Will they get the bank treatment with a bale out or will their 17,000 staff be in the employment exchange next week. Not a good situation whatever the outcome
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Will they get the bank treatment with a bale out or will their 17,000 staff be in the employment exchange next week. Not a good situation whatever the outcome
Highly unlikely any of the 17000 will lose their jobs, unless the Gov want to close prisons, operating theatres, etc - so their jobs will TUPE over to whoever takes over responsibility.
Those much more likely to lose their jobs are the senior management and those in marketing and tresuary departments. Shame!
The company is a cash cow with lots of assets and guaranteed income,so once the pension issue is resolved (I.e. By the tax payer), then other companies will come knocking.
I sincerely hope those in the accounts dept don’t get paid and see how they like it, we used to do a lot of contracts for Carrilion and not once did they pay on time ever. They also had the unwritten rule that if you took them to court for late payment you would never do work for them again, finally pushed me too far and I severed all ties couldn’t happen to a nicer mob imo.
I’m on a trade type Facebook group and there are loads of guys with the same story ^
More often not will be getting screwed by the end client. Agree this shouldn't be passed on to subcontractors though.
Considering that a large part of their work is for the government in one form or another ,it defies belief that no one from the clients management team has conducted "Due diligence tests" on their financial affairs and standing before awarding any contracts.
Did they blame Brexit yet? ;)
As an ex-Carillion shareholder, they can go bust for all I care.
As someone who has run a small business for 12 years now without going into debt and always paying our customers on time etc, it always amazes me how such big businesses can get into such a financial mess. Clearly something has not been right there for a very long time.
One problem with facilities management I perceive is that measuring performance against a contract is very difficult.
You can pay low, pay right or pay high and the performance could be poor, adequate or superb and it can be exceptionally difficult to know whereabouts in that matrix you are.
Some companies bid high with no real intention of performing high.
Some companies bid low with no ability after that of performing anything other than low.
It’s a nightmare tendering these contracts especially when the performance at the end of the day more comes down to the ability, experience, motivation and diligence of the people on the ground rather than the suits discussing and deciding the price and cost.
I have only worked on one project that involved Carillion and they were spectacularly crap so none of this surprises me.
Mrs Goat let a lot of work to them over the years (local govt)
None of this is surprising her!
They've never been the same since they changed their name. The construction arm of the company was professional in all respects except for their accounts dept.
It looks like a lot of its woes stem from the acquisition of Sir Alfred McAlpine.
My step son is a Quantity surveyor and project manager who worked for Carillion until about 6 years ago. he got sick of the hassle and time he had to waste trying to keep suppliers and contractors on board when they weren't getting paid. As I say, he left them and hasn't looked back.
It was Alfred macalpines we originally worked for until carrilion bought them out, in 5 years working for macalpines we where paid late once due to an admin error and they did all they could to rectify it we got paid within the same week. As soon as carillion took over the problems started as I said earlier they’re famous for doing it but so big it’s hard to not do work for them some times. I just hope those working in accounts get shafted for their wages and lose all their pension etc couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people.
Oops double post
With one notable exception, all supermarkets (and sheds - the DIY stores) treat their suppliers appallingly.
The exception is the John Lewis Partnership.
^ This. And not just here. They are the same across Europe, and Wal-Mart is even worse.
I have always kept clear of Carrilion as they are the worst payers ever. Most contractors I know used to tell me it was not unusual for them to get paid only twice in a year. I work for two of the major construction firms in the UK and my payment terms are 4O days and they stick to it.
One thing that might swing the Government into a bail out is, with the amount of new NHS and other Public Sector contracts that are ongoing they would be Novated to other Contractors who would charge mega amounts to get the projects over the line.
Carillion will have signed the Prompt Payment Code. They will expect to be payed on time and pay their sub-suppliers on time and SMEs within 30 days. Industry self-regulation and codes don’t have teeth do they.
I guess they just got too big for their capabilities. These big projects and outsourcing deals are hard to specify and tender, hard to bid in the time given, hard to evaluate and select, end up with overly complex contracts and are hard to contract manage. Lots of opportunities for things to go wrong.
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Private profits, public debt. Tax avoidance. Management paid huge sums "because we need to recruit the best" but seemingly never responsible when things go bad. Is it any surprise that we end up with Carillion / G4S / Crapita / Virgin / Stagecoach / Southern / etc.
All these type of companies are turds my Mrs has had experience of them in the nhs they take over parts of the public sector cut all the staffs pay and conditions treat them like sh-t then then fu-- up what ever they take over then walk away laughing, then an even worse one takes over where they left off, but it's privately run so must be better.
Loved "Kayleigh" and "Lavender", but otherwise.............
Not my favourites :smug:
That’s another death knell for these conglomerates when they come up with stupid ‘corporate affairs’ or computer generated names. Carillion! British engineering and construction companies used to have proper names: Fairclough, McAlpine, Mowlem, Tarmac, Balfour Beatty, Babcock not poncey French sounding names like Carillion. Skanska? Vinci?
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Carillion up the Khyber
Their naff corporate logo always made me think of a dripping tap !
http://www.fmj.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...llion-Logo.jpg
[emoji106]Curta & Seiko
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Breaking news, and the BBC are getting over-excited and confused between Liquidation and Administration. But it's one of those two.
It's early in the morning.
Liquidation it seems to be and it is unsurprising!
Listen carefully, listen and you will hear the distant thunder of the feet of grotesquely overpaid and consistently underperforming Carillion senior management stampeding for cover.:disgust:
It is the unpaid small suppliers and the workers at the sharp end I feel sorry for, not to mention the taxpayers! Cesspits are too good for the Carillion directors and the HMG civil servants who have recently awarded major contracts to Carillion. Due diligence? Don’t make me laugh!:biggrin-new:
The accountants have been called in, so we can all relax.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42687032
Carillion to go into liquidation ....
Indeed. Does anybody think that some senior Ministers of State might be spending more time with their families as a result of this omnishambles?
I feel genuinely sorry for the accountants who will have to fight their way through the smoke and mirrors to get to the bottom of this.
I had an interview for a procurement job with Carillion just over a year ago. The woman interviewing me was possibly the nastiest person I have ever come across during an interview and I walked away thinking "how does a company like that survive with people like her in charge"? Looks like I have my answer.
I don’t. Fees from the likes of PwC, EY etc will be enormous. A very lucrative contract for one of the big firms.
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I don't know Carillion but I know a few big companies that have a lot of Government contracts - "public sector outsourcing". The trouble for them starts with the Government - the Government behaves like the big supermarkets in that it gives the contract but then insists on cheaper and cheaper renewal terms until it becomes unprofitable but the supplier is then reliant on that contract.
The irony for one of the companies I know is that the only way it is keeping its head above water on these Government contracts is to offshore as much as possible to India and make large number of UK employees redundant. I'm sure it isn't the only company in that position and it doesn't feel like a sustainable business model for the UK as a whole.
I don't understand how any company can continue to trade with debts/liabilities of £1.5 billion. I suppose a decent wedge of liabilities will be to HMRC but how do they get bank loans if they have no assets?
Eddie