Or would they need the bank itself to be on-board after any fraud investigation?
Just wondering if accepting a bank transfer for a car sale is fool-proof? :)
Or would they need the bank itself to be on-board after any fraud investigation?
Just wondering if accepting a bank transfer for a car sale is fool-proof? :)
Aparently not: https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-...ment-in-the-UK
Typically a same day payment made in the UK can go via two payment routes. One is Faster Payments which tends to be smaller payments althought the limit on this has been increased to £1M. Some banks may have different in house limits for Faster Payments. The other payment network is CHAPS which there is no upper limit on.
Consumer payments will almost always go via Faster Payments - the payment is made in seconds and cannot be recalled/reversed/revoked so once the money is in your account it is cleared funds.
CHAPS payments cost much more but are also cleared funds - typical usage is for things like house purchases where your solicitor makes a CHAPS payment. CHAPS payments cannot be recalled/reversed or revoked.
If the payment is made via Faster Payments then most UK banks are pretty good now at dealing with these transactions real-time so you can make a payment from one bank to another and watch the results go through in real time with the balance updating in real time on either mobile banking apps or internet banking.
Thank you both! :)
Can you comment on BACS?Quote:
Originally Posted by chris56
Had this recently when I accidentally transferred funds into a family members account that had been closed, I tried to stop the payment through my bank almost immediately but they can't do it, the family member had to jump through quite a few hoops to get the money sent back to me.
I would say that as long as you go through one of the recognised methods of transferring money then once it shows as in your account then it's pretty safe, ( just make sure it's in the account and not pending ).
Deleted as incorrect comment provided
Yes I would not accept payment via BACS as there is a recall window. They are also not real-time same day cleared funds as are the other two payment methods I detailed.BACS transactions are submitted in batches used to be overnight but it is now done via FTP transmissions during the day of batches of payments. Value is typically credited later according to the BACS processing cycle when the receiving bank receives the file of transactions from BACS.Quote:
Originally Posted by markrlondon
This link describes the service https://www.bacs.co.uk/documentlibra...troduction.pdf
No Faster payments does not use the BACS system Faster payments uses the Link infrastructure. BACS uses the VOCA infrastructure. VOCA and Link merged and are now called VOCA-LinkQuote:
Originally Posted by joe narvey
Many thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris56
Apologies I deleted the comment, I guess not fast enough. I think the phrase is I misspoke, truth is I didn’t read the question properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris56
I seem to recall that Haywood Milton has commented that they can be reversed. No idea how but hopefully he may comment.
No problems :peaceful:- I was responding to MarkR when I noticed your post. I am normally not that quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by joe narvey
Worth mentioning that I nearly got caught by a fraudster who told me he had made a bank transfer and true enough the funds appeared on my banking app, though on closer inspection it wasn't included in the "cleared funds" balance. Turns out he had walked into a branch and paid a cheque into my account which inevitably bounced a week or so later. Luckily I queried with telephone banking why it wasn't 'cleared' before letting the watch go.
So no a money transfer cannot be reversed, but make sure it IS a money transfer by checking that it is included in your cleared funds balance.
I remember someone stating that a standing order payment can be recalled within a certain time period. I believe these are sent via Bacs. A fraudster can set up a one time SO, take an item and recall the payment.
Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using TZ-UK mobile app
So the moral of the story is to make sure the funds are 'cleared' before acknowledging any payment has been made to your account. Or have I missed a step or two out?
Sorry i am not sure this comment is helpful and is hearsay. Haywood is an expert on Rolex vintage watches - I am not sure he would put himself forward as a payment systems expert.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobc
Yes in this case the fraudster tried the cheque payin trick. It is not a money transfer. Faster payments and Chaps both deliver cleared funds which will show on your account balance as cleared funds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halitosis
Correct there is a recall window on BACS - please see my previous post on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by stefmcd
Yes you need to make sure the payment comes via CHAPS or Faster payments if it does it will show as cleared funds. Faster payments take typically seconds to transfer.There is no recall/reversal or revocation facility for either CHAPS payments or Faster payments.Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy
I’m pretty sure that HM detailed the scenario and the process involved, of which he was personally involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by chris56
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by chris56
Related question..I recently cashed out a load of premium bonds into a current account. I initiated the transfer on the NS&I website and the funds went. I got a call a day later from NS&I who said the system couldn't verify my name against the current account and my fund were now being recalled to the premium bond account which could take up to 15 days! What system will NS&I be using, how are they recalling money and why does it take so long?
I remember asking this question of Santander and they stated that once the money was in your account it couldn’t be reversed without your approval. They explained that in the event of a clawback the other persons bank would contact your bank, but they could only present you with such a request that you had to agree to it, they couldn’t just plunder your money without your approval.
Sadly I cannot offer advice on the prices of nearly new Rolex :encouragement:
That is precisely my understanding as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallasey Runner
Ok - Confirmation of Payee is part of the fraud checks which the FCA made the six largest UK banks implement, when you attempt to make a payment via Faster payments or CHAPS to a new payee not on your list of approved payees then there is a validation stage. You tell the sending bank the account name, sort code and account number of the payee you wish to send the payment to. The sending bank then sends a message in real time to the receiving bank to ask the bank to check the details i.e. does the account name match the sort code and account number. The receiving bank will send back an indication of full match, partial match etc together with the full account name. You can then check the details and amend to get a full match if appropriate. Some banks do not support this facility - for example Coutts will return an indication that they do not support this facility. Confirmation of payee does not work on BACS so yet another reason not to use BACS for certain types of payment when you want certainty and security.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian
NS&I will bank with one of the major clearers and will have probably sent a request to their clearer to pay the funds into an account name, sort code, account number they detailed from your details. For some reason, perhaps something as simple as a partial match their clearer has said the details do not match the account so the funds are being returned to NS&I. The funds were not recalled as the NS&I clearer never sent them due to this mismatch. NS&I systems are probably not that automated and returns will probably be processed manually which is why the returns take so long.
Thanks for the explanation...I spoke to customer services and indeed that's exactly whats going on!