Reply With QuoteIve always just plugged mine into the cigarette lighter. I don't need it in front of my face because the audio is more than sufficient. Anything else becomes a distraction (why I turn music off once trying to navigate through a new city etc).
So the press are all over this at the moment.... i.e. getting caught using your phone as a sat nav on the screen. The problem is they all seem to be focusing on the issue of using your PHONE as the sat nav however the way I see it is that is not the issue here.... the problem is having something on the screen that blocks your line of sight.
When it comes to sticking things on your windscreen most of the windscreen is, in fact, out of bounds, according to the UK Road Traffic Act 1988. The law divides the windscreen into two zones:
Zone A is a 290mm area centred on the steering wheel – this is extended to 350mm in goods vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW
Zone B is the area of the windscreen that is covered by your windscreen wipers when they are active, and is commonly referred to as the “swept area”
No part of the device – camera, cradle, suction cup, phone,satnav or cables – should intrude more than 40mm into Zone B. And only 10mm intrusion into Zone A is permitted.
I suppose the problem is if they start enforcing this rule then 99% of drivers would fall foul whether it's a dashcam, phone, or satnav. I do get peeved though when I see people driving along with this huge phone plastered right in the middle of the screen :-(
Ive always just plugged mine into the cigarette lighter. I don't need it in front of my face because the audio is more than sufficient. Anything else becomes a distraction (why I turn music off once trying to navigate through a new city etc).
Some of the "tablets" fixed to the top of dashboards on newer cars, almost as an afterthought (Mercedes, you listening?) would probably fall foul of the "blocking line of sight" argument.
I think what's there when the car leaves the factory or manufacturer fitment is okay e.g. rear view mirror.Originally Posted by vagabond
Women seem to be the worst for placing (phone or satnav) right in the line of site, just below the RV mirror.
It is as if they do not wish to glance away/down from the field of vision............
Of course - it could be that the phone isnt being used as a satnav, but displaying texts........
My satnav sits right in tlhe lower-right corner of the windscreen.
I use the built-in 'nav in one car and use Google Maps on my mobile when driving my other. The 'phone is mounted in the bottom RH corner of the screen where, by line of sight, I'd be looking at the peak of the wing if my 'phone wasn't blocking the view i.e. my 'phone doesn't hinder my view of the road what-so-ever. I regularly see other drivers with their mobiles/'navs planted right in the middle under the rear view mirror, and at night with the screen seemingly still on full brightness... I can't get my head around why some people find it acceptable to place objects in their direct line of sight.
I agree that the issue appears to be more related to the positioning of these devices rather than their use while driving. Hopefully the fact that this subject has been raised will help define, in the public eye, what is acceptable and what isn't - as it is it appears to have initially created more confusion.
Oh, I know - but in principle, if it's deemed to be blocking your line of sight, does it matter whether it was placed there by the manufacturer or the user?
The RVM isn't usually in your direct line of sight out of the windscreen unless your doing a bit of blue sky thinking whilst driving.......
Most in-car tablets are around about the same level as the main instrument binnacle, or maybe a couple of inches or so above. Some may look like they're tacked on however I'd guess that there are rules and regulations governing the positioning of such built-in devices so that, by line of sight, they don't interfere with forward vision.Oh, I know - but in principle, if it's deemed to be blocking your line of sight, does it matter whether it was placed there by the manufacturer or the user?
The RVM isn't usually in your direct line of sight out of the windscreen unless your doing a bit of blue sky thinking whilst driving.......
Outward vision in modern cars is already compromised... massive thick a and b pillars, head restraints that block rear vision. High boot lines and small rear window areas, all add up to a cocoon full of blind spots... To counteract this, manufacturers fit tons of electronics, blind spot mirrors, proximity sensors, lane departure etc etc.
Before getting my first car with built-in nav, I always used to stick the portable as close as possible to the lower right-hand corner of the windscreen, which always seemed the most sensible and safe place for it, even though it meant having to route the power cable quite intricately to get the plug to the power outlet in the centre console.
By contrast, I was overtaken on the M4 the other night by a dork in a Micra with a sat-nav stuck slap bang in the middle of zone A, more or less at eye level. The mind boggles...
Even an air freshener dangling from the RVM is a no-no in my book. Under the right (wrong?) conditions, these can mask a hazard, such as a pedestrian stepping into the road, until it's too late.
My tomtom is pushed right into the lower left hand part of the screen (left hand as viewed from the drivers seat), touching the dash. I haven't checked but I'm 99% sure this complies with the rules i.e. no more than 40mm into the swept area.
We had a bit of an issue with our local licensing authority when we switched systems from Autocab to Icabby.
