Reply With QuoteWhilst I've never owned one, I have handled a few at various GTG's & have always been impressed with the build quality .. as for them being "fashion items", I guess most watches can & do fall in that category.
B&R has taken a bit of pasting here recently for being a pricey fashion watch with a cheap movement. But I played with one of their Type Demineur watches the other day and was very impressed with the fit and finish - not sure if it's worth 700 notes, but this is pitched right between the Longines Hydroconquest and Omega Seamaster quartzes, and alongside the Tag Aquaracer, all of which have the same or similar movement. Which strikes me as about right, really.
It's not the last word in horology, sure, but the antimagnetic feature might come in handy. Any comments? Anyone own one of these?
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Whilst I've never owned one, I have handled a few at various GTG's & have always been impressed with the build quality .. as for them being "fashion items", I guess most watches can & do fall in that category.
/vince ..
It's a model from the "old" B&R, I don't know if thney are still making it.
Quality is decent enough.
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I think some B&R is quite nice. Eg the old rebadged Sinn jobs, although I could never quite understand why they cost so much more than the Germans. It's the giant wrist clocks that I don't get.
I agree though - not notably out of place in that company - but they (Tag, Omega, Longines) are all watches that sell on brand to a large degree, and to people who will never consider the movement. Same with B&R I guess. In other words, I'm not singling out B&R - the odd ones are the "value" manufacturers who don't pitch the price as high as possible.
Also, at higher prices I think it's more difficult to justify or accept a cheap movement. I don't necessarily expect anything too fancy for £700, but for two grand I most certainly do.
A very nice example, excellent quality and finish:
Regards
Be interesting to see a line-up from the "old" B&R - by which I take it you mean the line of watches made by Sinn before B&R developed its own production capability?Originally Posted by Daddelvirks
As to price, the B&R Marine/Demineur is around £200 more than an equivalent Sinn; I used the 656, although the B&R has a rotating bezel and a cheaper movement (ETA 955 vs 2824). I guess that evens out. Given that Sinn doesn't have much distribution or advertising at all, I'd say that was about right.
Anyway both models are still in the catalogue. Interestingly the Space 3 - which took over from the Space 2 which was contracted out to Sinn - is also in the catalogue but is NLA. It is, or was, a conspicuous bargain amongst well-made automatic chronos, being listed at "only" £1,500 on a bracelet (cf. Omega, Tag, Breitling etc.) and looked very well specified.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Yes, they were on the right track for a time, that Space3 model was very reasonably priced indeed.Be interesting to see a line-up from the "old" B&R - by which I take it you mean the line of watches made by Sinn before B&R developed its own production capability?
As to price, the B&R Marine/Demineur is around £200 more than an equivalent Sinn; I used the 656, although the B&R has a rotating bezel and a cheaper movement (ETA 955 vs 2824). I guess that evens out. Given that Sinn doesn't have much distribution or advertising at all, I'd say that was about right.
Anyway both models are still in the catalogue. Interestingly the Space 3 - which took over from the Space 2 which was contracted out to Sinn - is also in the catalogue but is NLA. It is, or was, a conspicuous bargain amongst well-made automatic chronos, being listed at "only" £1,500 on a bracelet (cf. Omega, Tag, Breitling etc.) and looked very well specified.
They do not turn up for sale very often, and when they do can be bought for a bargain.
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I don't think £1500 for a fairly ordinary 7750 watch is cheap tbh. Isn't that about 50% more than the equivalent Sinn? I think Sinn is the obvious comparator, because they made B&R for a time and because the watches appear similar in terms of quality and internals.
B&R don't compare to Omega or Breitling in my book, not least because the movements are inferior and unmodified (as far as I know). Maybe Tag is a fair comparison, but I also consider them overpriced for the quality.
I guess if resale values hold up, none of that matters.
