Flight Prices

My youngest has just finished his A levels and wanted to visit his best friend who has just joined his family in Singapore where they are working. He wants to do a bit of a mini tour of SE Asia with his friend.

I thought, no probs that will be £800 for a return flight from London to Singapore in August. I was even prepared for up to £1k, but at least it would be direct flights for him, although that did make me wince.

How wrong I was. Anything direct was £2k+, and it was £1500+ for anything with a one stop.

If you are prepared to sacrifice 30 hours of your life, including an overnight in some Middle East location you could achieve £1200+. Even Scoot the low cost airline was a minimum of £1200, including no food, no bags, no nothing.

Wow, post Covid it sure is expensive to travel long haul.

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Originally Posted by noTAGlove

Wow, post Covid it sure is expensive to travel long haul.

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Good! You do understand it’s a privilege and not a right to fly across the world?

But maybe you’re not travelling, just trolling?

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Originally Posted by Onelasttime

Good! You do understand it’s a privilege and not a right to fly across the world?

But maybe you’re not travelling, just trolling?

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Why is it good?

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Originally Posted by Mj2k

Why is it good?

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That the prices reflect the reality. It's been far too cheap for too long and the long haul flight industry is an environmental disaster.

Plus, I can't stand people whining about their middle class, 1st world problems. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Onelasttime

That the prices reflect the reality. It's been far too cheap for too long and the long haul flight industry is an environmental disaster.

Plus, I can't stand people whining about their middle class, 1st world problems. :thumbsup:

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Agree with your first point wholeheartedly.

School summer holiday prices?

Etihad £1197 with a 2 hour Layover in Abu Dhabi. Out on the 4th, back on the 18th

Are you checking prices on Skyscanner.net? Its the best site for prices iirc.

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Originally Posted by ~dadam02~

School summer holiday prices?

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Hefty fuel surcharges also, plus a lot of the airlines cut back routes due to the pandemic and have yet to reopen them. Heathrow-Bangkok is a good example, BA stopped that flight until Oct this year, EVA Air scheduled 2 flights a week instead of the daily one and Thai Airways dropped 4 of the weekly flights. Then an explosion of demand and as a result prices are through the roof

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Originally Posted by ryanb741

Hefty fuel surcharges also, plus a lot of the airlines cut back routes due to the pandemic and have yet to reopen them. Heathrow-Bangkok is a good example, BA stopped that flight until Oct this year, EVA Air scheduled 2 flights a week instead of the daily one and Thai Airways dropped 4 of the weekly flights. Then an explosion of demand and as a result prices are through the roof

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Thanks, simple supply and demand.

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Originally Posted by Onelasttime

Plus, I can't stand people whining about their middle class, 1st world problems. :thumbsup:

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Haha - you must have never read one of the hundreds of Rolex threads over the years.

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Originally Posted by Onelasttime

Good! You do understand it’s a privilege and not a right to fly across the world?

But maybe you’re not travelling, just trolling?

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Easy cowboy.

Eating meat/replacing cars/buying plastics/driving anywhere/on line shopping etc. etc. all must are privileges too, as they all significantly contribute to your carbon footprint. Let's not try to lecture.

What I love about today's more mature generation is that they had it, and took advantage of it all. Free university, affordable housing, cheap international travel etc., and now they have done it all and, they want to lecture.

Well, with travel comes a richness to life, and a cultural experience like no other. Especially for an 18 year old starting out on his independent life.

But, you carry on, grandad. We can all lead our insular lives on this tiny island and see where that gets us.

My son attends University abroad, and I have just paid three hundred pounds over what I was expecting for his flight back home for the summer holidays.

I was expecting an increase just not one as high as it was.

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Originally Posted by noTAGlove

Easy cowboy.

Eating meat/replacing cars/buying plastics/driving anywhere/on line shopping etc. etc. all must are privileges too, as they all significantly contribute to your carbon footprint. Let's not try to lecture.

What I love about today's more mature generation is that they had it, and took advantage of it all. Free university, affordable housing, cheap international travel etc., and now they have done it all and, they want to lecture.

Well, with travel comes a richness to life, and a cultural experience like no other. Especially for an 18 year old starting out on his independent life.

