The Panerai 190 Vs 232 Debate / Review

Most people have a little celebration at reaching 1000 posts but I thought Id break the chain and do something for my 900th Post. I had embarked on a journey with Panerai and entered into a world of debate about which is what and why and where for etc but a debate or piece of research that fancinated me was the debate over the Panerai PAM 190 & The Panerai PAM 232.
To the best of my knowledge no one has actually done an outright review or comparison, there are numerous pages and pages of ‘opinions’ but 2 types of people make most. They either form the opinion on what they have read or seen or they base their opinion on owning one of the two pieces. Now some have actually owned both and traded one for the other but in the process of doing so failed to share the information in a photographic and comparison form.
Now before we start I have to make a disclaimer type statement,
“Both these watches are absolutely amazing”
But throughout reading this you may draw a positive or negative and assume that one or the other is not that good. You can read my conclusion at the end. But for now grab a coffee and enjoy the pictures and my ramblings.
Statistics
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...16at112517.png http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...16at112558.png
Packaging
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6314.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6315.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6317.jpg
232 Packs a 30cmx30cm box compared to the 23cmx23cm 190, this is due to the addition of the scroll, booklet, locking key case and SE goodies that come with the 232. It is worth noting that the lid is heavy and the hinges can rip from the wood but are easily repaired with some wood glue or filler.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6318.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6320.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6323.jpg
The Watches
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6332.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6335.jpg
The two watches vary in width, whilst the 190 is 45mm its thicker case which house the exhibition back and JLC feels just as substantial. The 45mm case size is more wearable in general as you do need a larger wrist to pull off a 47mm, that said the 47mm sits lower and flatter!
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u.../KDG_63371.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6338.jpg
The sheer pleasure of winding the 190 with its butter smooth action and watching the rear mounted power reserve register is a pleasure, then simply pop it on ones wrist and forget about it for a week. The 232 houses the Panerai X movement, solid and reliable but no where near the JLC, which exceeds the standards required for a COSC so doesn’t bother to certificate itself as after over a 1000 hours of testing it is more accurate than the standard required by COSC.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6339.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6342.jpg
The 232 is more traditional, more pure and clean it has a 3,6,9, & 12 whereas the 190 delivers a smooth flowing gold second hand and the unique ‘8 Days’ inscription. Inside the 190 has the superior movement and its placing in Panerai history is cemented after they discontinued the model in 2006. In the secondhand arena the 190 does not appear as often as the 232, the 190 is a piece that once people own it they don’t sell (unless they have 2!!!) The 232 is a little more transient as all the SE pieces tend to be as some buyers have purchased them because they are SE and an investment and not for the right reasons.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6344.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6347.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6351.jpg
What really makes both models stand out from anything else in the Panerai / Radiomir stable is the addition of the gold hands that only appear on higher end and SE models, these just glint by day and glow by night and make both models very striking and instantly noticeable.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6354.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6356.jpg
The 190 has a black dial compared to the 232 and its more vintage brown dial, the brown and black is very close in look but the brown dial can be more pleasing to the eye in certain light conditions whereas the clean black dial is sharper and more dressy with the Panerai Black Crocodile Strap.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6360.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6362.jpg
Its hard to decide isn’t it, seeing them side by side theres not a lot in it, you find yourself justifying each of the componant parts, you know the 190 is better quality but the 232 is historic, you know the 232 is 47mm and you cant wear it everyday but it has a solid case back, as I said at the start one is not better than the other and no matter which you choose you will be 100% satisfied.
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6369.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6370.jpg
Conclusion
Joint 1st in my eyes, the deciding factor has to be the buyer, can your wrist take it, do you want pure or practical, they both deliver if like me you cant decide there is only one option………Own Both!

An excellent little write up - thanks for posting :-)

Thanks for sharing, lots of information especially for someone like me who isn't a paneristi. The 8 days wow that movement

Thanks for posting, great comparson and shots.
Lovely movement in the eight-days 8)

Cheers,

Daddel.

Nice work.
190 wins all day for me.

Thanks for the great review. Both are fantastic watches but, after trying on both, my money went with the 232 because of the cleaner dial. To my eyes the second hand on the 190 looks like it's in the "wrong" place, obviously due to the use of the superior JLC movement. I already owned a 111 and had no problems with the movement in the 232. I only have 6.5" wrists but reckon I can still get away with the 47mm.

As with your conclusion, to the question 232 vs. 190, there is no wrong answer! :D

Superb way to celebrate your 900th post! Great info and amazing photos made that an enjoyable 10 mintue read many thanks for brightening up my dull friday afternon!

