Ok, this is a bit deep, but...

Have we peaked as a civilization and is it all downhill from here?

I'm by no means an expert on this and I may just be getting old and cynical but I can't help but feel we have.

Social media has killed off human interaction. People in the same room tweeting each other.

Grammar is dead. U wot m8

Young people are losing the ability to communicate face to face. See point one.

Almost every week I learn of a new form of depravity. The last one was a guy taking a selfie with a dead woman on the railway tracks.

Antibiotics seem to be losing their effectiveness.

Cancer seems out of control.

We're sucking the life out of the planet at an unsustainable rate.

Global warming

Plastic islands

Species of animal and insect going extinct before we've even really learned anything about them.

Mass immigration

Love island

The list goes on, but I can't help but feel it's all downhill from here.

What's everyone's thoughts?

Perhaps more importantly, the quality of lower end Seiko's has dropped considerably.

And you cant get a PP for love nor money

I think Talking Heads summed it up well. “We’re on a road to nowhere.”


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

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Originally Posted by EchoSevenNine

Young people are losing the ability to communicate face to face. See point one.

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I don't see this in my 15yo. He is as hooked up to his phone as his peers but they often get together, have a good laugh, goto the beach, play football etc and it all looks pretty healthy to me.

Not disagreeing, however, that we may have reached peak humanity.

If, and its a big if, we can get a handle on the environment we might be ok. The thing is, the fact that more and more of us are noticing the things you mention is a good thing. If it follows that we do something about it, inform and encourage the next generation, nurture the generation after that we may very well nip it in the bud. We can't undo the damage that we have done but we can try to stop it continuing.

If we don't act, don't change things in society and we continue to take the piss, i have every faith the Mother Nature or Darwinism will put things right again. Things will change and change has to happen. It may not be pleasant, infact it may be catastrophic but i have faith that shit will sort itself out if we don't.

This thread has cheered me up!

I do think you have a point OP, in fact lots of points. In many ways, things have gone too far.

Its all about the have's and have not's https://inequality.org/facts/global-inequality/


and I still cant get a new pepsi

Have to say, I don't agree at all and think much of that reeks heavily of the rose-tinted variety of nostalgia:

Social media is a very complex issue. I think it masks loneliness but it's certainly not curbing real-life interaction as far as I can see (I'm saying this from the perspective of a millennial).

Grammar is dead? Just not true, covert-prestige in 'anti-grammar' has existed as long as language has. In fact the thing I notice about many baby boomers is that they hold a prescriptive view of grammar and pronunciation whilst failing to live up to their own high standards... I've lost count of the number of weddings I attended in my teens where the groom's speech began with 'on behalf of my wife and *I*'. If you can't get something as basic as subject and object pronouns correct then you should tread more carefully in your glass house.

Re depravity - Really? It's in our nature, humans are pretty disgusting at base level as history makes clear, we have done a pretty good job (though much to be done yet) in socialising these tendencies out of people, the difference is now that one person somewhere in the world can carry out a depraved act and modern (social) media makes sure every other person in the world will see that the incident has occured. Also, as a general rule, murder, rape, sexual abuse, war and violence as a whole have been and continue to be on a downward trajectory.

Antibiotics - I genuine problem I think.

Cancer - it's only because people are now living long enough to eventually contract it and that we're able to identify and cure most the other illnesses, which would have just killed people earlier or pulled them into such a low state that the cancer they may have been hosting goes unnoticed or without attention.

Completely agree with the environmental issues. The first thing people should do if they do care is stop eating meat (and secondarily, dairy) but they'd rather convince themselves that it's not the largest factor so they can carry on enjoying themselves in their self-imposed ignorance.

I put this down to my age, but I must be honest, I feel sad for how things are today.

Yesterday was 'National Selfie day' apparently. Sigh.

The 'selfie' the OP mentions says it all. Horrible. A lot of 'selfies' are just photos. Of people and their friends. That annoys me.

