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swanbourne
4th November 2004, 11:40
Most of you will know that despite me applying to register the trademark first, Omega seem to believe they have prior rights and have opposed the registration of my trademark "BROADARROW".

Being the easy-going type of chap that I am I decided that if they would give me a bit of money to go away, I would withdraw my application and leave them to it.

I'm glad to see that they also prefer to choose the easy option, here's a fax I received from their attorney yesterday evening.

http://www.tz-uk.com/collenfax.jpg
http://www.tz-uk.com/collenfax2.jpg

Do they expect me to cave in and walk away? Do they not know me?

Eddie

chrisb
4th November 2004, 12:56
:)
Go get 'em Eddie :!:


Are they saying that if you don't agree, then they will try and stop you selling your current inventory :?:

Ming Thein
4th November 2004, 13:12
Interesting. Are you going to take them up on the offer (providing of course they stick another zero after the aforementioned sum)?

Ming

chrisb
4th November 2004, 13:14
Interesting. Are you going to take them up on the offer (providing of course they stick another zero after the aforementioned sum)?

Ming

Read it again young man :roll:

Slower this time :wink:

swanbourne
4th November 2004, 13:31
They are actually offering nothing. Allowing me to sell my existing inventory is not a concession on their part, the trademark opposition process won't be completed by then and until there is a decision on the trademark, they can do nothing. They cannot do anything until they actually have the trademark either, which is by no means a foregone conclusion.

In the meantime, I will continue with my strategy of the globalisation of my Broadarrow brand.

Eddie

chrisb
4th November 2004, 13:39
Today Sheffield....tomorrow the Woooorrrrrlllldddd :!: :!: :wink:

ijhill
4th November 2004, 17:56
I know that this may be old ground, but who used the name first.

I do not recollect an Omega Broad Arrow albeit "broad arrow" could describe the hands on some of their watches.

Is there a reference to the history of this matter on the forum.

Their attitude makes be glad I did'nt buy the Seamaster I had lusted over a few years back, that and their swatch links.

Go Eddie, go!!!

PS, Hope you have a friendly lawyer supporting your case.

4th November 2004, 18:10
Eddie,
I can see where Omega are coming from but I honestly can't see any point in them persuing this. It's futile and makes me wonder what the world is coming to.

I frequently peruse this forum but rarely post. This topic has prompted me to post a response.

I wish you success and hope that this matter can be resolved swiftly and without financial loss to yourself.

Regards,

Ian

Ming Thein
4th November 2004, 18:56
Interesting. Are you going to take them up on the offer (providing of course they stick another zero after the aforementioned sum)?

Ming

Read it again young man :roll:

Slower this time :wink:

NOT...crap :( I say screw them.

Ming

docd
4th November 2004, 18:59
Go get em Eddie -


Our client is not willing to pay $15000 as compensation for this agreement

Cheeky making conditional terms with no benefit to you at all :evil:

endure
4th November 2004, 19:05
You need to be careful about asking for compo, Eddie. If trademark law is anything like the laws regarding internet domain names it could be said that you are deliberately trying to register the Broadarrow trademark simply to make money out of Omega.

Nalu
4th November 2004, 19:44
Eddie,
Send Mr. Lindenbaum a letter stating the price is now $30K. Every time Omega refuse, raise the price. Maybe they'll get it someday. :knob:

rfrazier
4th November 2004, 19:47
You need to be careful about asking for compo, Eddie. If trademark law is anything like the laws regarding internet domain names it could be said that you are deliberately trying to register the Broadarrow trademark simply to make money out of Omega.

Isn't the difference that Eddie was making, and selling, for a profit I hope, watches with this name? He wasn't doing the equivalent of CyberSquatting.

Nor was he trying to get some advantage from the very, very tenuous association with Omega. At least no such association was in my mind when I decided to buy a PRS4.

Are Omega going to take down broadarrow.net as well? The use of it there and by Eddie should be taken as prima facie evidence that this name has entered into use as something rather generic, having to do with military style watches. This might preclude Eddie from registering it, but would certainly undermine Omega's action.

But, of course, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the law.

Best wishes,
Bob

swanbourne
4th November 2004, 19:50
You need to be careful about asking for compo, Eddie. If trademark law is anything like the laws regarding internet domain names it could be said that you are deliberately trying to register the Broadarrow trademark simply to make money out of Omega.

I think this would be seen as slightly different. I have actually been trading with the name "Broadarrow" for more than two years and the expenses I suggested were simply to cover the cost of existing branded stock. I own the domain broadarrowonline.com, I own the limited company Broadarrow International Limited. All this plus literature, packaging, warranty cards, etc. No, I don't think it could be seen as a "get rich quick" opportunity. The planning started long before the first watch was sold.

Eddie

rfrazier
4th November 2004, 19:54
I think this would be seen as slightly different. I have actually been trading with the name "Broadarrow" for more than two years and the expenses I suggested were simply to cover the cost of existing branded stock. I own the domain broadarrowonline.com, I own the limited company Broadarrow International Limited. All this plus literature, packaging, warranty cards, etc. No, I don't think it could be seen as a "get rich quick" opportunity. The planning started long before the first watch was sold.

