlist. All would be 2022 models.

The ones I looked at are:

Audi Q7 TFSie 60
Volvo XC90 R-Design or R-Design Pro T8 PHEV Recharge
Jaguar F-Pace P400e HSE
Range Rover Sport P400e HSE

The Audi was obviously a fine car, but just felt rather dull. The Jaguar probably a bit small in the boot department (more a mid-size SUV), and the Range Rover was nice, but didn't feel overly special and I do have serious concerns about their reliability.

The one that I think I really, really liked was the Volvo. It was beautiful inside with grey wood trim, the seats were the best, the tech was excellent, and frankly it felt considerably more "premium" to me than any of the others - which rather surprised me.

Anyone here got one? Or experience of one?

Any other views?

Late 2020 Bought an XC90 T8 inscription 2 years old 11’000 miles as wanted reliable , economical SUV..

Got it home plugged in would not charge ( later it was discovered main power unit failure)...

Tried to update apps would not communicate...told cloud down for 48 hours so just wait until server back online ....

Rang dealership excercised my right to return for full refund ...screwed around for 24 hours then got money back

which is a shame as many endearing qualities......but maybe just a bad one

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/09...nreliable-car/

We looked at most of those and ended up buying a one year old Lexus RX450h in a takumi spec. It is brilliant.


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Looked at all the above after selling my Defender. Went for a Ford Ranger!

I have a small amount of personal experience with the BMW X5 hybrid but my brother bought one and loves it. It's paired in his house with an I-pace as he is a real convert to EV but with the current charging network, any distance driving especially to his house in the South West, is a bit of a PITA. The X5 is a great compromise and has been faultless. Harry Metcalf runs one and has done a couple of videos on it and also found it an excellent balance of attributes. Personal experience of JLR products, and customer service, although not hybrids would definitely steer me away from them.

Go have a look at the new X5. Cracking car.

Had a test drive in a 2019 Volvo XC90 in the summer and passed as it creaked inside like mad. Couldn’t live with that. To be fair it was a very hot day but I wasn’t going to risk it

I got a 2018 Volvo xc90 t8 and love it. Ridiculous acceleration for such a large and heavy car. On short local trips I do it all on electric. Loads of space and feels luxurious.

I test drove a Lexus as I was attracted by the famed reliability but the interior felt like it was from the 90s whereas the Volvo felt like it was from the future. Also for such a big car outside, the Lexus did not feel big inside.

I'd try a Lexus again if/when they do a PHEV.

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Originally Posted by mindforge

I got a 2018 Volvo xc90 t8 and love it. Ridiculous acceleration for such a large and heavy car. On short local trips I do it all on electric. Loads of space and feels luxurious.

I test drove a Lexus as I was attracted by the famed reliability but the interior felt like it was from the 90s whereas the Volvo felt like it was from the future. Also for such a big car outside, the Lexus did not feel big inside.

I'd try a Lexus again if/when they do a PHEV.

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https://i.ibb.co/gPmB3BH/20210423-142839.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/txpR7SM/20210423-142936.jpg

1990s. Really?

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Originally Posted by jpjsavage

https://i.ibb.co/gPmB3BH/20210423-142839.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/txpR7SM/20210423-142936.jpg

1990s. Really?

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Bit harsh, maybe 2000’s [emoji1303]

I’m sure it’s beautifully screwed together, but the Lexus interior does look very ‘traditional’, which is wonderful if that’s what you like or want.

Is that wood on the steering wheel?

I agree there is something very nice about Volvo interiors, they’ve overtaken Audi for me as the standard for them.

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Originally Posted by Anygreg

Bit harsh, maybe 2000’s [emoji1303]

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Ha yes. No offence, was just my feeling when about to drop a lot of money on a car!

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Originally Posted by mindforge

Ha yes. No offence, was just my feeling when about to drop a lot of money on a car!

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Oh I agree with you entirely. It’s only when you sit in the new modern cabins you begin to realise how far things have come. To make a Lexus look dated is no small thing, but dated it is (1990’s was on the money by the way lol). But sit inside the new X5, especially at night with the optional sky lounge and it’s one of the best interiors I’ve ever ever sat in. Quality, fit and finish is on another level.

It's no wonder that those of us with normal sized cars can't find a parking space that isn't overhung by enormous overweight wallowing bloated SUVs these days...