I think B & R makes really good stuff. the early models that Sinn made for them were not as well finished as the later models that they made themselves. comparing one of the Vintage series models to a basic recent Omega like the Omega Dynamic, I would say they are very comparable in finish quality of the cases and more importantly the dial and hand quality. Sinn dials and hands are not as finely made. or designed for that matter. the movements are the same ETA movements that everyone uses yes. Yes, Omega did a little bit of tweaking with 2892 it was putting in the Dynamics and non-coaxial SMPs, but who would really pay extra for that. yeah, B&R is a bit overpriced, but what can we do? it's not like there's a lot of choices when you like their designs. very few brands now do those military inspired designs.
I see their big square BR models are now wildly popular. good for them. I don't like them much though. I hope they'll still keep making the more traditional designs from the Vintage and other lines.
It's cheap compared to a £2k Omega, Breitling or Tag and to my mind at least, has equivalent quality although the satin finish says "cheap" to a lot of people.
Yes, it's more than the Sinn, although its crown/pusher arrangement is more sophisticated and the Sinn equivalent is no longer made. B&R also advertises and has dealers where you can go see the watch and play with it, and all that costs money; I do like the idea of a Sinn, but if I could swan into an Ernest Jones and take a look at any of them, they'd be a great deal pricier.
Sure - and Sinn is often favourably compared to the mainstream brands in terms of quality of finish.I think Sinn is the obvious comparator, because they made B&R for a time and because the watches appear similar in terms of quality and internals.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
It's not the finish I object to, it's the the movement. Tag might not, but Omega and Breitling do rework the movements a bit, and Breitlings are all chronometers - this is the reason I consider them a clear cut above something like B&R with basic ETA or Sellita movements. They work better as watches.
But I must admit I don't know a huge amount about B&R - if their models are COSC certified, for example, that would make me think a bit more care had gone into the movement. Are they?
I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about ordinary watches dressed up to look special. It's not just B&R by any means, and these things are all a question of what's important to a particular buyer.
All v good points, if there's one thing that turns me off the more expensive B&Rs it's the relative ordinariness of the movement given the price. B&R maintains that the motor in the BR-01/03 is a worked ETA 2982 but that doesn't seem to have been borne out by the independent tests; and the chrono in the Vintage range is purportedly a 7750 worked in-house to relocate some of the subdials - although the rotor appears to wind both ways on brief inspection, so who knows what it is.
The basic movements (none are chronometers to my limited knowledge) are apt given the simple, toolish nature of their watches - but the prices aren't in many cases. Good 2nd-hand buys, though, I bet.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Well, plenty of people like them enough to buy, and I guess that's the acid test. Life would be dull if we all liked the same things.
The vintage series has a 2894 piggy-back chrono inside, and as the photo's in the German magazine showed, a very basic movement, nothing reworked.All v good points, if there's one thing that turns me off the more expensive B&Rs it's the relative ordinariness of the movement given the price. B&R maintains that the motor in the BR-01/03 is a worked ETA 2982 but that doesn't seem to have been borne out by the independent tests; and the chrono in the Vintage range is purportedly a 7750 worked in-house to relocate some of the subdials - although the rotor appears to wind both ways on brief inspection, so who knows what it is.
The basic movements (none are chronometers to my limited knowledge) are apt given the simple, toolish nature of their watches - but the prices aren't in many cases. Good 2nd-hand buys, though, I bet.
And that's what pisses me of as well :wink: .
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
This one is a piggy-back too. If the running seconds are on the right, keep on walking.A very nice example, excellent quality and finish:
Regards
john
Costume jewellery. Ouch!!!
I have to respectfully disagree. I have 3 "piggy-back" chronos (all ETA 2892 based), and I'm very satisfied with them all. Even if it's true that the chrono add-on is not easy to repair, I think there's an advantage in not being integrated in the movement: if it breaks, it's only the chrono functions that ares affected, not the time function (as in integrated chronos). An interesting "safeguard" to me!