Eddie

So, you weren't going to take the $15,000, move to Hawaii and take up surfing? ;)

Best wishes,
Bob

swanbourne
4th November 2004, 20:21
I would move to Hawaii for much less Bob :wink:

Eddie

Jeroen
4th November 2004, 20:57
A stupid move of Omega / the swatch group.....

The amount of money you're asking is not unreasonable considering the costs one makes to start a brand..... besides that it's small change for mr Hayek.... he had business lunches that were more expensive ( and by looking at his body it would be healthy for him to skip a few of those the coming months...)

So go out and get them Eddie, no more swatchgroupwatches for me....


Jeroen

Nalu
4th November 2004, 21:44
I would move to Hawaii for much less Bob :wink:

Eddie

Once the Army pensions me off in a few years, I hope you'll come to visit Eddie.

5th November 2004, 01:53
At least we see how the Swatch Group deals with smaller independent companies now. Just because you don't have the financial strength to take them to court, Eddie, don't cave in.

:evil:

I know that the "Broadarrow" name is associated with Omega Speedmaster Broad Arrow, but as you currently own the rights to it, you must have some rights as to what you can do with it. I always thought it was a generic term to decribe military markings, certainly not conjured up by Omega. They should have done their homework and checked trademark ownership before bloody complaining when it was too late.

Play them at their own game and let those b**stards sweat for a while.



:D

Mrcrowley
6th November 2004, 13:18
Yes - can't you demand royalties or whatever for them using Broad arrow on the Speedmaster?

James.uk
7th November 2004, 00:45
and it simply comes down to bank balance.
Its unfair but i personally would not bother fighting it in court as the legal costs will be horrific....even if you eventually win you could have years to fight.
I would go the 'PR' route and stir up a real shitstorm..talk to papers, TV,watch mags.... anyone that will listen.
Omega will hate the negative PR and who knows?
They may pay you just to shut you up :wink:

clay
7th November 2004, 04:12
In the meantime, I will continue with my strategy of the globalisation of my Broadarrow brand.

Eddie

Well you have reached Australia so far and maybe even beyond......... 8)

Ron Jr
7th November 2004, 05:16
and it simply comes down to bank balance.
Its unfair but i personally would not bother fighting it in court as the legal costs will be horrific....even if you eventually win you could have years to fight.
I would go the 'PR' route and stir up a real shitstorm..talk to papers, TV,watch mags.... anyone that will listen.
Omega will hate the negative PR and who knows?
They may pay you just to shut you up :wink:

The Squeky wheel gets oiled.

adrian
7th November 2004, 11:52
no more swatchgroupwatches for me....


As much as I enjoy my SMP I'm very disappointed by their attitude and I agree with Jeroen.

KH2
8th November 2004, 11:28
..............
I would go the 'PR' route and stir up a real shitstorm..talk to papers, TV,watch mags.... anyone that will listen.


I like this idea, not sure if I would start it all up at once but let them know this is what you intend to do, including a deep coverage of how Omega claims ownership to something used by RAF / MOD during WWII and later got to be known as Broad Arrow ( Please Note : I might be very wrong on this one - absolutely no military watch expert)
The article, or what ever, also should include that they actually are in possition of "ruin" your 2+ years of allready established brand and also your registered trade mark.
After this I would await their respond to this move.

A dumb but somewhat adequate similar situation : If I launch a watch brand named "Black Bezel" or "Six eater" I would be getting into a h*ll of a lot of trouble me belive :?

I suppose this didn't help alot but you most certainly got my support Eddie, go get them one way or the other.


But, of course, I'm not a lawyer, and I don't know the law.
Same here and I'm glad . This way I am 100% sure that if I break any it was never intended 8)

KH2
P.S. Have they seen the SM300 Hommage yet ?
If you loose this battle please launce a limited edition SM300 with BroadArrow on the dial two weeks before their proposed enddate of your right to use the name, or even better get hold of some old Speedmaster hands including the broadarrow and put them on aswell.
P.S. 2
Have the Swatch group registered the name "Moonwatch" ? They use it for sure but I belive there is some Russian watches that have visited the place aswell, and even Swatchgroup can't claim to own the right to the word "Moon"
Did they pay royalties to the Olympic organisation when useing the Olympic rings in connection with watches launced in connection with the olympic games ?
And so on........

A lot of babbel and straight out bulls**t from me, I know !
But Swatch groups way of handling this mather just pisses me off -I'm Sorry :evil:

KH2

pinjol
9th November 2004, 08:58
Interesting to see how will Omega handle the http://www.broadarrow.net, don't you think?

Pavel
9th November 2004, 15:57
So go out and get them Eddie, no more swatchgroupwatches for me....


Jeroen

That's not easy. ETA or Valjoux movements are almost everywhere, including PRS Broadarrows. Considering a boycott? Then one would have to stick with movements by Miyota or Poljot... or Tsienlin Watch Factory.

swanbourne
11th November 2004, 18:46
I've just come off the phone to the attorneys for Omega, who asked if I had considered their offer. Unbelievably, the letter at the beginning of this thread is supposed to be a settlement offer for me to discontinue my application for the trademark "Broadarrow" and promise never to use it again.

