Reply With QuoteNo you aren't alone - there have been not dissimilar posts recently from other members :?
It seems some of the AD's are suffering from people thinking along the same lines too.
And for what it's worth I always look forward to your diatribes Banana.
"Oh wow!" I murmur as I flick through some more images of excessively expensive watches on my laptop. The missus, in bed next to me murmurs her usual half-conscious question - "You looking at watch porn again?". Well, I like to get in the mood dear...
But for some years now there has been this little voice (sometimes more strident than the others :wink: ), that keeps telling me I am a gullible fool. I have spent a lot of money as a result of some very clever marketing it tells me. All I am really doing is buying the products of tow or three companies - Richemont, Swatch and Rolex. I am paying vastly inflated prices for trinkets that cost a mere fraction of their sales price to produce. And here's the rub - I know this!
I wouldn't do it with anything else - good grief I will spend hours on-line checking out the best deals if we need a new washing machine. I'll check the specs and the prices and reluctantly splash out a few hundred quid on a new Zanussi while thinking to myself "I could have bought a nice watch for that". But this kind of approach simply doesn't apply when it comes to watches. Why? Is it the ease of which I am able to convince myself that they are an investment of sorts? I mean they are small, and relatively easy to resell - so it isn't as if I have really spent those thousands is it?
I suppose there's money, and then there's "watch" money. Sort of like monopoly money - it isn't really real is it?
But somehow, regardless of all this, and my usual total resistance to marketing and sales flim-flam, I am still prepared to give very large sums of cash to a couple of large conglomerates. These aren't old family firms labouring for a lifetime in quaint little workshops up in the Swiss Alps. These are marketing and sales professionals in shiny suits. They have meetings where they out-psych us punters. We are their bitches. The own us. They are the pushers and we are the junkies.
Yet somehow we are happy to ignore this. "Oooh! Look at the shiny new Omega!" we coo. Let's ignore the fact that Omega are a part of the largest watch making group in the world who also make twenty quid plastic horrors that tell the time better than the ten grand Blancpain they have also cooked up.
So where am I going with this? I don't know is the short answer. But the slightly longer answer might be that I am becoming more inclined toward watches from the 1980's and earlier - watches that were produced when the watch industry really was made up of watch-makers who had learned their skills over a lifetime and laboured heart and soul to make me something special. Probably at the cost of their eyesight.
Anyhow, I have reached the end of my muddled meandering at 8am on this Saturday morning and my 18month old son is trying to insert a coathanger into an antique vase, so I had better go and rescue it. We have sat here for an hour, looking out of the window at the birds and the planes, and looking at some pictures of old watches on my Macbook. I think he'll like watches too when he gets older, but then again he might have a bit more sense than his old man and spend that twenty quid on a Swatch.
Regardless, as I write this I have just spent anther chunk of money on winning an Omega auction. But this time it's a vintage one. Back from when they had soul.
Am I alone in my confusion?
So clever my foot fell off.
No you aren't alone - there have been not dissimilar posts recently from other members :?
It seems some of the AD's are suffering from people thinking along the same lines too.
And for what it's worth I always look forward to your diatribes Banana.
Excellent as usual Bannana, and I have to agree I am the same when buying other things such as fridges and car servicing, I am a tight git who will hunt for the bargain and moan about spending £200 on it. However if it is a watch I'm literally throwing cash at my laptop, because its an investment - right :twisted:
Cheers
Simon
Ralph Waldo Emerson: We ask for long life, but 'tis deep life, or noble moments that signify. Let the measure of time be spiritual, not mechanical.
well, judging by the long rant this morning, getting in the mood last night didnt lead to anything :D :D
cheers
mike :wink:
Excellent musings from our resident Banana which I think reflects the thoughts of many of us WIS'rs on here.