I don't like where we're going with AI, car automation is wrong. it feels like we develop things because they were in a sci-fi movie. not because we need them.

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Social media has killed off human interaction. People in the same room tweeting each other.

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I think generally the internet and mobiles keeps people in closer contact than before , organising social meetups and corresponding is a lot easier now ( I remember writing letters). I work abroad a lot but feel I maintain contact with my kids quite well because of it.

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Grammar is dead. U wot m8

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Always been those people who ignore grammar. I've got relatives in their 80s with terrible grammar.

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Young people are losing the ability to communicate face to face. See point one.

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Compared with the desert of communication activities I grew up with I actually think today's generation are more gregarious.

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Almost every week I learn of a new form of depravity. The last one was a guy taking a selfie with a dead woman on the railway tracks.

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The illusion of the "bad world" comes about from the more wider reporting of it , and a propensity of the news agencies to seek out the more shocking incidents.

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Antibiotics seem to be losing their effectiveness.

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Yes but thats always been the case and they are developing new ones quite easily.

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Cancer seems out of control.

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Cancer is more survivable now than its ever been , better detection means more cases are coming to light earlier.

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We're sucking the life out of the planet at an unsustainable rate.

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To a degree but we've only started questioning our role in environmental destruction with any level of consciousness within the last 60 years and its already a major consideration around the globe. We've been abusing the environment a lot longer than that.

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Global warming

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see above

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Plastic islands

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I'm not quite convinced of this. Plastic is reasonably benign in the environment unless its physically strangling animals.

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Species of animal and insect going extinct before we've even really learned anything about them.

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evolution has always been happening

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Mass immigration

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Again its always been happening

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Love island

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Don't watch TV.

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The list goes on, but I can't help but feel it's all downhill from here.

What's everyone's thoughts?

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I think this is the best things have been for the most amount of people in the history of the planet . I also think the upcoming generations will have a much deeper understanding of their need to be in harmony with the environment.

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Originally Posted by Complex

Completely agree with the environmental issues. The first thing people should do if they do care is stop eating meat (and secondarily, dairy) but they'd rather convince themselves that it's not the largest factor so they can carry on enjoying themselves in their self-imposed ignorance.

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Researchers from Lund University in Sweden have calculated that quitting meat and dairy can save about 0.8 tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year whereas having 1 fewer child saves about 58.6 tonnes a year. So really the first thing people should do to save the planet is use a condom.

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Originally Posted by Mr.D

Yes but thats always been the case and they are developing new ones quite easily

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‘They’ most certainly are not!!

This Ted Talk is worth a watch. Debunking most of the bad news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ

It is far easier to focus on all the 'wrong' that is present and perceived in the world, and our individual lives, than what is right and positive.

Most of us understand the concept of 'pay it forward' but we don't act on it; usually justifying that to ourselves by saying: I'm too busy, I have other things/people to worry about.

The solution to so much of what concerns us could be resolved relatively easily if each person chose compassion, understanding, patience and assistance to those around them.

I am a firm believer in working hard to maintain a positive mindset but I am also aware that there is an awful lot that happens to distract us from that; furthermore, that human nature is all too prone to focus on what is wrong and unfair.

I have a few books that I reread when I feel that mindset slipping and I also try to find new things that inspire me, as well as looking to those that have in the past.

Humankind can be condemned for a fair amount of our behaviour but equally we have, and will continue, to achieve some amazing feats of both creation and mass compassion.

This may not be for everyone but I found this recently and there are some elements of it that really hit home:

https://vimeo.com/139037639

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Originally Posted by Peck

‘They’ most certainly are not!!

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Well I guess one of the things is overuse of them in cases that don't need them. There seems to be much more widespread recognition of this in the west . Can't remember the last time I was prescribed anti-biotics in the west for anything .

However in India ( where I'm sat at the moment) they throw antibiotics at you like its no tomorrow and they are cheap as anything. Anything from a fever to a case of the skits ... high strength broad spectrum antibiotics dished out like smarties. Often two or more types.