I bought an XC90 last year, needed space as have added a dog to the 3 children. Very well screwed together vehicle, reliable thus far, and a reasonable performance for such a big vehicle. It feels "premium" inside, very comfortable and airy, and drives nicely for an SUV, especially in "dynamic" mode.
I opted for the more basic B5, but had I the choice again I would have gone for the T8. Outside of the commute I do short school runs and the electric would have been ideal for that.

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So out of interest how much / range or change in mpg do these large heavy suvs get by being hybrid ?
I remember when the mitsu was being advertised - and then it turned out the batteries gave tiny true mileage and so the engine did the bulk of the work.

Does the added weight of the batteries in these cars outperform the standard models (if they still offer them?)

cheers

Matt

Have you considered the new Toyota Highlander? Seems well-specced for the price.

I've had a 66-plate XC90 T8 from new. Apart from the early months, when it suffered from a litany of software issues that had me gnawing the furniture with frustration, it's been brilliant. The software problem was solved by Volvo (as I understand it) more-or-less re-writing the operating system, and after the major update all the issues went away.

Good things:
1) economy - most of my mileage is inside the M25, and pottering around on the electric motor is perfect for that. I get about 20 real-world miles out of a charge, which means all my local journeys are electric, and if I am going further afield I have enough range to get onto a motorway (at which point the blown 2-litre petrol engine is pretty efficient). Lifetime mpg is just over 39.0, which for a large SUV which lives in London, isn't bad at all IMO.
2) performance - mine has the "polestar" driving mode as an option and if you want some fun, that's where it lives. It's far faster than a big, comfy family wagon should be, and it disguises its considerable heft pretty well. I've found the optional air suspension great, too - it can give you great control and stability at speed, plus good comfort on perforated London tarmac and decent ground clearance off the road.
3) interior - as others have said, it's a cut above. In my mind, what Audi were in the early 2000s - just a splendidly comfortable, classy, well designed place to be.
4) winter pack - the other important option, this means you can pre-warm the car if you know you've got an early start in the winter. A small thing, but so very civilised.
5) the app - I have genuinely found it useful to be able to lock/unlock the car, and set climate control timers (see above) etc, from my phone.

Bad things:
1) the third row of seats is really not for grown-ups. And boot space is a bit limited if you use them all the time.
2) there is no illumination on the manual air vent controls. I kinda understand this, as you're clearly meant to drive the HVAC from the control screen, but at night it is a bit irritating to have to grope about in the dark if you want to change the air vents manually.
3) the battery in the waterproof "activity key" doesn't last anywhere near the advertised 3 years.

Am looking at something similar and the X5 is certainly in the top 3 options if not at the top. Seems to have got the mix of tech sorted really well combined to having best drive experience and great cabin.

We’ve had an xc90 rdesign for around 18 months now I’d have chosen the Lexus personally but as the wife uses it mainly it was her final choice for the Volvo no issues it’s a very nice place to sit. The rear seats are great for our kids eldest 9 but I certainly wouldn’t want to sit in there, it does everything family very well no complaints from me, as the kids are growing at an alarming rate I think the next family car will be a Vclass or similar which no doubt will not be accepted by the Mrs lol.

I am a strong advocate of Volvo. As such when it came time to upgrade our V90 my first port of call was the XC90 T8. Took it for a test drive just before Christmas. It is a nice place to be and if we had not of owned the V90 for 3 years prior I am sure we would of purchased it. However a few pointers struck me, although bigger inside it was exactly the same as a V90. Tech and trim all the same this is the same interior that has been in the car for almost 6 Years (believe a new xc90 is enroute)Why would that bother me? Well given the XC90 was £75k and brand new I was looking for something more. The other issue I had was with the 4 cylinder engine that although as others have mentioned is quick coupled with the battery’s leaves much to be desired acoustically. Feeling somewhat deflated we decided to take a new X5 for a test drive. The X5 just had everything the XC90 was lacking, new tech better interior, no drone from 4 pot engine. So we took the X5. However like I said if you haven’t been in a Volvo for a few years probably take the xc90. Watch out for residuals with the new model enroute


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Thanks for all the info and insight so far.

I think I have found another contender though - the Mercedes GLE 350de - the plug in hybrid. It has an electric only range of up to 66miles, which could be highly useful.

Anyone know anything about these?

