Reply With QuoteNos still needs servicing
I bought a NOS ETA movement for a Porsche Design quartz chronograph. The seller, a professional, had two offers - guaranteed lubricated and functioning and non-guaranteed (apart from guaranteed NOS). I bought the no-guarantee version for about 40 quid and the watchmaker I took it to in order to have it fitted told me he had to work on it quite a bit to lube and regulate it, as it had gone dry in storage.
So NOS is no guarantee of being functional, and it is perfectly feasible that the movement was indeed correctly described and your watchmaker is wrong.
Nos still needs servicing
I was ready to be outraged...I wanted to be outraged...but...really?
More to the issue, you have been on here for 11 years and contributed 315 posts in yet you ask advice from a forum where you have given very little..
If your getting this worked up over £20 then your lack of contribution here is welcome..
I've a lot of things to thank my wife for, one of which is is teaching me to value my non work time. Work out a rate for your leisure time and you will find that problems like this can invariably be shared with the bin.
Quality advice! We are here a short time, enjoy it don’t stress and waste your time on none issues! Family time, chill time making memories not arguing over £20!!!Originally Posted by raysablade
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I think you may well be right.
where did you get the spare movement from for the 7T27? I went to swap the movement over this morning, tested the donor and it's dead. It doesn't look new though, it looks like an old 7T27 (hence the black date disc) with a YM57A back plate put in the packet which wasn't even attached to the movement. [/Quote]
I definitely should not have left it a year but getting it repaired is not very high up my list of priorities at present. I asked the seller to check they had not sent me the broken movement by accident and if they had any idea why it appears to not be NOS as described, which feels fairly reasonable in the circumstances.
I should've stuck a battery in it when I received it.[/QUOTE]
Honestly why waste the time arguing over it. It’s annoying but let it go enjoy yourself not fighting over a tiny amount.
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Wow.
I do have a genuine small claims
Issue worth pursuing for a bigger number. Fancy completing the application for £20 for me if you are at a lose end!
No, willing to help if you try and get stuck though!
You’d honestly never win this case in court.
It’s your word against his and anything could have happened to the movement in the year you’ve had it.
A judge would most probably throw the case out; once he’s stopped laughing!
Unreal
It's just a matter of time...
I'm generally inclined to be sympathetic on here and other forums. Tone can be misinterpreted, people can have a bad day, emotions can run high during times of challenge, and there but for grace of God go I etc.
But in your case, and as you did ask for thoughts, I'll be honest. 1. You need to develop a more healthy sense of perspective, 2. I will never sell you anything.
I’m pretty sure you’re not alone here!
Wow!
I think you asked advice on here for a scenario that no one seems to be able to associate with and you have your answers!
A £20 movement and after a year of being untouched it doesn’t work plus your watch guy says it’s been used???
I would suggest that on several levels you don’t have a leg to stand on and unfortunately I’m guessing you have let your true colours out and many will stay well clear rather than have a deal with yourself if this is how you are thinking about acting over a £20 item from a year ago?!?!?
Anyway I would suggest you listen to the guys in the thread as if you do indeed try to take it to small claims court it will end up costing you, not the guy that sold you the movement!
Lesson learnt I would say, don’t buy a NOS movement for £20, then leave it alone for 365 days but then expect it to work perfectly when you go to use it?
Unless it’s a new item with a warranty you don’t have a leg to stand on plus it’s £20, I know you say it doesn’t matter but really, it’s £20?!?!
OP now added.
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
how does it feel to have so much spare time that you're willing to take someone to court over 20 quid?
indeed
Please don't buy anything from sales corner .......ever
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Hahshhshahahhahahahhshshahahhahajkjbhhahahahahahha hahsjhshaha.
Get a life.
Friendly forum, this.
I’d be annoyed, £20 or £2000. Some of the comments here are unbelievable, saying he hasn’t posted enough to allow him to ask a question etc.
Doesn’t paint anyone in a good light imo.
Personally, I’d contact the seller but not expect anything in return, but ask watchmaker what it’ll cost to get it working, and either bin it or sort it.
My major problem would be trying to find the contact details of a £20 eBay purchase from a year ago.
He is funny, please don't break him.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Ernie, move on with your life.