Great write up, sounds silly but I think the 190 more dressy.
Would I go for 232, probably. :)

Best
Graham

thanks for the excellent write up, 190 however always wins imho

great! Thanks a lot! :bounce:

Excellent post/comparison - thanks - 190 for me! :lol:

Great write up and pics :D Having seen that I'd have the 190 for the 8 day reserve, second hand and display back.

The 190 is far superior in my mind, the 232 is a basic homage that Panerai have put together with pretty much existing parts, it's nothing like the original and no amount of fluff or large presentation boxes is going to make it anymore than a 210 with a bigger case and gold hands.

The 190 is just everything that is right, it has the best movement for the watch and that's the big difference, and the reason i'd choose it, plus at 45mm it's a better fit.

I'll go with the 190 purely for the horological joy that is the 8 day power reserve movement. One of the most Zen moments of the day is hand-winding and seeing the power reserve indicator rise on my JLC.

Nice write up Kerry :)

I'm still undecided. I agree with everything that's been said about the movement in the 190 being nicer, but the cleaner dial and lack of the seconds on the 232 mean I prefer the look of that watch. Problem is, I know I'd probably buy a 232 and then spend forever thinking that the 190 has the nicer movement :(

great write-up, thanks for sharing!
i have both the 232 and the 190, and I will take the 190 over the 232 anytime
...the winding of the 190 itself is a joy to experience :mrgreen:

I'm drawn to both (confirmed by my WTB) but other than the fact they're both Radiomirs by name, there is no similarity imo.

The 232 draws from the past and historic Panerai's and is a reasonably near facsimilie of the original pieces. Unitas powered now maybe, but there's nothing wrong with those, is there.

The 190 has no historic merit from a Panerai point of view but does have a lovely motor inside it. The small seconds and script does detract a little when compared to the 232 or even the 210 dial, again imo.

Both are nice in very different ways, Have i a personal preference? Yes.

Putting the price to one side, the 232 is more of a Panerai imo and that's what i would opt for if both were in front of me with appropriate price tags.

Would i be happy to pay £5-5500 for a 232? No! but it doesn't mean i wouldn't. Would i spend similar money on a 190? yes, because of the motor. I see one as a dress watch, the other as a tool watch. They're quite different as a result in my eyes.

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowman

The 190 has no historic merit from a Panerai point of view but does have a lovely motor inside it.
:)

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Well history is defined as 'The past events relating to a particular thing' and the inclusion of the JLC is now part of Panerai history, it happened in the past and wont happen again, true its not 1930's history but history no less.

I wanted to review the 2 of them as an owner to allow individuals to make a personal choice and hopefully this will inform their decision but to be sure you have to own them, live with them, dress them, and polish them, then decide!

Beautiful watches Panerai are but a little quirky???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 100thmonkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowman

The 190 has no historic merit from a Panerai point of view but does have a lovely motor inside it.
:)

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Well history is defined as 'The past events relating to a particular thing' and the inclusion of the JLC is now part of Panerai history, it happened in the past and wont happen again, true its not 1930's history but history no less.

I wanted to review the 2 of them as an owner to allow individuals to make a personal choice and hopefully this will inform their decision but to be sure you have to own them, live with them, dress them, and polish them, then decide!

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Living with something either makes or breaks the original decision. Based on the flippers here that's confirmed :)

I don't agree, though i'm not emotional about the point you make with JLC and Panerai, being in the same group of companies now. Whilst they are and both these watches were produced by that parent organisation. The 232's 'history' links directly back to the Pre V days. The 190, in my opinion, is not directly connected in the same way, other than sharing a Radiomir case design. I'm happy to agree, to disagree 8)

Both are nice things to own but both are quite different.

Great write up. Both great watches but something about this one means it just pips the 232 to the line for me.....

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...k/DSC01818.jpg

I agree with Baz's points, its a shame that the 190 did not have a tobacco dial.

A good write up, both excellent watches, I gravitate towards the 190 simply because I think there is something magical about 8 day movements!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowman

I'm drawn to both (confirmed by my WTB) but other than the fact they're both Radiomirs by name, there is no similarity imo.

The 232 draws from the past and historic Panerai's and is a reasonably near facsimilie of the original pieces. Unitas powered now maybe, but there's nothing wrong with those, is there.

The 190 has no historic merit from a Panerai point of view but does have a lovely motor inside it. The small seconds and script does detract a little when compared to the 232 or even the 210 dial, again imo.