I don’t think it’s all complete doom and gloom, but we certainly have a few challenging years / decades ahead. My biggest fear is the aging population in the western world - how the hell are we going to give this rapidly growing demographic a decent standard of living into their (very) old age? No one seems to want to grab this particularly nasty nettle.

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Originally Posted by Mr.D

Well I guess one of the things is overuse of them in cases that don't need them. There seems to be much more widespread recognition of this in the west . Can't remember the last time I was prescribed anti-biotics in the west for anything .

However in India ( where I'm sat at the moment) they throw antibiotics at you like its no tomorrow and they are cheap as anything. Anything from a fever to a case of the skits ... high strength broad spectrum antibiotics dished out like smarties. Often two or more types.

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Yes, agreed. But that’s a very different point to your original comment about the development of new antibiotics. It’s a hugely complex area of R&D, and many big pharma companies have simply stopped their programmes because the business case tends to be weak for these types of drugs (you take a course of antibiotics and you are cured... not many repeat prescriptions!). I used to work for a big pharma company and worked on a couple of antibiotics

Grammar died when people stopped using Latin.

If we cured cancer, there would be a huge rise in deaths from heart disease and other diseases. Worse than that, the last time I checked, the overall mortality rate was 100%.

I do have some concerns about climate change, whether it's man made or not.

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Originally Posted by MintG

I think Talking Heads summed it up well. “We’re on a road to nowhere.”


Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app

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It’s not how you get there, it where your going.

We are being controlled if we like it [emoji1303] or not.




Sent from The land of hope and glory.

Nostalgia trip.

We will never peak as a civilization, ever. We continue to evolve, discover and grow until extinction.
There was probably an ape a couple of million years ago wondering the same thing (not that I'm comparing you to an ape...) after they had conquered all the tallest trees.

Population growth is the biggie. We had a debate about this recently. General thoughts were that the population growth will slow and eventually start to recede as the number of people on the planet overtake the necessary resources to sustain them, then pick up again once those resources replenish themselves. That is assuming those resources DO replenish themselves, there are plenty of plants now extinct due to our enthusiasm for deforestation for example.


The big issue raised (and I found this quite interesting) was mankinds attempts to fight against the lack of resources, for lack of a better way to put it. For example the huge wave of aid sent to Africa in the last few decades. Is it right to try and help the population of such places by supplying/importing aid and resources, or is it right to allow their population to grow only in line with the resources they have naturally available to them? The suggestion was made that their population is unnaturally high because of external help which they now rely on.

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Originally Posted by hogthrob

Grammar died when people stopped using Latin.

If we cured cancer, there would be a huge rise in deaths from heart disease and other diseases. Worse than that, the last time I checked, the overall mortality rate was 100%.

I do have some concerns about climate change, whether it's man made or not.

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You are pretty much guaranteed to develop cancer regardless of your health as you age. In some ways this makes me feel a bit better as for years we've been beaten by the media that its all down to us abusing our bodies , it makes cancer a bit less scary in my opinion. If that doesn't sound too weird. You are going to checkout eventually and cancer merely indicates you've outlived the ability of your body to perpetuate itself ...which is quite impressive really.

And every-time I feel bad or worried about the future I think about the young people that got blown to bits in the various wars . We always think of them as stalwart heroic strong men making a noble sacrifice when in fact most of them were terrified kids with their entire lives still in front of them ( on both sides too).

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Originally Posted by Mr.D

You are pretty much guaranteed to develop cancer regardless of your health as you age.

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U wot m8y

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Originally Posted by EchoSevenNine

Have we peaked as a civilization and is it all downhill from here?

I'm by no means an expert on this and I may just be getting old and cynical but I can't help but feel we have.

Social media has killed off human interaction. People in the same room tweeting each other.

Grammar is dead. U wot m8

Young people are losing the ability to communicate face to face. See point one.