I see no benefits on offer, only threats and bullying. Have I considered it? Yes. Have I accepted it? Should we run a poll on this?

:?
Eddie

Crusader
11th November 2004, 19:25
Am I correct to remember that the dispute with Omega is only for the US? I assume that "Broadarrow" is your registered trademark/copyright in Europe?

Would it be a feasable position for you to market your watches in the US under another name, and use the "Broadarrow" in the rest of the world? Then Omega would have to move, not you.

endure
12th November 2004, 20:08
So go out and get them Eddie, no more swatchgroupwatches for me....


Jeroen

That's not easy. ETA or Valjoux movements are almost everywhere, including PRS Broadarrows. Considering a boycott? Then one would have to stick with movements by Miyota or Poljot... or Tsienlin Watch Factory.


Seiko?

abraxas
13th November 2004, 08:27
..............how Omega claims ownership to something used by RAF / MOD during WWII and later got to be known as Broad .........

KH2

dear Eddie,

How can a Swiss company stop you using the name Broadarrow when in fact the expression is much more widely known as signifying British Military Property ... than ?one insignificant Omega model? from the ?50s (or whenever) which everyone forgot about until they recently dredged it out again?

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=pheon (http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2218&highlight=pheon)
http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=pheon (http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2652&highlight=pheon)

Was the original Omega model actually called Broadarrow, at the time of introduction?

john

rfrazier
13th November 2004, 10:14
..............how Omega claims ownership to something used by RAF / MOD during WWII and later got to be known as Broad .........

KH2

dear Eddie,

How can a Swiss company stop you using the name Broadarrow when in fact the expression is much more widely known as signifying British Military Property ... than ?one insignificant Omega model? from the ?50s (or whenever) which everyone forgot about until they recently dredged it out again?

http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=pheon (http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2218&highlight=pheon)
http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... ight=pheon (http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2652&highlight=pheon)

Was the original Omega model actually called Broadarrow, at the time of introduction?

john

I'm not siding with Omega, but you've got to remember that Omega are responding to Eddie's attempt to register "Broadarrow". Eddie's registering it would have allowed him to use law to exclude anyone else from using it (with regard to watches at least), including Omega. That it is in general use is a reason to disallow anyone from registering it. I think it would have been better if Omega had objected to Eddie's registering it on the grounds that it is in general use.

Best wishes,
Bob

tempus
13th November 2004, 16:35
I've just come off the phone to the attorneys for Omega, who asked if I had considered their offer. Unbelievably, the letter at the beginning of this thread is supposed to be a settlement offer for me to discontinue my application for the trademark "Broadarrow" and promise never to use it again.

I see no benefits on offer, only threats and bullying. Have I considered it? Yes. Have I accepted it? Should we run a poll on this?

:?
Eddie

Did the attorney say whether he would give due consideration to your suggestion that his offer letter be placed within a certain orifice?

swanbourne
13th November 2004, 16:39
He never responded to that suggestion Steve but I've received an anonymous e-mail with the plain language version of the attorney's letter.
==========================
A Memo to Eddie Platts from the Law Firm of Dewey, Takem and Howe

Dear Mr. Platts,

We herewith enclose a settlement offer on behalf of our well-heeled clients, which they desperately hope to sneak by you in a pathetic attempt to deprive you of your legal rights in this matter, in exchange for which they offer you more or less nothing (also known as zilch, squat, and the shaft). It is the fervent wish of our very powerful multinational zillionaire clients that you, your heirs and/or assigns voluntarily choose to forgo any and all legitimate claims you may have to the trademark in question without any payment of monetary or other compensation whatsoever.

We intend to follow up this pathetic sham of a settlement offer with a personal phone call designed primarily to ascertain whether you are, indeed, as incredibly gullible as our clients seem to believe you must be, and will therefore just surrender all legal claim to that which is quite obviously rightfully yours without putting up any sort of fight whatever.

In the event that our firm, in the course of further communications with you, determines that you seem to have at least a few brain cells still functioning, and are, therefore, not inclined to readily accept this, or subsequent offers in a similar vein, we will have no choice but to continue this almost-comical farce well-nigh indefinitely, in a vain attempt to wear you down by burying you under heaps of legal paperwork.

We look forward to a campaign of continued harassment on behalf of our clients, and are prepared to pursue this travesty on an ongoing basis, lining our own coffers in the process.

Sincerely,

The BS artists that Omega and the Swatch Group have hired to scam you

tempus
13th November 2004, 16:54
Omega have probably already paid their solicitors more than the amount you want :?

W@^&<$ !!!

Crusader
13th November 2004, 20:40
Omega have probably already paid their solicitors more than the amount you want :?

W@^&<$ !!!

Good point there, Steve! :evil: :evil: :evil:

swanbourne
13th November 2004, 22:11
Omega have probably already paid their solicitors more than the amount you want :?

W@^&<$ !!!

