ETA 251.272 Date Ring - Anyone know of where I can get one?

I have a Victorinox 24668 chronograph that I am trying to coax back into life.

When purchased the existing 251.272 movement was broken - the chronograph works but not the regular hour/minute/second.

Rather replacing the coils (which may not be the actual problem) I have sourced a spare 251.272 movement, however it has the 3 o'clock date ring.

I was planning on swapping over the date ring from the old movement, which is at 4 o'clock and "internal, horizontal" (i.e. the dates on the date wheel are towards the inside of the date ring itself, and offset so that the date reads "horizontally" through the window at 4 o'clock rather than at an angle) however on removing the dial I have found that the existing date wheel is badly scarred.

https://i.imgur.com/QeiYXRr.jpg?1

As a result I have to go to plan B, which means either a replacement date wheel or - worst case - a replacement movement with the correct date wheel.

I have had a look at Cousins but they only have the full 251.272 movement with the inclined date at 4 o'clock, which I am presuming is not the right one?

Alternatively they do have the correct format date wheel but for a 251.262.

> Date Ring 4H Black Figures on White Background, Internal, Horizontal (2557.1), ETA 251.262 (Cousins part number ETA25126225571BW4)

I believe that the date rings are interchangeable between the 251.252, 251.262 and 251.272, but can anyone be kind enough to actually confirm this?

That’s not scarred WG...this is a scarred 251.262 date wheel :
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...11d08501f3.jpg

From a post I made about 3 or 4 years ago.

I bought my replacement from Cousins. I wanted a date wheel for a 251.272 which is what a Tissot PR50 J178/278 from the early 90s uses. What they supplied had the product code ‘ETA25126225571BW4’ and was called ‘ETA 251.262 2557.1 Date Ring 4 o'clock Black Figures on White Background, Intern’

You can see the new one next to the old one above. It fitted perfectly.

Disclaimer: I am categorically not a watchmaker, just took a chance on a watch that was already wrecked.

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Originally Posted by alfat33

That’s not scarred WG...this is a scarred 251.262 date wheel :
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...11d08501f3.jpg

From a post I made about 3 or 4 years ago.

I bought my replacement from Cousins. I wanted a date wheel for a 251.272 which is what a Tissot PR50 J178/278 from the early 90s uses. What they supplied had the product code ‘ETA25126225571BW4’ and was called ‘ETA 251.262 2557.1 Date Ring 4 o'clock Black Figures on White Background, Intern’

You can see the new one next to the old one above. It fitted perfectly.

Disclaimer: I am categorically not a watchmaker, just took a chance on a watch that was already wrecked.

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Super, thank you! Exactly the information I was after.

I now have one on order from Cousins.

One other question if I may?

Do you recall what position the crown had to be when for removing the stem? I have read both that the crown should be all the way in, and all the way out.

Looking through the little aperture where you insert the pointed stick to remove the stem doesn't help, as there's no little lever that appears like on a Seiko :-(

With the old movement I left the crown fully in and the stem came out fine, but I would appreciate knowing the correct position for sure.

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Not sure I’ve understood this, what exactly are you wanting?

I have a scrap movement with a good date ring but I don’t know whether it matches.

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Apologies Paul, my original post was a bit rambling.

I was after a replacement date ring for an ETA 251.272 that would match the format of the scarred one in the photo I originally posted.

Following alfat33's post, however, it seems the date ring for the 251.262 can be substituted for that on the 251.272, so I have ordered a new one of those from Cousins.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by willie_gunn

Apologies Paul, my original post was a bit rambling.

I was after a replacement date ring for an ETA 251.272 that would match the format of the scarred one in the photo I originally posted.

Following alfat33's post, however, it seems the date ring for the 251.262 can be substituted for that on the 251.272, so I have ordered a new one of those from Cousins.

Thanks.

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Ah, I deleted my post because I’d completely misunderstood!

Surprised the date ring’s available separately thesedays. I replaced one of these movements recently and I vaguely recollect swapping date wheels over because what I was sent had the wrong one. It can get confusing. Coils are available but without the correct test equipment to diagnose whether one is faulty it’s not worth trying to replace them and spending money to no avail, biting the bullet and buying a new movement is better. Swapping the date wheels over isn’t too difficult.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Ah, I deleted my post because I’d completely misunderstood!

Surprised the date ring’s available separately these days. I replaced one of these movements recently and I vaguely recollect swapping date wheels over because what I was sent had the wrong one. It can get confusing. Coils are available but without the correct test equipment to diagnose whether one is faulty it’s not worth trying to replace them and spending money to no avail, biting the bullet and buying a new movement is better. Swapping the date wheels over isn’t too difficult.

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Agreed. The description of the various date ring options is totally confusing, particularly for an amateur like me!