Almost every week I learn of a new form of depravity. The last one was a guy taking a selfie with a dead woman on the railway tracks.

Antibiotics seem to be losing their effectiveness.

Cancer seems out of control.

We're sucking the life out of the planet at an unsustainable rate.

Global warming

Plastic islands

Species of animal and insect going extinct before we've even really learned anything about them.

Mass immigration

Love island

The list goes on, but I can't help but feel it's all downhill from here.

What's everyone's thoughts?

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Things go in cycles and we constitute a mere blip in the infinitesimal vast ocean of being

Having said that, i think things are coming to a head, in more ways than one.

I think it's up to us how we react at these times, and i also think that 'that is the point'

Keep on keeping on. Keep on smiling

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Originally Posted by seikopath

U wot m8y

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Here's quite a good article that gets the point

https://www.wired.com/2013/05/al_argcancer/

I thought all of that Echo but just thought coming up to seventy I was just a miserable bastard.

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Originally Posted by Groundrush

Researchers from Lund University in Sweden have calculated that quitting meat and dairy can save about 0.8 tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year whereas having 1 fewer child saves about 58.6 tonnes a year. So really the first thing people should do to save the planet is use a condom.

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Agree. But narcissism will prevail as people insist on making as many copies of themselves as possible. Having more than 1 child should be illegal, or punitively fined.

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Originally Posted by EchoSevenNine

The list goes on, but I can't help but feel it's all downhill from here.

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The ‘list’ could equally be made of of the beneficial/good/positive things in life.

R

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Originally Posted by Mr.D

I'm not quite convinced of this. Plastic is reasonably benign in the environment unless its physically strangling animals.

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I take it you don't think microbeads are a problem then?

No new family of antibiotics has been discovered / developed since 1987.
New multi drug resistant bacteria are being found .
For example there is a new multi drug resistant gonorrhea that can only be treated with one of the final choice antibiotics.
Once these the use of these final choice antibiotics becomes more common then the opportunity for resistance to it increases.

Expectations of patients to be given a tablet to take are still high , especially pain relief. I have a no opiate policy in my prescribing and it has resulted in a number of disagreements where patients think they have a right to terminal care level pain relief after routine treatment.

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Originally Posted by MarkO

For example there is a new multi drug resistant gonorrhea that can only be treated with one of the final choice antibiotics.
t.

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Get well soon #prayforMarksnOb

All creatures follow the same basic pattern of consuming all available resources until there's an equilibrium. We are arrogant if we consider ourselves to somehow be too intelligent to prevent it. Eventually we will run out of food to sustain the population, unless the population is artificially capped.

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Originally Posted by Man of Kent

All creatures follow the same basic pattern of consuming all available resources until there's an equilibrium. We are arrogant if we consider ourselves to somehow be too intelligent to prevent it. Eventually we will run out of food to sustain the population, unless the population is artificially capped.

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Soylent Green?

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Originally Posted by EchoSevenNine

Have we peaked as a civilization and is it all downhill from here?

I'm by no means an expert on this and I may just be getting old and cynical but I can't help but feel we have.

Social media has killed off human interaction. People in the same room tweeting each other.

Grammar is dead. U wot m8

Young people are losing the ability to communicate face to face. See point one.

Almost every week I learn of a new form of depravity. The last one was a guy taking a selfie with a dead woman on the railway tracks.

Antibiotics seem to be losing their effectiveness.

Cancer seems out of control.

We're sucking the life out of the planet at an unsustainable rate.

Global warming

Plastic islands

Species of animal and insect going extinct before we've even really learned anything about them.

Mass immigration

Love island

The list goes on, but I can't help but feel it's all downhill from here.

What's everyone's thoughts?

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Turn off the TV, read a newspaper once a week and all is good. Same as it ever was before the 24 hour a day news and instant media reports of the most trivial of things...