Both are nice in very different ways, Have i a personal preference? Yes.

Putting the price to one side, the 232 is more of a Panerai imo and that's what i would opt for if both were in front of me with appropriate price tags.

Would i be happy to pay £5-5500 for a 232? No! but it doesn't mean i wouldn't. Would i spend similar money on a 190? yes, because of the motor. I see one as a dress watch, the other as a tool watch. They're quite different as a result in my eyes.

:)

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Exactly, dress watch vs toolwatch.

But having tried the 232 compared to the 3646 they do not remotely give the same feeling on the
wrist.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...01-1Medium.jpg


How can they :)

Very nice post. I'm still in love with the 190. Putting the power reserve on the back is simply genius.

Does anybody know which other makes utilizes the JLC 8 days movement? JLC themselves I would guess but anybody else?

Cheers,
Mabuse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by radyo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowman

I'm drawn to both (confirmed by my WTB) but other than the fact they're both Radiomirs by name, there is no similarity imo.

The 232 draws from the past and historic Panerai's and is a reasonably near facsimilie of the original pieces. Unitas powered now maybe, but there's nothing wrong with those, is there.

The 190 has no historic merit from a Panerai point of view but does have a lovely motor inside it. The small seconds and script does detract a little when compared to the 232 or even the 210 dial, again imo.

Both are nice in very different ways, Have i a personal preference? Yes.

Putting the price to one side, the 232 is more of a Panerai imo and that's what i would opt for if both were in front of me with appropriate price tags.

Would i be happy to pay £5-5500 for a 232? No! but it doesn't mean i wouldn't. Would i spend similar money on a 190? yes, because of the motor. I see one as a dress watch, the other as a tool watch. They're quite different as a result in my eyes.

:)

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Exactly, dress watch vs toolwatch.

But having tried the 232 compared to the 3646 they do not remotely give the same feeling on the
wrist.

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n...01-1Medium.jpg


How can they :)

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:drunken:

You bring up an excellent point, the 232 and 3646 can't compare but in its own right the 232 is an excellent piece.

The uniqueness is also what makes the 190 interesting IMO, its got relative to other PAMs quite a random movement in the JLC. The 190 for me was one of the first PAMs to show a new direction for Panerai in terms of movement :) .

Both are lovely watches. However the 232 is a knock off of the Pam 21 which was a knock off of the 3436. At least my VDB is just a knock off :D

The PAM 190 is just wrong - wrong case size and wrong movement. I would not kick it out of bed, however with that dial it just needs to be in a 47mm luminor case with 8 Giorni Brevettato printed on it and an Angelus movement - so a Pam 203 then :( I do something wonder how long Panerai can keep recreating their past. Wish they would come up with something new - hence why I like the Slytechs.

However if I were to keep one it would be the 232 (irrespective of the movement) on the basis that this reflects Panerai history where as the 190 a money making machine - nothing wrong with that I suppose but not my bag.

IMHO of course.

Great review by the way.

Andy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andyg

Both are lovely watches. However the 232 is a knock off of the Pam 21
needs to be in a 47mm luminor case with 8 Giorni Brevettato printed on it and an Angelus movement - so a Pam 203 then
Andy

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And a Pam 21? $200,000 or a 203 $100,000 - Not really a comparison to these 2!!! But Id love to read a review / comparison of the watches you named

I've been trying to avoid looking at Rads, so as not to be tempted......and you're not helping :lol:

I am probably a bit of a philistine when it comes to Panerai - I like what I like regardless of how true it is to some earlier model, whether it has a centre second hand, or whether it is 47, 44 or even 40mm.
Out of these two I love the slimmer and simpler look of the 232, but know I could not get away with the width :(

As said in my previous post a great little write up. Both are beautiful pieces in different ways.

232 - i like the fact it has 'history', a very clean dial, the fact the case has quite a slim profile. I dont particularly like the movement used - though it does the job - no doubt. I also think 47mm is just too big for me - but thats just my personal opinion.

190 - i like the seconds dial though it does detract from the overall cleanness of the dial, i like the movement, the sapphire case back. I dont particularly like the bulkier case profile due to the sapphire back though i do prefer the 45mm case. Also - and i dont know why - i just dont think the '8 days' lettering looks right :?

I'd love to own either of these pieces but i couldnt see myself ever buying one for the simple reason they have all polished cases - i'm just not a fan of that look at all. I really hope Panerai release some Rad's with brushed cases in the next year or two - fingers crossed for SIHH 2010.