Ernie, never offer to buy anything I ever post on SC.
Ernie, thank you for today’s ‘pre-footie’ chuckle!
Ernie, we all thank you for your valued contribution and the entertainment.
Ernie, I am sorry that movement turned out to be shit.
Ernie, I hope the next movement you buy is not shit.
Ernie, treat yourself to a drink of water and move on with your life and all the very best to you.
If he asked a general question no problem, but to ask advice/help from the membership about going to small claims over a £20 defunkt movement a year after purchase without making much of an effort himself paints a picture of the OP.
Everything I wanted to say (and then some) has already been said, so I've left off what is already a busy thread. But I think the key point you're missing is that the OP is looking for recourse a year later. A buyer has a responsibility to check the item over as soon as possible when buying over distance to avoid exactly this kind of issue. I've bought and sold on eBay and SC and I can tell you I have very little record of activity 6 months ago, let alone a whole year. However during the sale and then the delivery, I'll follow up to make sure everything has gone smoothly so I can draw a line under it.
Simon, it's not feasible in this case. I'll have another go at explaining the situation.
The broken movement was sent with the back-plate from a newer variant of the movement. The most likely explanation is that someone has swapped the back-plates over and then sold the broken movement as NOS. That person would have known the movement is broken and therefore they intended to deceive, presumably hoping this would not be discovered until after the refund period has elapsed. I would guess they then went on to misrepresent the repaired watch (a Seiko RAF Gen 2) with the new movement/old back-plate as being original.
I will trust the repairer, a well respected member here who I found via this forum, who has inspected it over those who have not seen it. The seller now also accepts the repairer's assessment as a neutral third party. If the repairer had said it is NOS but dead I would've had no complaint.
It must be fairly common that parts of all types are not used immediately. I certainly have some other parts, including out of production parts (mostly bike/car) kept on hand because of the difficulty finding them or to prevent delay in getting back on the road. Indeed whoever made the swap banked on that fact.
Yes, I should've realised earlier that the movement was mis-matched and broken parts but checking a movement when it's not in a watch and without hands is not something I've done before. This is my first foray into having an older watch repaired.
I also regret going over the top with the seller at first, I suppose it is because I think honesty and trust is very important. Once I recognised and rowed back from that frustration we were able to resolve this.
I do not find deception acceptable, and I'm surprised to find so many of you do. More likely I would guess that no-one here thinks selling old broken parts as new is acceptable but having taken one position, many people (myself included) find it is very hard to change it because cognitive dissonance kicks in. I also did not describe the situation very well and this has led to some misunderstanding the situation.
I'm sadly not surprised to see another thread on TZ turn rather nasty, there have been quite a few recently. Maybe that's a phenomenon of internet forums in general and not peculiar to this one.
I have never had a problem with the occasional purchases I have made here, although I cannot say the same of eBay. I'll continue to visit to keep up to date with Eddie's new watches and original British military watches. Given the infrequency of my SC use it's not too much hardship if some don't want to deal in future but rather sad.
Thanks for all the advice, and particularly to those who take the time to understand the situation before posting.
Last edited by ernestrome; 6th July 2018 at 14:07.
You are having a giraffe? Move on nothing too see.
Look I have had a dig in this thread about your reason for asking for help from the members here, but I really think you are missing the point most of us are making, Everyday people make bad decisions, some with big and small financial losses, yes sometimes your pride is knocked and I agree honesty is the best policy, but surely being knocked for £20 is not worthy of getting worked up over - just see it as a life lesson and that eBay may not be all that it seems.
Honestly I truly believe you have done yourself no favours by creating this thread.
It is buyers like you who make it difficult for the rest of us and why so many now refuse to sell through eBay. I can sympathise with you that your movement doesn't work, but you get no sympathy for taking a year to kick up a storm. As eBay members we all agree to play by the rules and in your case (as a buyer) eBay gave you 180 days to file a dispute but you waited a year to even check if the item you purchased worked. What you are trying to do now is create an unlimited never ending give me my money back rule and that's taking the p*ss.
As it happens, I think you've explained yourself very well here. If there was a sense of disbelief, i think it was more in respect of your willingness to commence a potentially prolonged and unpleasant process for so little tangible reward (if any - in fact, you could very conceivably suffer a financial loss instead) as opposed to any matter of principle with regard to the goods received.