Basically the Autocab unit would be placed on top of the dashboard mounted by the central air vents, but the new Icabby PDA is essentially a large phone so has to be held in place by a windscreen mount.
Now these new PDA’s have a built in meter that we are supposed to use and the councils requirement is that it is mounted in the centre of the car so that it is visible to all passengers.
That meant you had the RVM, then the suction cup and then the large phone (think IPhone+ size) all in a straight line in the middle of the windscreen. It’s like having a third A pillar in the middle of the screen.
Needless to say, I mount mine low on the right hand side of the windscreen and use my own mirror meter.
Don't worry about it.
They'll move onto something else tomorrow.
tbh I'd rather the rozzers got the people driving along with there vision blocked by a 7" phone in the middle of the screen than some of the more trivial motor infractions which they're told to target where it's more a case of what ever some idiot politician has deemed as a vote winning exercise this year.
Air vent holder works fine for me and doesn't obstruct anything.
it always surprises me when I see dangling air fresheners, crosses, even toys that effectively block half of the windscreen. people just don't understand basics of safety on the road - you have to have clear visibility in all directions.
They have, at least on my SLC. Also the C,E and S class, in fact I think only the A class protrudes into the windscreen area.
Last edited by BrianT; 9th January 2018 at 16:34.
I very rarely us a mobile phone and I don’t use sat nav..........problem solved.
The built-in sat nav in my 2010 Jag isn’t very good and for me it’s too far away from my line of sight.
Paper maps, aided by prior homework on Google maps, is good enough for me in most cases.
Paul
This is one area where recent improvements in car interiors have improved things - virtual displays with maps right where you need them.
Agreed, but the design of modern cars, with sloping and thick A posts, doesn’t help. I’m a great believer in being able to see through the windscreen and (more importantly) keeping my eyes on the road. Looking where you’re going at all times pays dividends, try telling that to the mobile phone bozos who still insist on using then whilst on the move.
Paul
What I see often are people who can barely see over the steering wheel, they either can't or won't adjust their seat height. In their position the must have an excellent view of the sky and little else.
In my works vehicle the nav goes in the very bottom right hand corner of the screeen, an area which isn’t even covered by the wipers.
Doing a fair motorway mileage each year you do see some unbelievable sights.
I do know of one person who believes it’s illegal to stick the nav in the windscreen so places it on her knees as this is apparently safer.
I've seen some SatNavs placed it prominent places, clearly not appropriate and blocking the view of the road.
Could, and should, be an easy pull for the boys in blue, and a penalty for it. Of course, this assumes there are any police left, which there aren't.
Anyone taking the new driving test, since December, will have a Sat Nav on the dash or stuck on the screen. Its a government test so it must be OK..........................
I use waze or google maps every day for both journeys to work. I wouldnt want to be without it now with how many hours it saves me every week.
like many others its on a windscreen mount on the bottom right and doesn't restrict my view at all. will need to have a measure though because i wasn't aware of the zones on a windscreen
So what do you do if it’s a long journey to an unfamiliar place and you are on your own? Do you pull over every few miles to look at the paper map?
Apps like Waze are a godsend.
No matter how much homework and pre-trip prep you do, you can't prepare for every traffic jam and detour on route. This is when a "live":SatNav/Waze apps come into their own.
As long as you mount it properly and so not to obstruct your view, I don't think there is an issue.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using TZ-UK mobile app
My phone is held in an air vent holder above my CD player and sits almost level with the top of the dashboard leaving a clear view. I can’t eject the CD out of the CD player due to the phone but doesn’t pose a great issue as I don’t have many CDs to choose from.
My wife and I discussed this during our holiday when we had a rental car with our own TomTom. We noticed that the windshield rake makes impossible for people with short(ish) arms to put the satnav low enough, just above the dash pad!
Menno
Stick it on the top of front of dash, not the windscreen if you can.
Will be looking over it so far less intrusive.
Same as I did 30 years ago, same trick my dad taught me when I was 8.
Learn the route beforehand, then write the road numbers and towns on a piece of paper. Road numbers are a godsend, provided you know which direction you’re heading in.
Trust me, it worked when my dad was driving and it still works today. Sat nav’s OK as a back-up when finding an address in a built up area, but that’s all it is to me.
Maybe I’m better at reading maps and memorising them than most people. Sat nav should be an additional to a map, never a complete substitute. Anyone who drives to strange areas without a map needs their sanity checking in my opinion.
Paul
Last edited by walkerwek1958; 9th January 2018 at 22:42.
Do you pull over every time you need to look at the list of road names?