Please don't confuse the amount I asked for with the amount I want.
:D :wink:

Eddie

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:01
Today Sheffield....tomorrow the Woooorrrrrlllldddd :!: :!: :wink:

Urbi et orbi, or something like that :lol:

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:08
Omega have probably already paid their solicitors more than the amount you want :?

W@^&<$ !!!

Please don't confuse the amount I asked for with the amount I want.
:D :wink:

Eddie

So you were asking for????? 15,000 or 150,000 USD???? Maybe it should be 1,500,000 GBP :wink: :wink: :wink: . That should allow you to plan for more watches :lol: :lol: :lol: .

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:24
I've just come off the phone to the attorneys for Omega, who asked if I had considered their offer. Unbelievably, the letter at the beginning of this thread is supposed to be a settlement offer for me to discontinue my application for the trademark "Broadarrow" and promise never to use it again.

I see no benefits on offer, only threats and bullying. Have I considered it? Yes. Have I accepted it? Should we run a poll on this?

:?
Eddie

Yes, you should run a poll on this. We'll support you and you could show the poll results to Omega. The negative publicity from all of us would make Omega think twice.

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:32
no more swatchgroupwatches for me....


As much as I enjoy my SMP I'm very disappointed by their attitude and I agree with Jeroen.

Easier said than done unless you are considering only Omega and Swatch. A lot of other watches use ETA movts.
Anyway, the "lands in the east" produce a lot of movts. that are equal if not better in quality than ETAs. One example is the Seiko MarineMaster 300m auto that I consider to be a better watch than the SMP....the only problem is that it is a Japan-only model and not easily available.

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:43
Am I correct to remember that the dispute with Omega is only for the US? I assume that "Broadarrow" is your registered trademark/copyright in Europe?

Would it be a feasable position for you to market your watches in the US under another name, and use the "Broadarrow" in the rest of the world? Then Omega would have to move, not you.

Omega's letter states that Eddie cannot register and use the Broadarrow trademark in USA or anywhere else.

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:48
They are actually offering nothing. Allowing me to sell my existing inventory is not a concession on their part, the trademark opposition process won't be completed by then and until there is a decision on the trademark, they can do nothing. They cannot do anything until they actually have the trademark either, which is by no means a foregone conclusion.

In the meantime, I will continue with my strategy of the globalisation of my Broadarrow brand.

Eddie

Go kick their as*** :twisted:. Omega is their trademark, not Broadarrow.

Crusader
17th November 2004, 07:51
Did you decide you wanted a thread all by yourself, bettapugnax? :roll: :wink:

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:53
You need to be careful about asking for compo, Eddie. If trademark law is anything like the laws regarding internet domain names it could be said that you are deliberately trying to register the Broadarrow trademark simply to make money out of Omega.

I think this would be seen as slightly different. I have actually been trading with the name "Broadarrow" for more than two years and the expenses I suggested were simply to cover the cost of existing branded stock. I own the domain broadarrowonline.com, I own the limited company Broadarrow International Limited. All this plus literature, packaging, warranty cards, etc. No, I don't think it could be seen as a "get rich quick" opportunity. The planning started long before the first watch was sold.

Eddie

You will need to prove to Omega's lawyers that all these were in existence long before you started selling the watches.
Any WIS lawyers around here who are willing to chip in their 2 pence worth? Anyone willing to help Eddie out in this matter?

bettapugnax
17th November 2004, 07:56
Did you decide you wanted a thread all by yourself, bettapugnax? :roll: :wink:

Nobody seems interested in discussing this stuff....so, OK, I decided to talk to myself :lol: :lol: :lol: .

swanbourne
17th November 2004, 08:29
Well of course I have a small interest :wink:

Eddie

clay
17th November 2004, 09:37
Did you decide you wanted a thread all by yourself, bettapugnax? :roll: :wink:

Nobody seems interested in discussing this stuff....so, OK, I decided to talk to myself :lol: :lol: :lol: .

And can I add my 2 Pysants worth also............. :wink:

Crusader
6th January 2005, 17:17
Any progress with the bullies, by any chance?

swanbourne
6th January 2005, 21:58
Strange you should ask, just intimidation and irritation tactics at the moment. Sent me a further request for information on 13 December and received a fax tonight stating "If we do not hear from you by January 14, 2005, we intend to file a motion to compel with the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board."

The information they requested I already supplied back in September and they know it. They're pretending that pages were missing, etc but that's rubbish. They've already submitted a motion asking for more time to prepare their case so this is just further delaying tactics. They stated that their case was so strong, there were grounds for summary judgment without having to bother with a hearing but if this is so, why do they need more time to prepare their case? Could it be they don't have a case and they're still scratching to make one?

Anyway, I replied to them and sent copies of the information they already have on 31 December, they must have known there would be postal delays over the Christmas and New Year period yet here they are, on 6 January, pushing for a reply and making threats already. I told them if they wanted the information fast I'm happy to send it FedEx priority at their expense.