But, you carry on, grandad. We can all lead our insular lives on this tiny island and see where that gets us.

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Very much doubt he's older than you.

Anyway, youngsters today have got a lot more than I (and many like me) ever had.

Independent life? Reading threads on TZ, youngsters have never been so molly-coddled. My parent never paid for me to travel half-way round the world, bought me a car at 18, visited universities with me and so forth. Same for my friends.

Edit, typo - Should have typed "My parents", lest anyone thinks I was somehow disadvantaged....

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Originally Posted by noTAGlove

Easy cowboy.

Eating meat/replacing cars/buying plastics/driving anywhere/on line shopping etc. etc. all must are privileges too, as they all significantly contribute to your carbon footprint. Let's not try to lecture.

What I love about today's more mature generation is that they had it, and took advantage of it all. Free university, affordable housing, cheap international travel etc., and now they have done it all and, they want to lecture.

Well, with travel comes a richness to life, and a cultural experience like no other. Especially for an 18 year old starting out on his independent life.

But, you carry on, grandad. We can all lead our insular lives on this tiny island and see where that gets us.

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How old do you think I am? :biggrin-new:

As for your son's and my children's generation, it's up to them to learn from the mistakes of grandad's generation and think a little bit more about their effect on the wider world, rather than simply pursuing their insular, and mostly selfish, desires.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/resou...0_original.jpg

Rationally thinking rather than picking on aviation as a visible environmental "boogie monster"...cutting out LH aviation would have little effect. We really want to save the environment, we need to look at both energy production (ie China has to stop burning coal) and vehicles (people in the US need to stop running 6L engines). By concentrating on the wrong thing, we wont achieve anything other than handwringing and lecturing.

OP - the seat prices are just supply and demand. Much less capacity on long haul than there was pre-pandemic. Fewer seats = higher prices.

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Very much doubt he's older than you.

Anyway, youngsters today have got a lot more than I (and many like me) ever had.

Independent life? Reading threads on TZ, youngsters have never been so molly-coddled. My parent never paid for me to travel half-way round the world, bought me a car at 18, visited universities with me and so forth. Same for my friends.

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I almost thought the OP's remark about an 'independent life' was a slightly tongue in cheek. Nothing 'independent' about your parents paying for you to fly half way around the world at 18 to spend some time with a mate. Quite the opposite.

Having an appreciation that not everything comes for free, and that when you have to work to earn your money you end up having to prioritise how to spend it, is probably one of the best life lessons anyone moving from adolescence into adulthood can learn.

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Independent life? Reading threads on TZ, youngsters have never been so molly-coddled. My parent never paid for me to travel half-way round the world, bought me a car at 18, visited universities with me and so forth. Same for my friends.

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This, exactly.

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

Very much doubt he's older than you.

Anyway, youngsters today have got a lot more than I (and many like me) ever had.

Independent life? Reading threads on TZ, youngsters have never been so molly-coddled. My parent never paid for me to travel half-way round the world, bought me a car at 18, visited universities with me and so forth. Same for my friends.

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Originally Posted by draftsmann

This, exactly.

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You may be guilty of extrapolating too much from a biased sample. TZUK isn’t a good reflection on society, clearly the population is more affluent than average.

If you don’t have family money, it can be a daunting world. No more affordable houses, renting costs a fortune, wages haven’t kept up with inflation. I think it’s difficult to conclude on average that young people have it easier today than other recent generations. But hey, none of us are living in medieval times either.

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Originally Posted by Christian

Rationally thinking rather than picking on aviation as a visible environmental "boogie monster"...cutting out LH aviation would have little effect. We really want to save the environment, we need to look at both energy production (ie China has to stop burning coal) and vehicles (people in the US need to stop running 6L engines). By concentrating on the wrong thing, we wont achieve anything other than handwringing and lecturing.

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You are correct, with a caveat: that is the number of people transported. 0.4% of the EU's greenhouse gas emission on domestic flights is considerable if you compare it with trains, especially if you consider how little time it saves today as well as their respective numbers of passengers.
To take a UK example, how long does it take if you live in London to go to the airport, go through security, fly to Glasgow, exit the airport and get to the town centre compared to just about 4.5 hours from Euston? And that is assuming your final destination is Glasgow, rather than an airport-less town.
Even 3.4% is considerable when so many people who used to travel for business can now have a face to face meeting over the internet.
Of course Teams or Zoom cannot replace ALL business travels but it can certainly replace a great deal of them with -and it is the important point- very little sacrifice.