I'm not so sure it's like that even for us, the watch fanatics! The way it goes, really, is that you set aside a watch fund, which could be from a 100 to 100k quid, depending on your financial situation, but this is usually after you have factored in all your other, primary expenses. And I find this totally acceptable, because it's what you would do for any other hobby....Originally Posted by TheFlyingBanana
This presumes that we, the WIS crowd, are the biggest/most important part of their clientele, and I just don't think it's true. The majority of the people who buy expensive watches could not care less about ceramic bezels, or about the advantages of the new ETA. They just care about what's written on the dial-and that's perfectly ok too. There are, on the other hand, small-sometimes even family owned companies-which exist simply because there are people exactly like us, who will buy their watches simply because we do appreciate their craftmanship.
Well, a 10k car will transport you from A to B almost as effectively as a 100k car-sometimes even more so, right? But, somehow, we don't picture cheap cars, when we're lottery-daydreaming!
If you want to talk about clever marketing in order to sell you something at an inflated price, you should think about your Macbook! Apple- now they're the really clever people when it comes to marketing....
I'm afraid, yes! :)
Nah, it's just that the rest of us are better at fooling ourselves :lol:
Alex
Great post! Thoroughly enjoyed reading it - it set my Saturday off to a nice start.
I think you're only partly right about the pushers and the junkies. Yes, there are marketing and sales geniuses working for the conglomerates. And they're bloody good because the competition is so intense and they know how to exploit the human weakness for shiny things. But there are also movement designers, and watchmakers and craftsmen who have a real passion for what they do and who've spent a lifetime perfecting their skills, just the same as they did in the 'good old days'.
I've recently read some stuff about Nic Hayek, and in my ignorance was surprised at his real and genuine passion for watches and the traditions inherent in watchmaking. He agreed to buy the ailing Breguet without the approval of the Swatch board (even though they were later in agreement) and would have done so himself - with his own money - even without their consent. Such is his enthusiasm and obsession. Even though Breguet is part of the Swatch Group, it's his very own baby and he wanted, and still wants, to keep alive and to build on the heritage and originality of Breguet. When you're a WIS and have as much money as Hayek - you buy a one of the oldest and most respected brands for yourself!
Watches today have as much soul as they've always had and are better made with better materials and better lubricants.
Enjoy your 'new' Omega!
Forget, "investment", it's the word we use to justify a purchase we shouldn't really make, if we are being honest. What brought you ,"here", was ,"passion", you have accumulated enough knowledge to know you can see through the, "marketing" and in spite of this you are still buying the products, so you aren't, "gullible", either. You have made adjustments to the types of watches you now buy, so your, "tastes" are changing, based on all the above and the need to keep it fresh and still retain the, "passion". Hopefully you can pass all this on to,"Banana-junior" and more of his cash can stay in his pocket.
By the way I'm passionate about white goods as well as watches. :D
Dave
Quite right! Spending vast amounts of money on new watches that are produced by international conglomerates whose pricing policy is driven by the need to satisfy bankers and shareholders and support a huge marketing campaign and maintain a retail network (shops placed on the most expensive real estate in the world - Bond St., 5th Avenue, Nevsky Prospekt, etc..), and with a consideration for their customers which borders on the contemptuous. Ridiculous.
Vintage watches - a much more intelligent and sensible way to pursue an interest in timepieces. Now all you have to do is find an old, knackered wristwatch that was issued to a lowly soldier or sailor as a basic piece of kit, is scratched to buggery and doesn't work and then hand over enough money to buy a reasonable family car or pay off a considerable slice of your mortgage in order to acquire it - you will, of course, never wear it.
Or, there is the possibility to find a watch that was mass produced 20 years ago but was so unpopular it was discontinued or dramatically changed, and today you will only have to pay 20 or 30 times the original price. Imagine paying 100 grand for Sinclair C5 or a Bond Bug, or 5 grand for a stylophone and it will put things into perspective.
Welcome to the common sense club. :lol:
Every time I walk past a few well known ADs I'm amazed at how "unbusy" they are with staff standing around chatting to each other and generally doing "Sweet Fanny Adams" . And I can't help noticing that those staff are nearly all ladies who seem to enjoy being "unbusy" so that they can chat. Sometimes I wander inside the shops to browse at their interior displays and then I can hear their conversations ie the usual things girlies talk about - nothing wrong with that if they have all that time spare as they would not be expected to stand their like statues. However, to me, it is all "downtime" and from a business perspective "unproductive" and an unnecessary £overhead.