Eddie

Crusader
7th January 2005, 00:00
I have neber been a particular Omega fan, but their behavior is disgraceful. :evil:

Keep a stiff upper lip, Eddie!

abraxas
7th January 2005, 03:52
I have neber been a particular Omega fan, but their behavior is disgraceful. :evil:

..................

It's actually quite normal. :(

My advice would be not to waste any more money or time than absolutely necessary.

Advice is cheap ... and everyone has an opinion.

john

tempus
8th January 2005, 03:33
Either fax them (and get an automatic receipt) or Scan the documents and e-mail them, and ask for a receipt by e-mail.

Sounds like bullyboy stalling tactics. W@nk3r5!

Crusader
24th January 2005, 16:53
Just read this on Howard Marx's Westcoastime website:


all Broadarrow watches will no longer be made so those sold will be the last in the US available.

What gives?

swanbourne
24th January 2005, 18:20
Better ask Howard. I have of course told him what is happening but this is his statement, not mine.

Eddie

Joe.K
3rd February 2005, 17:44
Hi there
Long time reader first time writer..so here goes...
Omega either own the BroadArrow signature/name or not. It is provable and can be physically demonstrated or not.
Simply having a sporadic assosciation with a term that was actually only employed to descibe a common watch part does not prove or in fact imply ownership of the property.
Like many terms it takes someone to come along and explicitely register it as a trademark for it to become an actual property with it's own unique ascribable rights and benefits for its 'owner'.
One only needs to look at the names Omega have in reality registered(and when this was done in relation to the manufacture and distribution of that model/product)to see that they take ownership of their models seriously.
When they produce a range of watches or create a new manufacturing process they name it and register that name. The fact that they 'feel' a name/term should belong to them through some kind of vague
historical osmosis by association is naive at best and sad(but ruthlessly Swiss) at worst.
I have collected watches (military and civilian) for 20+ years and would be quite willing as I am sure many others would to go on record to say the first 'BroadArrow' watches were to my knowledge created by the company that bears that name .
Good Luck to you.
Cheers
Joe Kaye.

Mrcrowley
13th February 2005, 11:14
Maybe the Greeks should sue Omega? They were using that word long before the Swiss..................

abraxas
13th February 2005, 23:22
Maybe the Greeks should sue Omega? They were using that word long before the Swiss..................

Maybe you've got something there Paul ... :D

john

Neil.C
14th February 2005, 11:22
It's always been a mystery to me how Seiko use the name Flightmaster on of their modern chronographs when it was obviously used by Omega first. :o

Perhaps you could mention that Eddie?

swanbourne
14th February 2005, 12:31
The whole subject of trademarks is complex. First of all there are something like 30 different classes to cover the different categories of goods and you would have to register your mark in every class if you wanted exclusive usage of the mark for every possible product.

You can also register the mark used by someone else if you can show constant concurrent usage without problem; such usage usually having occurred over a minimum period of 5 years.

Perhaps Seiko had been using the name "Flightmaster" without any objection from Omega for a period of 5 years or more?

Eddie

Neil.C
14th February 2005, 14:43
Who knows?

Its certainly a convoluted topic.

I personally would have thought that Omega would have been more concerned with the usage of the name "Flightmaster" which was an actual Omega model rather than "Broadarrow" which is not a model name at all AFAIK.

KH2
15th February 2005, 13:04
He never responded to that suggestion Steve but I've received an anonymous e-mail with the plain language version of the attorney's letter.
==========================
A Memo to Eddie Platts from the Law Firm of Dewey, Takem and Howe

Dear Mr. Platts,

We herewith enclose a settlement offer on behalf of our well-heeled clients, which they desperately hope to sneak by you in a pathetic attempt to deprive you of your legal rights in this matter, in exchange for which they offer you more or less nothing (also known as zilch, squat, and the shaft). It is the fervent wish of our very powerful multinational zillionaire clients that you, your heirs and/or assigns voluntarily choose to forgo any and all legitimate claims you may have to the trademark in question without any payment of monetary or other compensation whatsoever.

We intend to follow up this pathetic sham of a settlement offer with a personal phone call designed primarily to ascertain whether you are, indeed, as incredibly gullible as our clients seem to believe you must be, and will therefore just surrender all legal claim to that which is quite obviously rightfully yours without putting up any sort of fight whatever.

In the event that our firm, in the course of further communications with you, determines that you seem to have at least a few brain cells still functioning, and are, therefore, not inclined to readily accept this, or subsequent offers in a similar vein, we will have no choice but to continue this almost-comical farce well-nigh indefinitely, in a vain attempt to wear you down by burying you under heaps of legal paperwork.

We look forward to a campaign of continued harassment on behalf of our clients, and are prepared to pursue this travesty on an ongoing basis, lining our own coffers in the process.

Sincerely,

The BS artists that Omega and the Swatch Group have hired to scam you

:shock: WTF, I didn't see this untill now......... :o :o
My English is not good enough to follow this language, am I really reading what I belive I am :
Our clients have no case and we know it, don't give in, this can only get better..........

Someone in that firm a WIS ?