Yes gas guzzlers should disappear for the sake of the planet; but gas prices are going to achieve that anyway. Likewise, electric cars will outsell ICE within a few years. Flying?

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

Flying?

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For it's own survival it's definitely changing (I'm thinking SAF)...it'll just take longer and it's not as immediate and visible as someone driving round in a Tesla. I certainly don't disagree about train versus plain for London-Edinburgh but if we are talking about immediate and efficient gains, I feel like we should focus on the big ticket stuff rather than try and shame someone for commenting that flight prices are high (although I can never tell whether on this forum it stems from a personal vendetta!). I mean, we certainly aren't there with cars and over 60% of car journeys are single-occupancy.

Many routes to Asia would previously have crossed Russian or Ukrainian airspace. Flights are avoiding those now, resulting in longer journeys (or indirect routes with stopovers) and more fuel. Jet fuel costs 125% more than a year ago, in dollars, and the dollar has gained against the pound.

It adds to the costs, in addition to the surge in demand vs slower ramping of capacity already mentioned.

On the general point of pricing, it's started to vary wildly even on short-haul. I'm paying anything from 100 to 500+. There was fluctuation before COVID and during previous oil price spikes, but nothing like this.

It's neither an affordable and smooth experience anymore.

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Originally Posted by Christian

For it's own survival it's definitely changing (I'm thinking SAF)...it'll just take longer and it's not as immediate and visible as someone driving round in a Tesla. I certainly don't disagree about train versus plain for London-Edinburgh but if we are talking about immediate and efficient gains, I feel like we should focus on the big ticket stuff rather than try and shame someone for commenting that flight prices are high (although I can never tell whether on this forum it stems from a personal vendetta!). I mean, we certainly aren't there with cars and over 60% of car journeys are single-occupancy.

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As I said, I agree ;)
I took the post at face value, without any contextual consideration.I also tried to choose my words as I believe you are (or were) in the business, and didn't want you to take it personally :D
However I think it is easier, and you'd get quicker results, to target flying provided people have a credible alternative (Zoom / trains for domestic) and go more progressively on the car driving public who seem to show the same attachment to their cars as Americans show to their gun carrying laws.

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Originally Posted by OldHooky

On the general point of pricing, it's started to vary wildly even on short-haul. I'm paying anything from 100 to 500+. There was fluctuation before COVID and during previous oil price spikes, but nothing like this.

It's neither an affordable and smooth experience anymore.

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True. EU capacity is not at pre-pandemic levels. One thing is for certain, prices will only go up...I'd have thought the tickets available now are based on hedged fuel prices. Should Russia-Ukraine continue for years, things are going to get messy again in aviation like the late 70s and GW1.

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Originally Posted by Saint-Just

As I said, I agree ;)
I took the post at face value, without any contextual consideration.I also tried to choose my words as I believe you are (or were) in the business, and didn't want you to take it personally :D
However I think it is easier, and you'd get quicker results, to target flying provided people have a credible alternative (Zoom / trains for domestic) and go more progressively on the car driving public who seem to show the same attachment to their cars as Americans show to their gun carrying laws.

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Fair points and I do still have an interest in the sector!

Sorry - I've just re-read my post - when I was talking about vendetta, I meant OP versus first response! Thought it was a strange post to jump down his neck. Nothing to do with your reply!

Airlines are playing some interesting games of late
I have a long haul booked for later in the year along with a few short haul international and internal flights whilst there.
The airline I have booked three of the 4 short haul flights on has gone bust (a subsidiary of the long haul airline who I booked all flights through)
The long haul wanted me to cancel ALL flights including the long haul sectors on the basis that I could not now do the short haul. When I pointed out that I still wanted the long haul, the guy from the airline said, it’s not a problem cancel the lot and I can rebook you, when I asked how much it was double the price!!!
They wanted to refund me the cheap flights and sell me a much more expensive ticket.
I asked for a refund on the short hauls and kept the long hall. He was not happy.
It took them 3 weeks to get the cash for the short haul back to me. In the mean time I found cheapish short hauls on my own - there is nothing like the rush of stepping on to an unknown African airliner held together with ductape and bin liners. But the trip is still on.
No wonder the staff (including family members) are going on strike at Britains Flag Carrier airline.