Surely it's about time that these ADs got their acts together and started being more efficient to reduce their overheads and then maybe they might be able to offer better prices. I do not wish to buy a new watch, or piece of jewellery, or a new fountain pen from an AD when I know that 50% or more of the cost is gross margin partly necessary to fund all the "girly chats" and excess staff costs.
Thanks for reading.
Cheers
dunk
"Well they would say that ... wouldn't they!"
Oh sod it, I just wrote a great piece on not wanting expensive watches and how I buy vintage now...but I didn't submit it and lost the post :evil: I can't be bothered to write it again as I have to go out but vintage is the way to go you can get lots of pieces for not a lot of money and they are so much more interesting. :D
Macbook? You do know there's blokes in the papers who will build you a PC from a beige box and a bag of bits for a hundred quid, don't you? :lol:
If you hadn't picked up on that I would have done ;)Macbook? You do know there's blokes in the papers who will build you a PC from a beige box and a bag of bits for a hundred quid, don't you? :lol:
Buying something nice because you like it is one of life's little pleasures. I'm new to this game and every post above has floated aroud my head in one form or another today fairly recently (first big spend) - I tried looking at used, private, cheaper alternatives, lookalikes...
Then it just came down to 'pants, I want it' - working your buns off 9-5 is a thankless task and on the odd occasion you can enjoy the rewards amidst the washing, ironing and window cleaning... DO IT!
.
.
An interesting point about staffing levels. I was speaking to a Mercedes salesman
who told me that in the dealership he works in, there are always 2 extra salesmen.*
Salaries are cheap & if you come in to buy an expensive car & no-one can deal
with you, you're liable to go elsewhere. I suppose people who work in watch ADs
are on commission like car salesmen?
.
.
*Can someone explain how staffing levels are calculated?
.
.
______
Jim.
Yeah,
there used to be an option. There used to be a good and inexpensive watch company which excelled at quality and made everything in-house. They still do but but have moved lately a long notch further along the price continuum towards the stupid price category. This company is Seiko and I am afraid that they too are losing their hearts to greed and shortsighted design policies.
What a pity.
One word banana.......Sothis :D
Ah, but the masses don't buy Omegas in a vacuum. Omega market to us and we do the marketing for them to the mass-market. The uninformed Omega buyer knows the brand because we sing its praises. The market to a small number of tier one customers and let us market it to tier two. We're unpaid Omega Ambassadors.
And yes, men in shiny suits worked this out. Clever bastards.
Good rant, that has hit a nerve with a few people, including me.
I had limited myself until recently to what I think of a reasonably priced watches i.e. Precista, Stowa, Seiko etc, never going above £600, as I figured that I did not want to pay for a name.
That doesn't mean I did not lust after bigger brands, just that my brain and wallet overrode my heart.
Then I fell in love with the Rolex Explorer 1 (current version), and the offer of 0% interest tipped it, so I bought one brand new.
I know I have paid at least 50% for the name, I know I would take a hit if I flipped it in a few months time (I won't), but I just love the watch, and that's all that counts.
Cars are the same with me. I bought an Alfa Romeo, when a Ford would do at 25% less. Haven't regretted that decision either :D
Pete
Aha! But I don't buy my Macbooks, or PC Laptops. They come free from work! So there! You're sussed!If you hadn't picked up on that I would have done ;)Macbook? You do know there's blokes in the papers who will build you a PC from a beige box and a bag of bits for a hundred quid, don't you? :lol:
Buying something nice because you like it is one of life's little pleasures. I'm new to this game and every post above has floated aroud my head in one form or another today fairly recently (first big spend) - I tried looking at used, private, cheaper alternatives, lookalikes...
Then it just came down to 'pants, I want it' - working your buns off 9-5 is a thankless task and on the odd occasion you can enjoy the rewards amidst the washing, ironing and window cleaning... DO IT!