Bruce
15th February 2005, 13:15
IFRC this was wrote in jest by someone :?:

KH2
15th February 2005, 13:16
For some reason I can not edit my own post :(

I had a second look at the memo


............. determines that you seem to have at least a few brain cells still functioning, and are, therefore, not inclined to readily accept this........

.....We look forward to a campaign of continued harassment on behalf of our clients.......
Sincerely,
The BS artists that Omega and the Swatch Group have hired to scam you

I love it, just love it :lol: :lol:
Not so sure the Swatch group would like it if they saw it though :?

KH2
15th February 2005, 13:32
IFRC this was wrote in jest by someone :?:

What is IFRC ?
If you meen someone had some fun I must honestly say it was my thought aswell. Pretty high risk ( stupid ) by a firm, or emloyee, sending out such confidensial material. Not to mention the language...
But it was fun reading :D

I would however guess Eddie did dobbelcheck the fax number and so on...

Bruce
15th February 2005, 13:54
If I remember correctly, also I think it was wrote in jest by someone on here :?:

KH2
15th February 2005, 14:09
If I remember correctly, also I think it was wrote in jest by someone on here :?:

In such case someone can expect a letter from my lawyer including a claim for forcing me into reading and comment on it :twisted:
Or perhaps I should call the Law Firm of Dewey, Takem and Howe, aka The BS artists that Omega and the Swatch Group have hired, and have them do a spotcheck and see if I still seem to have at least a few brain cells still functioning :lol: :lol: :oops:

Bruce
15th February 2005, 14:13
:D :D :D

bettapugnax
22nd March 2005, 03:48
It's always been a mystery to me how Seiko use the name Flightmaster on of their modern chronographs when it was obviously used by Omega first. :o

Perhaps you could mention that Eddie?

Seiko carries a big enough stick to fight off Omega. The sales volume of Seiko watches is probably more than Omega, anyway :lol: . Eddie's business is, ahem, a tad small :wink: . So it's the old story of big fish harassing small fish :D .

swanbourne
5th April 2005, 15:45
It's really difficult to believe the arrogance of these people. They've now made a submission to the US Trade Marks & Patent Office asking for summary judgement in their favour because their evidence is so overwhelming, there isn't any need to waste time listening to my counter arguments.

Eddie

jo.st
5th April 2005, 17:06
It's really difficult to believe the arrogance of these people.

Agree!

rfrazier
5th April 2005, 18:00
Is this something to which you are allowed/supposed to respond? If so, then it may be that they are trying to complicate things for you, so that you give up in frustration, or because of costs. It could be that their reason for asking for summary judgement has little to do with what they believe to be the merits of their case.

Best wishes,
Bob

Crusader
5th April 2005, 18:07
Is this something to which you are allowed/supposed to respond? If so, then it may be that they are trying to complicate things for you, so that you give up in frustration, or because of costs. It could be that their reason for asking for summary judgement has little to do with what they believe to be the merits of their case.

Best wishes,
Bob

They may even think that being brash, bossy and pushy may cover up an inherent weakness of their case. If I had a weak case, I'd put on a very brave face... whistling in the woods, in a way, to deter the other side.

Michael in Frisco, Texas
5th April 2005, 18:30
It's really difficult to believe the arrogance of these people. They've now made a submission to the US Trade Marks & Patent Office asking for summary judgement in their favour because their evidence is so overwhelming, there isn't any need to waste time listening to my counter arguments.

Eddie

If I recall, Eddie, in order to obtain a summary judgment, the moving party must prove that there is no question of fact, and that, as a matter of law, they are entitled to judgment. Having said that, if they say that their evidence is overwhelming, then it still remains a question of fact. Furthermore, since their widely publicized position is that Omega never sells their product over the Internet, and it is an established fact that Timefactors only sells over the internet, then they may have advance a contradictory argument. Most bigtime patent litigators try to abuse the process. Please keep close notice of all deadlines and such. When you have no evidence (as Omega has in this instance) most lawyers usually "pound the table".

For starters, I would conduct discovery on Omega asking them to produce all such documents or things showing or tending to prove the existance of the confusion of mark. Similarly, I would also ask for all documents and things showing or tending to prove invasion of or copy of trade dress. This is more...


I expect that Omega would object to producing this, claiming trade secrets. It is more likely that these items, which support the heart of their objections to your application, do not actually exist. After reviewing their purported "overwhleming evidence", then you should reply to their Motion for Summary Judgment ("MSJ").

Please note that most judicial fora require a written response/objection to any MSJ. There are also (usually) timetables within which objections and responses must be made, as well as the types of documents and affidavits allowed in support thereof.

Good luck.

swanbourne
5th April 2005, 19:00
Yes, I have time to respond and respond I certainly will. Their whole argument ignores information I have already given and they present a misleading case by ignoring this information.

I have not yet asked for any discovery but now may be the time to do so.

Eddie

Michael in Frisco, Texas
5th April 2005, 21:45
If there is anything I can do to assist, please let me know.

swanbourne
5th April 2005, 22:42
If there is anything I can do to assist, please let me know.

Thank you Michael. What will definitely help is for me to submit as many pictures of watches from different manufacturers which have the broadarrow mark (not name) on the dial. Please feel free to post them here.