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Originally Posted by ryanb741

Etihad £1197 with a 2 hour Layover in Abu Dhabi. Out on the 4th, back on the 18th

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Thanks. I have, or my son has, just lucked out.

I had checked Avios redemption and there was nothing for months, but tried a one way redemption and found a single seat coming back from Singapore in late August. Given there was no availability for months someone must have cancelled this reward flight very recently, and I snapped it up.

Best 35,000 Avios miles I have ever spent, as the flight was price at over £1600 for a one way journey. Just bought him a outbound ticket on Scoot which fly direct from Gatwick via Bangkok. All in all £700 plus the Avios which I am pleased.

Jeez this thread was never about some supposed middle class child, and daddy paying for flights and how molley coddled youngsters are these days. I was brought up on a Liverpool Council estate without a pot to p1ss in (shoe box in middle of road type stuff, LOL) so it couldn’t be further from the truth. Just a (hopefully) good Dad doing the best for his kid, and using bit of excess cash to help him out with experiences I never had when I was his age.

And it certainly wasn’t meant to be food for the virtue signalling part time eco warriors.

It was merely used an illustration that flight prices are very high and that if you are thinking of booking long haul holidays you are going to be paying a lot more going forward.

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Originally Posted by M1011

You may be guilty of extrapolating too much from a biased sample. TZUK isn’t a good reflection on society, clearly the population is more affluent than average.

If you don’t have family money, it can be a daunting world. No more affordable houses, renting costs a fortune, wages haven’t kept up with inflation. I think it’s difficult to conclude on average that young people have it easier today than other recent generations. But hey, none of us are living in medieval times either.

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It's not just affluence, it's being able to make decisions and do things for themselves.

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Originally Posted by noTAGlove

Thanks. I have, or my son has, just lucked out.

I had checked Avios redemption and there was nothing for months, but tried a one way redemption and found a single seat coming back from Singapore in late August. Given there was no availability for months someone must have cancelled this reward flight very recently, and I snapped it up.

Best 35,000 Avios miles I have ever spent, as the flight was price at over £1600 for a one way journey. Just bought him a outbound ticket on Scoot which fly direct from Gatwick via Bangkok. All in all £700 plus the Avios which I am pleased.

Jeez this thread was never about some supposed middle class child, and daddy paying for flights and how molley coddled youngsters are these days. I was brought up on a Liverpool Council estate without a pot to p1ss in (shoe box in middle of road type stuff, LOL) so it couldn’t be further from the truth. Just a (hopefully) good Dad doing the best for his kid, and using bit of excess cash to help him out with experiences I never had when I was his age.

And it certainly wasn’t meant to be food for the virtue signalling part time eco warriors.

It was merely used an illustration that flight prices are very high and that if you are thinking of booking long haul holidays you are going to be paying a lot more going forward.

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Being a good dad is never something one should be ashamed of. Fair play to you I just hope it's appreciated by him.

FWIW International travel and experiencing other cultures is one of life's most richly rewarding treasures and should be experienced by as many people as possible.

Pre-pandemic flights to India with my family were under £1500. When I for travel in February 2022, the tickets were £3500 I think.

I have now booked for February 2023, £2500. Since booking, the prices have increased further.

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Originally Posted by prexelor

Pre-pandemic flights to India with my family were under £1500. When I for travel in February 2022, the tickets were £3500 I think.

I have now booked for February 2023, £2500. Since booking, the prices have increased further.

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My work colleague travels to Chennai regularly to see his family.

He said what he is paying for an economy seat now, he was paying for a discounted business seat pre-Covid.

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Originally Posted by Kingstepper

It's not just affluence, it's being able to make decisions and do things for themselves.

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My post was in response to the claim the current generation coming into adulthood has it easier than previous ones. I’m not sure I see your point here to be totally honest.