I think this question is linked to the 'idea of progress' and 'myth of progress'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idea_of_progress

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Originally Posted by ach5

Agree. But narcissism will prevail as people insist on making as many copies of themselves as possible. Having more than 1 child should be illegal, or punitively fined.

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Each couple needs two children to reach adulthood and bear more children in order to maintain the status quo. Any less and the population will decline by 50% in each and every generation.

As there will be childhood deaths and people who font have children, the actual requirement will be slightly above two.

I believe two elephants in the room, and to an extent they are linked, are global overpopulation and extended life-expectancy - plenty else follows on from that.

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Originally Posted by Man of Kent

All creatures follow the same basic pattern of consuming all available resources until there's an equilibrium. We are arrogant if we consider ourselves to somehow be too intelligent to prevent it. Eventually we will run out of food to sustain the population, unless the population is artificially capped.

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We are intelligent enough to appreciate the dilemma and intelligent enough to work out a solution to the problem. I don’t believe that is arrogance.

I don’t believe that we will though because it means a unified, coordinated approach which won’t happen whilst those in power put their own interests first.

We are a virus.

Civilisation is a veneer.

Apart from that, things look good.

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Originally Posted by Incredible Sulk

Soylent Green?

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Deleted until I can get my greens sorted out - may be back later.

I was on a first aid refresher course the other day and the trainer told me that he saved a motorbike riders life by stemming the flow of blood loss from two VERY badly damaged limbs, only then to be sued afterwards by the rider for cutting off his leathers without asking permission - even though the trainer HAD asked for permission. If the medic had not cut off his leathers, the biker would have certainly have died.

It is a very odd world that we live in nowadays and the people seem to be getting more and more odd by the day!
(Fortunately the judge threw it out of court BTW).

The sun is shining.
My two dogs are asleep at my feet under my desk.
It is a Friday.
Life is good.

Don't worry.
Be happy.
Worrying doesn't change anything.

I think it’s an interesting time to be alive (for better or worse).

We’re arguably at (or past) peak-Western civilisation. The WASPy model seems to have been disproportionally successful for the last few centuries, and we’re possibly in the process of getting our arses handed to us - Trump, political correctness, snowflakes, social media, Love Island etc are more signs of that imo.

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Originally Posted by Dave+63

Each couple needs two children to reach adulthood and bear more children in order to maintain the status quo. Any less and the population will decline by 50% in each and every generation.

As there will be childhood deaths and people who font have children, the actual requirement will be slightly above two.

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Agreed, but I wasn't suggesting maintaining the Status Quo.

We need another good plague.

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Originally Posted by robcat

I think it’s an interesting time to be alive (for better or worse).

We’re arguably at (or past) peak-Western civilisation. .

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Thats based on the assumption that there were not advanced technical civilisations on this planet, as advanced or more advanced than our current one, before, say for example, 2000 bc

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Originally Posted by ach5

We need another good plague.

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I suppose preferably in a far-away land?

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Originally Posted by seikopath

Thats based on the assumption that there were not advanced technical civilisations on this planet, as advanced or more advanced than our current one, before, say for example, 2000 bc

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And it depends on how you judge a civilianisation’s success.

What I also meant was that the Western European/US consumerist, “democratic” model may well need to give way to something else.

Bombay is now Mumbai,Peking became Beijing (ruining a serviceable childish joke) and Boudicea morphed into Boudicca,it's all going to hell in a handcart.

Twix was called Raider in mainland Europe for many years.

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Originally Posted by robcat

And it depends on how you judge a civilianisation’s success.

What I also meant was that the Western European/US consumerist, “democratic” model may well need to give way to something else.

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I think it already is, but we are talking very short timescales here

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Originally Posted by Raffe

I suppose preferably in a far-away land?

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No, worldwide. Everywhere. Just shake things up again, let us all go back 50 years and start again, minus the "lifestyle" and Kardashian masses.

in fact, Id focus it in the West if I could... even up the world a little bit.

Did you ever see the film The Survivalist? Worth a watch. You'll never eat mushrooms again.