Eddie

Crusader
5th April 2005, 22:54
Any number of O&W will be prime candidates, as will be the Orfina Beobachtungsuhr Ref. 6390B:

http://www.orfina.ch/Beobachtungs_Uhren_Index/6390-B-VS-.GIF

Hope that helps.

Crusader
5th April 2005, 22:59
Orsa and MWC also come to mind.

Nalu
7th April 2005, 18:59
Roy has photos of the O&W's on his site:
http://www.rltwatches.com/acatalog/Military.html

There is a broadarrow Longines on the splash page of Hyunsuk's Military Watch Gallery:
http://www.50717.com/

Bob (MWR) has a picture of a Smith's in his gallery:
http://www.broadarrow.net/smiths.htm :wink:

swanbourne
7th April 2005, 19:38
Thank you all, I found 14 watches of different brands with a broadarrow on the dial, exluding Omega :wink:

Eddie

Gert
7th April 2005, 19:44
Here is ma link to some luvly pics of JLCs and IWCs. The Swatch subsidiary's carnivorous IP lawyers may dismiss these as cheap, small watches made by the competition. But them arrows are broad :wink: :

http://www.markeleven.com and http://www.sfu.ca/~mmh/MarkX.htm

Give 'em hell, Eddie!

Gert

http://www.markeleven.com/images/JLC-6B-2134-1.jpg

http://www.sfu.ca/~mmh/m13065a.jpg

Crusader
7th April 2005, 20:48
I did not realize you were looking for the broadarrow as a British crown property mark, which would be the case for the military watches.

I thought you were looking only for the use of the broadarrow as a design element.

Stan
8th April 2005, 00:55
Perhaps these people should research the origin and use of the term?

I think an older organisation has the right to its use?

It was known as the "war department" in earlier days.

The G10/98 quartz has to have this emblem to qualify as an MoD procurement.

http://www.dstan.mod.uk/data/66/004/04000400.pdf

Do they want to get into a fight with the MoD?

I didn't. :lol: :lol:

Nalu
8th April 2005, 04:12
LMAO, military writing is the same all over the world.
:D
You are 'mos def', Stan :wink:

bettapugnax
14th April 2005, 09:53
It's really difficult to believe the arrogance of these people.

Agree!

So why do we still buy Omega and why the SM300 homage? :wink: :lol:

abraxas
14th April 2005, 10:24
.
'Dreadnought' is a Swiss + EU blend brand :shock:
http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t= ... 4251&rid=0 (http://forums.timezone.com/index.php?t=tree&goto=1214251&rid=0)

john

swanbourne
20th April 2005, 19:45
It looks like everybody is at it - and these people even use the logo!

http://www.sesto-senso.com/omega-shaving-brush.html

Eddie

Crusader
20th April 2005, 19:52
It looks like everybody is at it - and these people even use the logo!

http://www.sesto-senso.com/omega-shaving-brush.html

Eddie


Italy's number one brush maker. The Omega boar hair shaving brush is the best value on the market today!

:shock: One wonders why a boar would need shaving ... the mind boggles! :lol:

sundial
26th April 2005, 20:38
Eddie, Have you considered using the BROADARROW as the letter 'I' in TIMEFACTORS logo? ... and sending communication using same to Omega.

Duncan

swanbourne
26th April 2005, 21:04
Eddie, Have you considered using the BROADARROW as the letter 'I' in TIMEFACTORS logo? ... and sending communication using same to Omega.

Duncan

I have considered many things Duncan :twisted: but at this stage, I don't want to antagonise them (at least not any more). Their attorney is at least a $400 an hour man with assistants and expenses and it must have cost them a fortune so far.

Eddie

abraxas
27th April 2005, 08:57
.
New Omega Flight Master :oops:
http://www.equationoftime.com/forums/Wa ... ead=149229 (http://www.equationoftime.com/forums/WatchDiscussion/index.cgi?read=149229)

anon

swanbourne
27th April 2005, 09:00
Wonderful watch. :D

Eddie

Mrcrowley
27th April 2005, 09:03
That does look the business. Are they in the same price league as LM & MM?

abraxas
27th April 2005, 10:04
That does look the business. Are they in the same price league as LM & MM?

Higher. I think they are around 1.5K
http://ninanet.net/watches/others06/Med ... eikof.html (http://ninanet.net/watches/others06/Mediums/mseikof.html)
(More links of mov inside)

Sorry for high jacking the thread.

john

swanbourne
27th April 2005, 22:03
Just finished putting together my response to Omega's application for summary judgement. A few hours over the last 10 days, 6 hours today, 46 pages x 4 copies of arguments and exhibits. Man, I'm starting to get pissed off.

Eddie

rfrazier
27th April 2005, 22:07
Just finished putting together my response to Omega's application for summary judgement. A few hours over the last 10 days, 6 hours today, 46 pages x 4 copies of arguments and exhibits. Man, I'm starting to get pissed off.