I use my satnav 100% of the time, but I do have a roadmap at hand (or studied before the trip) because the satnav gives me a too detailed insight about the location: Like going down the Route du Soleil: I know that it's first Dijon and then Lyon, but it's so much nicer to visualise the whole trip. Last week in Orlando, I didn't have a map with me (only the TomTom) and again, I missed the 'total view'.
Menno
I can read maps just fine - but have problems remembering the road numbers or chronology of turns. I have found that Satnavs make things very easy for me, but accept that everyone is different.
I don't feel that my sanity requires checking, though.
(I can hold my own, in a fight with a badger however - which might be more than most people)
Memorising a route is all well and good until you make a mistake, then you’re stuffed.
I remember doing this once many years ago, before satnavs were common driving to south of France. My pre-planned list of roads and turn-offs became useless when we became lost. ‘Oh, there’s the Stade de France’ I said at one point but passed it again 90 minutes later. Luckily the wife didn’t notice and I kept quiet - if I’d asked her to look at the map we’d still be going round Paris now.
Why stick it to the windscreen?
Agreed. By all means use the sat nav but always carry a map to fall back on and see the big picture!
Studying the map and having a rough idea of the local geography is a big help, even though my memory's not as good as it once was.
Paul
Don't forget your dash cam:
If you are involved in a road traffic collision (RTC) and your camera is illegally positioned, you could face a charge of careless driving, or even dangerous driving. A conviction could result in anything from penalty points to up to two years imprisonment.
Additionally, if your dash cam is illegally placed, your vehicle will automatically fail its MOT.
In wouldn’t worry, I drive a 54 ft artic with a 16 ft 2 high trailer In white and even without sat navs in the windscreen most car drivers don’t see me. Most are looking at there phone in there lap thinking no one can see them.
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
This is interesting because my dash cam is beside the RVM on the passenger side. I can’t even see the dash cam from my seat. How any court of law could argue that it impedes my vision is beyond me.
There's way too much made of this by the press, in real life situations it really isn't a problem most of the time.
Firstly most MOT testers know that if you were to fail a vehicle because of an obstruction through the screen the minute the person gets down the road they'll stop and stick it back on again.
Secondly, if it's smack bang in the middle of the screen within this magical "A Zone " and it seriously affects the drivers view then it's a reason for rejection.
It can still be in swept area of the screen but it has to seriously disrupt the view of the road.
The word "seriously" is open to a misinterpretation and within the realms of the MOT is a very grey area.
Sadly there are quite a few grey areas where the MOT is concerned.
Mot testers have at their disposal an MOT advise, in the vast number of MOT I look after if there is an obstruction around the screen but it's not smack bang in the centre they almost always pass and advise.
If it is lower down in the screen and the tester feels that its ok but a shorter person may have an issue it's not for the tester to make that decision.
The list of questionable mot items is quite long which sadly cause confusion and this is mainly why there is so much disparity when you take a car for an MOT.
Its all about the view of the road, if it obstructs your view of the sky or the bonnet then there's not a problem.
Well it's what we all did 20 years ago ;-)
Driving home last night behind a 02 reg fiesta. Right in the middle of the windscreen was a huge phone. Worse I could see (through the rear screen) that the guy was involved in some form of text conversation i.e. not even using it as a sat nav. He was all over the road... I was praying for him to swerve off the road into a ditch
It's not a case of whether it impedes your field of view. It's about whether it's against the law/rules and it is..... I have the same argument about speeding i.e. on a perfectly clear road with perfect conditions why should I get pulled over for doing 5mph over the limit BUT you are and there's no defence.
What does this even mean (esp. Zone A) - how does it apply to something in front of the windscreen (e.g. satnav mounted on dash). Is this projected horizontally onto the screen and measured from there?
In practice any obstruction of view by something like this is affected by the height of the driver who can potentially see over it.
Okay... flip it for RHD....by the way this pertains to the UK.... just in case people start shouting saying 'but this isn't in the UK 'cause it's left hand drive'.
The swept area of the screen isn't effected by the height of the driver. The rules don't say field of view, what they say is swept area.
You said 'sticking things on your windscreen'. Not clear how these rules relate to stuff mounted close to the driver. The height of the driver will affect the swept area he 'sees'.
I agree with FFF: -
Last edited by Kingstepper; 12th January 2018 at 10:44.
I'm assuming that something stuck to the screen will always impinge on the swept area if stuck to the screen in the two zones. As far as items fixed to the dash then I guess it's how it appears from the drivers point of view.
At the end of the day all I'm doing is quoting the law/rules.... you can take them or leave them, from posts here I guess 99% will simply ignore them ;-)
Posting Permissions