:D
So clever my foot fell off.
Indeed. Sothis is what I am reduced to. Sothis is what I have become.
:wink:
So clever my foot fell off.
"Sussed" :lol: :lol:
God love him, you can't beat the oldies. You really do make me smile :toothy3:
I had this argument with myself a while ago, thankfully before I had money to spend on watches.
Where I've got to is I'm happy to buy at higher prices to reward innovation and hard work. I have a Sinn 103 UTC. As far as I'm concerned, Sinn as a company are innovative, and that makes their watches worth more to me. I have a Stowa Marine Original on order, Stowa seem to put a lot of work into their watches, again this makes them worth more to me.
I'm also happy to buy at a higher price for something that I can accept is jewellery. My JLC Reverso was a gift but I'd buy it again with my own money. I completely accept that really it's jewellery, not a watch.
The only place I have a problem is the Rolex Submariner. It's a lovely watch, just a little too expensive for what it is. The only problem is that no-one really imitates it well enough. Other companies get there with the styling or the build quality, but rarely both. I don't think many watches are as effortless either. Rolex just seem to be able to make a watch that is a watch, that you can put on, wear and exist with. That's really what I'm looking for right now. I don't think I'd mind dinging a Sub because I know that's what it's for. The closest I've got so far is a Marathon GSAR but it's just not built quite as well as the Rolex. I have got a bracelet en route for it though so perhaps that'll do the trick.
Omega are almost there, but to be honest I don't think I like the way they've marketed themselves recently. Love their vintage pieces though.
I can follow your thoughts Mr. Banana, there's nothing wrong with you, happened to me a year or two ago.
I hope you can stay on that path and still be a happy WIS, it is possible you know.
I'll be showing you a picture that might help you convince that you are going in the right direction.
Are you working to give your money (he's gone now, I know) to this kind of tossers :shock: :D
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Which is why small independs like TFactors & MKii are getting all my money now.
Amen Brother Banana :lol:
Lot of deep thinking going on there Banana.
My watch buying tenet has always been "Can you get all your money back on this?"
If the answer is yes and I like it I buy it. :)
Of course you won't generally be able to answer yes on a brand new watch but the watch advertising I drool over comes from old pages of National geographic. :wink:
Cheers,
Neil.
Good honest watches indeed, but generally homages to models from Blancpain, Omega etc.
Someone had to design the originals in the first place, bring them to market, create the demand and make them successful and that all costs money (especially when the same could be invested in unsuccessful models).
I certainly don't defend the price lists of many watch companies, but there are some very simplistic views out there.
Excellent post by the way Banana
Good honest watches indeed, but generally homages to models from Blancpain, Omega etc.
Someone had to design the originals in the first place, bring them to market, create the demand and make them successful and that all costs money (especially when the same could be invested in unsuccessful models).
I certainly don't defend the price lists of many watch companies, but there are some very simplistic views out there.
Excellent post by the way Banana
Well, not exactly. The models being produced by TF and MkII are based on military watches; they were not designed, they were created in response to a set of military specifications - so without the M.O.D. or Les Nageurs de Combat, these watches would not have existed. They were never brought to market and no demand was created. As you say, there are some very simplistic views out there.
Agree 100% with those sentiments, perhaps most crucially I view money spent on an appliance as gone forever never to be a seen again whereas money spent on a used watch as merely resting in a different asset class :wink:
"I looked with pity not untinged with scorn upon these trivial-minded passers-by"
I have to admit I have had similar feelings taking me towards vintage or just older stuff. For some reason they are just more satisfying.
Another thing I often think to myself is if a watch is still reliably keeping good time after say 10 years then it must be a good solid bit of engineering. In some ways I will trust it more then a new watch, any device especially mechanical devices can suffer from Infant mortality. I have seen it time and time again in industry, buy in 50 or 100 units all thoroughly tested and 2 of them will fail within in a matter of weeks. The others may go on trouble free for many years. So yes for me its not just the money to buy a new watch, you probably have to deal with a bunch of idiots in one of the large chains of high street stores, and then no matter the brand there is always the chance your one of the unlucky ones that buys a dud.
nice post.
its not just a case of the emperor wears no clothes. theres alot of smoke and mirrors in the marketing for sure. suddenly awake, clammy with fear as if jolted from a dream, as the realisation slowly dawns that youve been supping from the devils nips all these years- welcome to the layer cake my son. :twisted:
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
Hi all!