There are options for 3 o'clock, 4 o'clock (inclined, trapezoid, horizontal, etc) and 6 o'clock, as well as options for having the dates internal/external on the date ring, and then all the various colour options on top. None of this is helped by many of the different part descriptions being accompanied by the same stock photo! Oh that ETA had produced a simple document showing the different date ring configurations accompanied by standardised descriptions.

However hopefully the new date ring will turn up tomorrow and I can compare it to the existing one.

That should then leave me with a spare "3 o'clock, white on black, external" date ring from the replacement movement I bought should anyone be able to make use of it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Ah, I deleted my post because I’d completely misunderstood!

Surprised the date ring’s available separately thesedays. I replaced one of these movements recently and I vaguely recollect swapping date wheels over because what I was sent had the wrong one. It can get confusing. Coils are available but without the correct test equipment to diagnose whether one is faulty it’s not worth trying to replace them and spending money to no avail, biting the bullet and buying a new movement is better. Swapping the date wheels over isn’t too difficult.

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Paul

Do you happen to know the answer to my other question regarding stem removal on the 251.272? What position should the crown be in when removing the stem?

I did have a look at the ETA documentation for this movement but it didn't really help.

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Originally Posted by willie_gunn

Super, thank you! Exactly the information I was after.

I now have one on order from Cousins.

One other question if I may?

Do you recall what position the crown had to be when for removing the stem? I have read both that the crown should be all the way in, and all the way out.

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I recall that I pulled the crown all the way out before releasing the stem. It was a while ago and I spent ages looking on the web. I think I eventually found a service diagram, I’ll see if I can find it.

Easy for Paul to say changing the date wheel isn’t hard :). I tried for about a week, alternating different combinations of which of the three retainers to remove/replace. Bugger of a job with my clumsy hands and cheap tweezers made out of plasticene. Got there in the end.

I hope my advice works out for you!

Here you go, it was on the Cousins website. More of a parts diagram/list, but it does have some information on the order in which to assemble/disassemble parts. Page 5 seems to confirm that the date wheel is common to both movements.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/PDF/catego...20part%201.pdf

Quote:

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Originally Posted by willie_gunn

Paul

Do you happen to know the answer to my other question regarding stem removal on the 251.272? What position should the crown be in when removing the stem?

I did have a look at the ETA documentation for this movement but it didn't really help.

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Can’t remember, but you can usually work it out by trying different positions till the part you depress is visible. That’s how I do it when faced with a quartz movement.

Be very careful not to damage the coils whilst handling the movement!

Superb, thank you.

Note to self - keep a close eye on the date ring retainers and wrote down which order they are removed/replaced!


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

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Originally Posted by willie_gunn

Superb, thank you.

Note to self - keep a close eye on the date ring retainers and wrote down which order they are removed/replaced!


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

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Digital camera is your friend! I take pics and load ‘em on my computer. I’ve got lots filed, I still refer to them when required.

Handling these tiny screws is easier using Rodico. Also be sure that your tweezers are in good condition, and the points are meeting correctly. I dress mine with a slight flat on the points, I find it helps for picking small parts up provided you hold them vertically.

Finger cots and pegwood are essential items, I use finger cots when a ‘helping hand’ is required, but wouldn’t dream of wearing them for long.

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Digital camera is your friend! I take pics and load ‘em on my computer. I’ve got lots filed, I still refer to them when required.

Handling these tiny screws is easier using Rodico. Also be sure that your tweezers are in good condition, and the points are meeting correctly. I dress mine with a slight flat on the points, I find it helps for picking small parts up provided you hold them vertically.

Finger cots and pegwood are essential items, I use finger cots when a ‘helping hand’ is required, but wouldn’t dream of wearing them for long.

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"...and the points are meeting correctly".

I learned just exactly that from my mistakes this week.

I recently acquired a Citizen chronograph (3510-H04392) that was advertised as "just needing a new battery". Inevitably it transpired that there were other faults, including a stem that had broken off at the edge of the movement and a loose pusher that had lost its retaining plastic c-clip.

Having ordered the relevant parts I then set about my attempt to repair it. Having seen the tiny c-clip spring through the air a score or more times I duly realised that my tweezers were no longer "true". Whether I had dropped them at some time I don't know, but the result was that the grip on the c-clip was not what it should be. Fortunately I had taken your earlier advice and the watch was in a large transparent plastic bag, so the c-clip wasn't lost. With only two in the pack and at over a tenner a shot, losing one would have been painful!

In the end I resorted to a tiny dab of Rodico on the end of a spring bar tool. The Rodico let me orientate the c-clip onto the relevant part of the pusher, whilst the notch let me then push it home. Job done!

Having sorted out the problems and replaced the crystal the watch turned out okay in the end:

https://i.imgur.com/dXBjzDp.jpg

Even the "rapid advance" hands work as they should. The only thing that doesn't seem to work is that the alarm doesn't sound, but that's hardly the end of the world.