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Originally Posted by glyn696486

I am a strong advocate of Volvo. As such when it came time to upgrade our V90 my first port of call was the XC90 T8. Took it for a test drive just before Christmas. It is a nice place to be and if we had not of owned the V90 for 3 years prior I am sure we would of purchased it. However a few pointers struck me, although bigger inside it was exactly the same as a V90. Tech and trim all the same this is the same interior that has been in the car for almost 6 Years (believe a new xc90 is enroute)Why would that bother me? Well given the XC90 was £75k and brand new I was looking for something more. The other issue I had was with the 4 cylinder engine that although as others have mentioned is quick coupled with the battery’s leaves much to be desired acoustically. Feeling somewhat deflated we decided to take a new X5 for a test drive. The X5 just had everything the XC90 was lacking, new tech better interior, no drone from 4 pot engine. So we took the X5. However like I said if you haven’t been in a Volvo for a few years probably take the xc90. Watch out for residuals with the new model enroute

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Couldn't agree more on the petrol engine - it sounds like a washing machine or something: very dull and unexciting. It probably doesn't bother me as much as it should, since I have a different car for the sound effects. :)

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Originally Posted by PreacherCain

Couldn't agree more on the petrol engine - it sounds like a washing machine or something: very dull and unexciting. It probably doesn't bother me as much as it should, since I have a different car for the sound effects. :)

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The disappointing bit was I had wanted T8 since it’s launch in 2016 best part of 5 years! However at that time was well out of my reach anyway.


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What about a Porsche Cayenne Hybrid? We test drove one of those and it was great fun. We went the Lexus route in the end but it was a close second.

Thanks for all the feedback. Today I have ordered a Range Rover Sport P400e HSE Dynamic Black Edition for delivery in October (it's the PHEV 404bhp version). Fully loaded with air suspension, Meridian surround sound, and most impressively, a fridge.

I got a good deal and it seemed to tick all the boxes. I am going into it with my eyes open, but ultimately I got bored of looking and just decided to take the plunge!

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Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana

Thanks for all the feedback. Today I have ordered a Range Rover Sport P400e HSE Dynamic Black Edition for delivery in October (it's the PHEV 404bhp version). Fully loaded with air suspension, Meridian surround sound, and most impressively, a fridge.

I got a good deal and it seemed to tick all the boxes. I am going into it with my eyes open, but ultimately I got bored of looking and just decided to take the plunge!

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I will be really interested to see how you get on with this. It was on my radar when we got our X5 at the beginning of the year. However was struggling to get good feedback about Landrover as a brand. Love the look of RR sport, enjoy.


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Sounds like quite the machine, you really will be the flying banana.

I hope you get a good one, I will be interested to hear how you get on with it.:eagerness:

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Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana

Thanks for all the info and insight so far.

I think I have found another contender though - the Mercedes GLE 350de - the plug in hybrid. It has an electric only range of up to 66miles, which could be highly useful.

Anyone know anything about these?

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The Mrs currently had a brand new Q7 60, I love driving it, pretty rapid and loads of tech, it replaced an e-tron that was short lived. She has a GLE350 on order that is due in October, haven’t seen one in person myself but I prefer the looks of the Q7.

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Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana

Thanks for all the feedback. Today I have ordered a Range Rover Sport P400e HSE Dynamic Black Edition for delivery in October (it's the PHEV 404bhp version). Fully loaded with air suspension, Meridian surround sound, and most impressively, a fridge.

I got a good deal and it seemed to tick all the boxes. I am going into it with my eyes open, but ultimately I got bored of looking and just decided to take the plunge!

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What sort of deal did you do it on,just wondering if you used their new Pivotal platform,I’ve ordered a Vogue SE PHEV on it coming in October ?

Guy Salmon, Stockport.

9 months down, £653 per month, 48months, 10,000 per annum.

No other dealers could get close - most coming out at £850-900 per month in same terms.

Mines £550 down,£1800/month incl VAT but that includes everything even insurance with a new one after 6 months 18,000 miles pa.

Why do you want a new one after 6 months? I know these aren't cheap cars and it's all in but £1.8k per month seems incredibly strong.

I don’t “want” a new 1 every 6 months I need a short term deal I can walk away from due to the volatile nature of my business,so this financial model which is a rolling 3 month deal suits me ,at 3 months I can either walk away or choose a cheaper and at 6 months they swap it for a new one.All I have to do is add fuel all other costs including VAT are covered.
I’m guessing it’s something to do with the VAT.
I was genuinely interested to see how it compared with a long term commitment for a similar LR product hence my question.