I do however like the PAM 292 (black ceramic) and also the 309 (black dial, brushed titanium case) and 322 (tobacco dial, brushed titanium case) - although the latter two pieces mentioned here are in a completely different league in terms of pricing :shock: Well worth hitting google images to have a look at them though - very nice pieces with a very different look to the all polished Rads.

Both look beautiful and I'd happily own either (funds permitting) but I suspect 47mm would look too big for me. Your write up was great.

A little tipsy on return from the pub bit thank you for all the comments its been worth the effort, I am quite taken by the reception it had on Paneristi.
I took the time and efffort to photograph the watches and wish Id spent more time writing! I dont have the skill to make a watch or its strap nor the intellect to discuss the finer points of Horology, But it will come, so a few thank you's

Dom over at Paneristi for educating me
Toshi for the straps
Flea (Andrew) the sounding board for my boredom
Eddie for the facility to vent my opinion
And numerous others who inadvertently have inspired debate

This is one of many reviews / adventures!

L.T.D.

Keep them coming I say. Interesting and informative.

Andy

Radiomir's are very nice, but there's just not enough of a diiference here to have both imo. :)

Great write up - thanks for taking the time and for sharing it. Probably the 190 although I can see that owning both would save a lot of agonising.

I love that 8 day power reserve.
If I could, I would have one...

I met up with Kerry this lunchtime for some food & chat about watches, and he had (very thoughtfully) brought the 190 and 232 along so I had an opportunity to have a play with them both.

Until this point I was convinced that the larger size, lack of seconds register and thinner case of the 232 would mean it was the one I preferred. Unfortunately I've had to think again after wearing the 190 for a while, as it's a stunning watch.

The watch does wear slightly smaller, but at 45mm it's hardly a shrinking violet. The thicker case was actually something I liked about the watch v the 232 (which I was suprised about), but the thing that suprised me most was that I didn't notice the seconds dial instead of the "9". This is not good, because I now think I want one :(

The icing on the cake however was that Kerry had allowed the 190 to run down just so I could give it a full wind, and I can report it is as smooth as silk :bounce:

So I have now changed my mind and of the two I think the 190 wins out. Damn! Just when I thought I was safe :D

Great comparison. The 190 does it for me.. maybe one day. I still kick myself for not getting the 232 that I had in my hand in Selfridges.

lovely write up Kerry. Given an almost rabid like attraction to JLC it would have to be the 190 for me. That movement with the saphire back and the gold hands make for a nigh on perfect combination in my book.

I was sorely tempted by the one on SC recently but am holding out to my plan :)

Fantastic review and great pictures. Very enlightening for someone who knows so little about Panerai. My preference would be the 190, just prefer the smaller case and 8 day feature. What's one of these worth?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by burrotaxi

What's one of these worth?

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Good question, what ever one will pay, but finding it is the difficult bit, parting with the cash is easy!!!!!

Great write up and excellent pictures. It's really interesting to see these two watches side by side. Having said that, IMHO if forced to choose between these two I would grab the 190 and never look back. The JLC 8 day movement really sets this watch apart. I also prefer the slightly smaller size, will not own a watch that doesn't have a second hand, and like the clear case back. Finally, the 190 is highly coveted among Paneristi, very collectible and not being made any more. Not sure what the current asking price is on this watch, but assuming it's not totally astronomical, I doubt you would lose money buying one. Except for its cost, and the fact that it looks very similar to the 183, which I own, if I was going to buy another PAM, the 190 would definitely be it.

I hope you enjoy both watches and appreciate how fortunate you are to own 2 such beautiful examples of the Panerai line. :)

As time has gone by I do prefer the look, size, and Ltd 232. But the 190 is still a gem

Im just in the process of selling my 232 to fund a roadtrip. If you cant wear it - ride it so to speak!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by swatch

Nice work.
190 wins all day for me.

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...and me. struggling to think of a reason to go for the 232.

Nice thread to be resurrected...

Not really been into Panerai, but now wondering...

I used to drink when I wrote that!

But its still very true, personally Id go 232 after reflecting for 2 years on it

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/KDG_6354.jpg

Every time I see photo's like this I think I must wear my 210 more

Well after a short absence she is home safe, Mr 190 is in good hands too!

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/P1030217.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/P1030179.jpg
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u...2/P1030176.jpg

Beautiful watches, if they were only made in 40 or 42mm... :?

I have been on the list for a titanium Radiomir 42mm (PAM338) for over a year and now I was told last week that they have stopped producing them...

The 190 wins it for me, I like the 8 days writing and the 8 day movement is simply amazing