Anyway, you know what they say about pursuing legal remedies on the basis of principle, right?
lol.
A fool's errand I suppose?
I'm looking forward to getting the watch repaired and wearing it soon.
Buying NOS quartz movements is risky to say the least, especially off ebay. I would always strip, clean and re-oil a NOS movement even if it seemed to run OK. The big problems arise if the circuitry isn't working, dead circuit = dead movement. If the reason the watch won`t run is due to dirt or dry lubricants the movement can be resurrected but someone has to be paid to do this work.
In this case it sounds like the seller hasn`t been totally honest, but the OP was pushing his luck in buying a NOS quartz movement of ebay and expecting it to be a simple 'fit it and it'll work OK' situation.
Most repairers are far happier sourcing parts or movements themselves, it's the best way to deal and it avoids pitfalls. It doesn`t take much to wreck a quartz movement through rough handling and it's very easy to get dirt/dust in them.
Buy stuff second-hand off ebay and you take a risk, sometimes it has to be done but you have to accept that. In this case it would've made sense to test the movement with a battery immediately, but even then the seller could claim it was OK when it left him and it's quite feasible for dirt to get in if the movement's handled roughly. On many ETA movement's it's v. easy to scratch the coil and kill the circuit, great care must be taken when handling the movement or even swapping a battery.
Paul
That's true Paul. The attraction of NOS was not having to do the date wheel swap. Having learned from this I have bought a new movement and swapping the date wheel over.
A word to the wise OP - the judge would not be laughing and would likely be very annoyed that you had taken up precious judicial time over 20 quid. They don't like the courts being clogged with points of principle.
This response made my Friday evening.
Life is an ernestrome
Served up with parmesan cheese
Death is a cold Lasagne
Suspended in deep freeze
It's £20! What's your hourly rate for whatever job you do? Do the maths. Please try to keep some perspective in all of this and follow Optimum's sage advice.
Now, enjoy the forum and relax.
Finding a movement is secondary, he should be finding a new watchmaker if he couldn’t tell it was dud immediately and wants to charge!
OP,
Get a grip pal.
Its not just the OP's time that has been wasted though is it? It's everyone else's time as well, and as we all know, some these TZ guys are big hitters. I'm now thinking of starting a group action and pursuing the OP through the small claims myself.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
I'm the repairer, I established it was dud and certainly not NOS as soon as the watch was on the bench. This was three days after receiving it from ernestrome, I then informed him straight away. Also this incident has added no extra cost to the original quote which was for either a straight movement swap, or a movement and date disk swap (costs slightly more) depending on what replacement movement he sent me.
I think ernstromes comment of "I've got to pay the watch repairer for his time and find a new movement" relates to the fact he now has to buy a NOS movement with a white date disk which will have to be swapped for the original movements black one, therefore the cost will be based on the latter part of my quote.
The dud movement already had a black date disk fitted which had it have been good would have been based on the first (slightly lesser) cost quoted.
It's all a storm in a teacup really but I can identify with ernstrome to a certain degree, I bought a NOS 6138 centre wheel for stock when I saw one come up on ebay. Sealed in it's original Seiko blister pack I put it away with the others I have in stock and got to use it about a year or so later when a job came up that needed it. When I opened the packet it came open rather easily and the wheel was dud and definitely not NOS. Being "sealed" I'd only checked through the perspex blister that the pinion was the longer length, now I try and open any NOS stock I buy in blister packs, if they've never been opened they're incredibly hard to peel apart.
I would imagine the seller in my case had used the NOS wheel on his watch, put the duff one in the blister pack, carefully glued it back together then sold it to me for over £100 all the time crossing his fingers I wouldn't complain until the statuary Paypal dispute time had elapsed. He was right and I was shafted!
I couldn't find the part of this thread where it says I couldn't immediately tell it was dud and I want to charge more, I'm not sure where you read that!
Pm’d You, my comment was a throwaway joke, not intended to cause offence!
No offence taken, I just thought I’d give ernstrome a little moral support 👍🏻
I’m a bag of nerves - COME ON ENGLAND!!
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