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Originally Posted by glyn696486

I will be really interested to see how you get on with this. It was on my radar when we got our X5 at the beginning of the year. However was struggling to get good feedback about Landrover as a brand. Love the look of RR sport, enjoy.


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I did exactly the same. Love the look of the RRS but as mentioned above reliability/service support is a big factor for me. Knowing a few lads that work at LR factory as well and asking them questions I also ended up with the new X5, must say I’m smitten with it. Just out to wash it now ;)

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Originally Posted by SeePee

I don’t “want” a new 1 every 6 months I need a short term deal I can walk away from due to the volatile nature of my business,so this financial model which is a rolling 3 month deal suits me ,at 3 months I can either walk away or choose a cheaper and at 6 months they swap it for a new one.All I have to do is add fuel all other costs including VAT are covered.
I’m guessing it’s something to do with the VAT.
I was genuinely interested to see how it compared with a long term commitment for a similar LR product hence my question.

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Ah you're on the subscription hence all in. Makes sense - with flexibility comes a savage direct debit.

I'd be testing the water for a retention offer once the minimum term is up.

The reliability of it is my main concern, however I had a candid chat with one of my oldest friends who is very high up at JLR, and he was very frank. The RR Sport is probably their most reliable model, and issues with 3rd party component suppliers and quality have been pretty much ironed out over time. The PHEV powertrain seems strong and well-proven now also.

That said, I will post up here a few honest updates on my experience for the benefit of others.

One of the clinchers for me was the off-raod ability. We have a holiday place down in Somerset now, that is only accessible via a narrow, steep lane right to the cliff-tops. The RR is, by any review, way ahead of other large SUV's in terms of its "go anywhere" capabilities, so if we are in Somerset over Christmas, and the weather is poor, the last thing I would want is to get stuck.

Fingers crossed I get a good one!

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Originally Posted by wileeeeeey

Ah you're on the subscription hence all in. Makes sense - with flexibility comes a savage direct debit.

I'd be testing the water for a retention offer once the minimum term is up.

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It’s my treat for 18 months of 60 hour weeks and no holidays so probably back to a RRS or Q7/8 after 6 months.

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Originally Posted by SeePee

It’s my treat for 18 months of 60 hour weeks and no holidays so probably back to a RRS or Q7/8 after 6 months.

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Fair play, we all spend our money somehow [emoji106]

I did say I'd do an update - and the Range Rover Sport P400e HSE Dynamic Black Edition (a ridiculously long moniker) arrived last week.


Early impressions - it is very, very black. Everything is black apart from the red brake calipers. It does look pretty good though - and a bit sinister...

- It is also very comfortable, the seats are superb, the air suspension ride supple and well damped, and it is a very nice place to sit in a traffic jam.

- Charging is easy - at the moment I am just using a standard three-pin (getting an actual charger fitted is unbelievably challenging - amazingly difficult). But it still charges fully in about 7.5 hours, so easy overnight.

- Range on pure electric is 25 miles absolute max - realistically I am getting about 21-22 - which just about covers my round trip commute - and that was my priority and focus.

- It is powerful (400bhp), but the more relaxed driving experience (compared to my previous Merc GLC 300D Coupe) is veyr different - the Merc was definitely more sporty and handled better - but the ride was incredibly harsh and uncomfortable.

- The interior is very nice, and some of the tech is excellent - the stereo is the top of the line Meridian Surround Sound system and sounds superb. The screens are good, but getting them set how you like is a bit fiddly. The screens immediately get covered in finger prints and aren't always that quick to respond. The sat nav isn't as good as the Merc's augmented reality system.

- The reversing camera gets dirty, unlike the very clever Merc one that was hidden behind the badge which opened when needed and kept the camera spotless - I didn't have to clean it in two years!

- The boot isn't quite as big as I'd hoped or expected upon reflection, but a huge improvement on the Merc's which was absurdly shallow.


So overall, so far I like it, it looks good, is very comfortable, drives pretty well (but is definitely not really very "sporty"), the tech is good but not class leading, fit and finish very good, and driving position excellent. The EV capability is limited - but provided most of your journeys are local and short it should work fine and be sufficient, although it would have been good if they could have got a genuine 30miles range out of it.

If you are considering one, or another plug in hybrid, I'm happy to take any questions, and I will update this thread again in a month or two once I have properly lived with the car.


Carwow have just posted one of their excellent comparative reviews of it here (it's the exact model I have as far as I can tell) vs a Bentley Bentayga (which is twice the price).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pQoUk4VOx4