Eddie

I suspect that they aren't really on to the power of the internet yet. (SCO certainly wasn't.) And don't understand the high quality research that can be done via it. So, they may be in for a surprise. E.g., instances of the BA being used in various places, with all singing and dancing exhibits of this.

Best wishes,
Bob

swanbourne
27th April 2005, 22:09
I'll show you all what's been going off when it's finished. If anyone's interested, that is.

Eddie

Michael in Frisco, Texas
27th April 2005, 22:44
Eddie,

Are the summary judgment motion and response being held to the US Federal Rules of Evidence and Civil Procedure?

If so, and submitting photographs, be sure that the photos are "properly authenticated" to avoid a hearsay objection for the opposing lawyers. I am confident that you have already been advised this though.

swanbourne
27th April 2005, 22:54
They are indeed under these rules Michael. I can't say too much right now because I'm sure that Omega's attornies could be reading this.

Eddie

Michael in Frisco, Texas
27th April 2005, 23:15
I understand. I was mentioning it because I expect them to try to keep all of your summary judgment evidence out. The evidence which would tend to show that their objection is filed in bad faith....

swanbourne
27th April 2005, 23:27
Well I'm sure they can try but the rules work both ways and perhaps some of their assertions could be argued to be hearsay. :wink:

Eddie

Nalu
3rd May 2005, 00:02
I'll show you all what's been going off when it's finished. If anyone's interested, that is.

Eddie

Definitely interested.

Flying Doctor
8th May 2005, 21:31
Considering that Omega claim that their Speedmaster is the ONLY watch to be worn on the moon (proven to be an outright blatent lie), it shows just what sort of people you are up against.

I'll bet this has cost Omega a shedload more than what they could have settled for.

Good luck Eddie.

Pete

swanbourne
8th May 2005, 21:43
I would have settled for less than they paid their attorneys in a week but not now and if I win.....................

Eddie

Neil.C
9th May 2005, 11:13
.
New Omega Flight Master :oops:
http://www.equationoftime.com/forums/Wa ... ead=149229 (http://www.equationoftime.com/forums/WatchDiscussion/index.cgi?read=149229)

anon

It always amazed me how Seiko could get away with calling their watch a Flight Master when the name obviously relates to an earlier Omega model and yet Omega have never had a model called a broad arrow. :?

Also regarding Seiko, The "B" on the second hand of the "britez" or whatever its called is surely a blatant copy of the Breitling idea even though obviously the script style is different.

Crusader
9th May 2005, 11:30
Also regarding Seiko, The "B" on the second hand of the "britez" or whatever its called is surely a blatant copy of the Breitling idea even though obviously the script style is different.

If Seiko is sufficiently bigger than Britebling, and if they have Omega's cheek, they'll just accuse Britebling of "pre-emptive copyright infringement" :wink:

bandylegss
9th May 2005, 11:47
Just a thought did omega ask the MOD if they could use the broadarrow name and if so did they inform the MOD they were then going to claim copyright ?
just a thought paul.

Paladin
30th May 2005, 00:28
I think Stan and Bandylegss have a point. This might be worth exploring. :wink:

swanbourne
30th May 2005, 10:35
The MoD never actually used Broadarrow as a name, in fact I'm not sure they even called the symbol "broadarrow".

Eddie

endure
30th May 2005, 13:02
I'm sure I've seen the broadarrow symbol somewhere before as an ancient Greek(?) symbol but I can't find it anywhere on the the net.

WatchScout
4th June 2005, 12:45
There is a cornucopia of variations of the broadarrow theme.

For example with shorter sidebars and longer central stem its the "Tyr Rune."

This was very much in vogue sixty years ago along with the "Wolfsangel" and many others.

Today the Tyr Rune is still in use amongst shall we say grups of different persuasion.

Some modern pagan religion also uses the Tyr Rune.

The Tyr rune, named after the Norse god Tyr, was the name of an ancient runic symbol. Tyr was a god of warfare and battle

Paladin
11th June 2005, 01:02
Use the other name Eddie, crow's foot.

You could go upmarket and change it to Eagle's Claw, of course. :shock:

Be creative, you have a lot to play with. :wink:

Crusader
11th June 2005, 06:13
Use the other name Eddie, crow's foot.

You could go upmarket and change it to Eagle's Claw, of course. :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Paladin
19th June 2005, 00:50
Any further update Eddie?

Some of us still like to tilt against the windmill. :wink:

swanbourne
19th June 2005, 09:54
Nothing heard for ages, I'll have to check the timetable of events today to make sure I haven't missed any deadlines.

Eddie

Paladin
26th June 2005, 02:16
That sounds like a lot of worry and hard work Eddie, I hope you achive your goal.

I'm glad I'm out of industrial politics. :wink:

Nalu
26th June 2005, 07:19
"Pheon", as noted on the MWR splash page, is another name for the Broadarrow symbol. The symbol's origins are British: Henry Sidney (whose Sidney family COA contains a pheon) was the Master of Ordnance under William and Mary. He used the broadarrow to mark all crown property, including the uniforms of prisoners.

jango
30th April 2009, 21:51
I'm intrigued. How did this one end?