Newboy here,Marius out of Norway!
My compliments to the Banana`s semi(?)-rant,you`ve just put my thoughts down in writing.
Watch money is by no means real money,when I found the one perfect orange dial Heuer diver i`d been wanting for a loong time,I gladly paid the rather hefty BuyItnow + an unheard of 150$ shipping &handling fee.(I don`t even want them to handle my watch at all,much less pay them to do so,just send me the thing for chrissakes!)Whereas setting up the household budget,or ocassionaly having to shell out for replacement householdappliances or God forbid;New Curtains for the living room (cause they`re really nice aren`t they dear..?) I cringe and stall and sometimes I can actually feel the global credit crunch trying to suffocate me with a pillow just before I nod off!
And I`m not a stingy man,the kind who would let his children run barefeet in the cold norwegian winter,or dry and re-use old tea bags to save money.
I get flowers and dresses for the missus,pick up nice gifts for the wee ones for no reason and all that,but even as I do so,I can translate these minor gests and offerings to domestic peace & harmony into great big shiny watches that I`m missing out on..
It is not a hobby,I`m quite certain it is a chemical imbalance of the brain.
And the Orange dial Heuer is only the latest of a long list of mindless transactions I`ve carried out over the years,most of them involving vintage watches.
So anybody who thinks that`s a cleaner and more sane road to embark upon,..well,you`re wrong.
Vintage usually just means crappier and even more expensive.Though the shapes and colour schemes they used when making Divers back in the 70s are nearly worth it.. No actually,I think they are in fact worth it,I`m pretty sure they are.
A quartz too far..
Thanks for giving me an opportunity to vent,seems like a really nice place this. :bom:
Cheers!
Marius
Nice post Marius!
You are clearly made for TZ.
So clever my foot fell off.
Totally agree with what you are saying, however perhaps the problem is your ref to a "nice shiny new Omega". Perhaps you would find more satisfaction in a true Omega i.e. one which pre-dated Swatch or even Rolex BEFORE they were making 1,000,000 watches per year (so anything with a serial number which actually starts with a number (rather than a letter).
I came to the same conclusion a few years back hence now go vintage - my rationale being
1) I lose less money - might even be a bit of an asset/heirloom
2) I buy the original "handmade" version rather than the re-issued machine made knock off
3) I enjoy the thrill of the chase - rather than wandering in to a AD with a credit card!
4) I enjoy doing the research - just to make sure that it pucka (or at least a very good fake :) )
5) I enjoy finding the bits to make them complete/working - hence sometime will buy fix-a-uppers"!
6) perhap mostly i enjoy the history behind the watch - which gives it soul
Finally I think the idea of owning something which is unique - yep I know that there are shed loads of 5513's, 16800's and 16750's around but non are identifical to mine.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
wonderful post! and very true....
ktmog6uk
marchingontogether!
you see, i'm having a similar rant recently...
Alright ive just spent a fair whack on a nice watch BUT i've sold my PS3 (dont play it), thinking of selling the majority of my HC kit - again dont use it, just keep simple hifi, spend the rest on creating a future for my 6 month old daughter.
It sets things in perspective when you realise how well off you 'really' are compared to so many.
Anyway, wife is quite happy about my change of tune. So am I but she wont get me selling my watches!
Nt
Good post Mr banana man. I'm right with you.
:thumbright:
I honestly can't be arsed buying awatch just now, i could go out and get one tomorrow but i just don't see the point in paying the prices that they're going for these days, i don't know if it's old age or boredom but i just don't get excited anymore walking into an AD and seeing a GMT IIC that costs £4400 or a Sub LV at £4000 and thinking i want that :(
Old age :D
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Posting Permissions