Sounds like you’re making good progress. The trick is to anticipate when a part could make a bid for freedom and if in doubt get the plastic bag out!

I’m pleased to learn you’ve taken my advice on that one, it’s my standard procedure thesedays if there’s a risk of parts getting lost.

One of the biggest challenges you’ll face is replacing an Incabloc spring if it comes out. Having learned the hard way I recently changed my technique for opening these up to get end jewels out, I now support the pivoting end of the spring with a piece of pegwood to avoid it springing.

Keep at it, if you need advice I’m always happy to help.

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Coils are available but without the correct test equipment to diagnose whether one is faulty it’s not worth trying to replace them and spending money to no avail, biting the bullet and buying a new movement is better.

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Years ago before I invested in a dedicated quartz movement tester I used to use a £5 ebay multimeter for testing coils.

By using the correct multimeter setting they will give the same resistance reading as a dedicated test rig.

Good advice, hadn’t thought of that, it’ll test whether a coil kaput or not.

Many thanks all for the excellent help and advice - much appreciated!

The date ring turned up yesterday and I got around to swapping it over. I laid the date ring retainers out on the worksurface so they remained aligned when I fitted the new one. That all worked great.

Then the dial was put back and the hands re-attached. Little had I appreciated beforehand how fiddly the sub-dial hands would be, but I got there in the end! I also followed the welcome advice to check that none of the hands would foul before re-assembling.

Then it just remained to re-fit the retaining screws and put the movement back in the case.

All installed, I put in a new case back gasket, sealed the back, and admired the finished result.

Not perfect (the minute counter hand is slightly off-zero, and the adjustment on this movement is not sufficiently precise to get it aligned) but as it is the first chronograph I've "fixed" I am not too unhappy with how it turned out.

https://i.imgur.com/XpGCedJ.jpg

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

One of the biggest challenges you’ll face is replacing an Incabloc spring if it comes out.

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I think before I even anticipate repairs like that I will need invest in a "proper" watch repair course from the BHI. Doubtless my current efforts would make the purist wince, but I find I am getting far more pleasure from returning a cheap watch to life than from buying new and expensive watches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by walkerwek1958

Keep at it, if you need advice I’m always happy to help.

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Thank you Paul - and the others here who have been so free with their advice. It is very much appreciated and is what makes this site special.

Very nice WG, looks great. I reset the chrono hands 3 or 4 times I think, trying to get them right. You did pretty well first time out!

Fingers crossed it runs for a long time for you. I certainly came away with a much greater appreciation of this movement and quartz movements in general when I worked on mine.

Thank you for the kind words. I am pretty ham-fisted generally, so achieving this was very satisfying.

I hadn't realised beforehand how finicky the chrono hands would be, thinking also that they would move more "smoothly" when realigning. As it turns out the graduations are quite coarse.

What I like about this movement is the rapid hour advance to change the date. As I travel a lot this will be useful when setting the local time (other than India, etc).

I already have my next project in front of me - an Orient 48743 automatic.

It was bought as a non-runner and it turns out that a screw had come loose from the automatic train bridge and was fouling the balance wheel. Replacing the screw saw the watch spring back into life - and accuracy wise it is running well. However this movement doesn't allow a manual wind, and although the rotor turns freely it doesn't seem to be turning the ratchet wheel. As a result I can only "wind" the watch by turning the mainspring screw (not sure I have the terminology right). Something is clearly amiss.

That project will have to wait until the weekend, though, when I can search online for a technical document on this particular movement.

My Tissot with the same movement was the first decent watch I bought for myself. I had started travelling with work a lot and the hour hand setting really sold it to me. I actually bought it at Heathrow. It’s a really good functional watch. I also liked the horizontal date at 4.30 - for the life of me I don’t know why dates not at 3 are ever done any other way. I’m sure you will really enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by alfat33

My Tissot with the same movement was the first decent watch I bought for myself. I had started travelling with work a lot and the hour hand setting really sold it to me. I actually bought it at Heathrow. It’s a really good functional watch. I also liked the horizontal date at 4.30 - for the life of me I don’t know why dates not at 3 are ever done any other way. I’m sure you will really enjoy it.

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Agree entirely regarding the horizontal dates at 4 o'clock - they are instantly readable.´

Now when I look at my other watches where the dates are inclined at 4 o'clock simply highlights their illegibility.

The Victorinox is keeping good time so far.....

https://i.imgur.com/RitPbuu.jpg

Good stuff. It’s a nice looking watch, looks like it’s come up well with a bit of buffing?

I’m working on another at the moment. You’ve inspired me to take a lot of pictures along the way. If it all works when I put it back together then I’ll post something about it.