Regards,
Rui
That might well be the case, but you have to get it back for repair anyway, and that may well be a costly one.I have to respectfully disagree. I have 3 "piggy-back" chronos (all ETA 2892 based), and I'm very satisfied with them all. Even if it's true that the chrono add-on is not easy to repair, I think there's an advantage in not being integrated in the movement: if it breaks, it's only the chrono functions that ares affected, not the time function (as in integrated chronos). An interesting "safeguard" to me!
Regards,
Rui
Plus, the crown/pusher arrangement is not so pleasing for the eye.
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
In the ETA 2894 chrono movement (the most commonly used), the crown and pushers are aligned, unlike in some other "piggy-back" chronos.
Rui
Post your Bell & Ross watches for us to see!
Prices seem to have sky rocketed since Andrew first posted this thread.
http://www.jurawatches.co.uk/watches-li ... 77&type=12
A 1000 of your notes for a basic ETA quartz based on an old Sinn design. This must be one of the worst VFM watches out there at the moment.
Here's a crap pic of mine, I must confess I couldn't really give a toss about the movement, I just like the watch, that's it really...
Here is a pic of my "piggy back" chrono B&R
Sometimes I want to flip it and put it in the SC.
But when I put it on my wrist ,it's not so bad ...
The watch is well done and nicely finished.
Of course all the mouvements are ETA based,but a large part of european watch production are exactly the same.
Check the pic out of the square bell and ross i know it sounds picky but i would expect the screws to be lined up on a watch in that price range or any in fact ?
The often overlooked BR02.
Excellent build quality, very chunky, but very tactile too. More wearable than a BR01/03 IMO.
Personally I think it would not look right with all the screws facing in the same direction.
I don't know about the worst - there's plenty out there that's got no manufacturing or finishing finesse at all. But it's hard to argue against the cheapness of the movement; the price difference between a zero-jewel Chinese manufactured disposable jobbie and even the 7-jewel gold-plated movement in this one (I've looked) is less than £20 at retail. In fact I've just bought a ETA 955.412 (similar, but designed to take a conventional small battery) to put in a beater, and it was only £20 before taxes.
At the time, the Marine/Demineur was priced between Longines and TAG dive watches of similar spec; now at RRP they're asking more than one, and much more than the other. All I can say is, glad I bought it when I did ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
As a designer i disagree on the last post the screws are not all facing the same direction but at least they are matching the opposite screw position, i think this shows attension to detail which as i memtioned earlier at that price point i would expect.
Here's my Vintage 126XL. I had problems after I bought it and B&R were a more than a bit slow in stepping up when it needed sending back after 9 days. It then went missing when they sent it back and didn't have one in stock so even more delays. However after 4 months I got it back and I still love how it looks not too emotional about the movement though.
Slight diversion but I picked up an NFW whilst in the US earlier in the year. B&R lookalike but nicely made out of surgical ss with a Miyota movement at really sensible pricing. Apologies for lack of piccies but well worth a look
Here´s my BR02.
Great build quality. Case, dial, the crowns (the rubber on the crowns smell vanilla, not that it matters but I thought it was a nice surprise) and the two straps (Rubber, Velcro) Looks and feel very well built.
I don't know anything about the movement and I don't care that much either. As long as the watch keeps good time I'm happy and this one did.
Seems like allot of people complains its too expensive but I have to disagree.
I mean, for £2Ksomething you get a watch that's only made in 500 ex a year and imo is one of the coolest looking dive watches out there. The BR02 have the same quality as your regular Omega PO, Breitling Steelfish/Seawolf or Panerai (The base models) but is so much more fun.
it is however leaving me tomorrow. Traded it for a watch that I've wanted for quite some time now. But I'm sure there will be another BR02 in my collection some day.
Cheers.
/CJ.
Nearly there ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Niiiiiiice!
Another for the thread:
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
+1
Some of them are nice, but why so expensive? They should be about the same price of Hamilton.
Have yet to find an AD with them in the window, here in the UK (but I have never specifically searched for them)
So should Sinn, on that basis (not sure what basis you're using, mind, but Sinn seems like a good place to start ;)).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
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