Apples to oranges.
So I was out for some food and drinks with mates last night and one of the guys noticed the Speedy Tuesday I was wearing.
It got a positive response from all of them and they aren’t the type who wouldn’t tell you if they didn’t like it.
My normal everyday wearer now is a non date sub but it got me thinking as to whether the ST was the better looking and all round better everyday watch.
If Omega released the ST design in a non LE and with a bracelet option would it be a challenge for the Sub in our affections(realise not everyone likes Subs)?
Included a wee snap for comparison
Apples to oranges.
Chalk and cheese.
Could it be fair to say they commented because they're used to seeing your everyday Sub wearer ?
‘It got a positive response from all of them and they aren’t the type who wouldn’t tell you if they didn’t like it.’
I’m still trying to decipher the triple negative!
I’m just kidding of course ;)
A “ non watch” person would appreciate the aesthetics of the Speedy.
A “watch lover” might appreciate the speedy, but will know the Sub is the original and best
Maybe so.
Obviously the ST got some rough press on here for reasons we are all aware but I think that if it was a general release watch it would sell in buckets.
I'm not trying to make any comparisons in functionality but more just as a more striking alternative to a Sub for the non-diving/race car driving punter like myself.
The Speedy does look great there though !!!
I prefer the dial of the Speedy, but there is no way it would compete as an every day wear - I’d want the comfort of at least 100m wr to wear every day.
But I’d choose the Speedy Tuesday above the current ceramic non-date Sub, as I have a lot of watches that would do the everyday duties.
It's just a matter of time...
As nice as the ST is, it has nothing on the Sub as an all-rounder.
Nope and not a dicky bird either. I’ve just splurged on something else so it might be that I tell them to stick it when they eventually call.
Last edited by -Ally-; 19th November 2017 at 00:33.
I wonder what the watch world would be like without the Submariner. Anybody with a watch seems to want to compare to the Sub which is a testament to its design over the years.
For me, the Submariner and the Submariner Date in ceramic guise have never been as nice as the 4 and 5 digit models, but the Speedmaster Professional in any variant is as good now as it was two or more decades ago. It really surprises me when people say it's not a daily wearer. Last year, I came across an older man spectating alongside me at a car racing event. I spotted his Ed White a mile off and he bought it new, and had worn it every single day for 40-50 years or whatever. Never skipped a beat.
The current model is 50m WR and I can attest to the watch being very water resistant as I've had many and swam with them no problem. Legibility on the Speedmaster with its hesalite is second to none, and if you're going to have a watch without a date, it's good to at least have a chronograph instead.
So although the build quality of the Sub may be better, and the clasp more adjustable, I personally see the Speedmaster as probably the best value for money "luxury watch" other than the Seamaster Professional; another incredibly long-standing model which is instantly recognisable.
Last edited by W44NNE; 19th November 2017 at 00:36.
Following on from Wayne's comments, I have had an Ed White, a Speedy Tuesday, two x 14060m (both a 2 liner and and a 4 liner) and currently own a 5512, which probably makes me sad git of the year.
They are very different watches, but I would give the nod to the Submariner.
You are lucky Wayne. There are quite a few occurrences of them leaking. Personally, I would never take an expensive watch of less than 100m (well maybe 60m ;) swimming). Maybe they are fine, but I’d like someone from Omega CH telling me so before I took one in the water for a swim.
Agreed on the value for money, alongside the SMP, but then they haven’t had to spend anything on the Speedy for quite some time now, apart from a new box and updated bracelet.
Last edited by Omegamanic; 19th November 2017 at 00:57.
It's just a matter of time...
They have in some ways by developing new variants of the "Speedmaster" but the Moonwatch is the big seller and really doesn't need to change IMO. The new extending clasp as standard would probably make it an ultimate watch for most people really, so maybe that will be along soon.
I've taken plenty of watches swimming that have been rated 50m or so. I see what you did with the 60m lol but I'm not being careless, I'm using the watch for my necessary purposes. I want to swim and don't really want it out of my sight, so it comes with me.
Having owned a few Speedmasters and three Daytonas I really should get my head around what the hell those pushers do. I really haven't got a clue, they look nice, but at my age the need to record speed seems somewhat of a joke. Then again I like Moonphase watches and I can tell how the moon is doing just by looking out of the window.
This masterclass should convince anyone reading to go and buy a Submariner, at least I can the time
Fair enough. I have no problem taking most watches swimming, and have worn my WG Daytona swimming, diving, and in the gym for most Caribbean holidays.
I’ll try the Moon Watch when it arrives next week - if it leaks I’ll be sending it back. But may I’ll call the boutique first and have then confirm that it’s good enough for the pool.
It's just a matter of time...
Better looking? Probably. The square case Subs will NEVER look right to me - not even a little bit. The glidelock makes the Sub the much better daily watch though.
1 in 1 million people would try it out, find it useless and then never use it again. However those 1 in a million people, like most sensible people, would utilise the chronograph not for speed, but regular things like cooking, parking etc. The thought of using the tachymeter has never even crossed my mind.
Therefore to suggest the Submariner is more an everyday watch because it doesn't have a tachy scale seems a bit silly to me. Both watches tell the time, have a similar power reserve and overall capability. Therefore it's simply down to personal preference. We're hardly comparing a Submariner to a fragile gold Hublot Spaceframe Sapphire Carbon Plastic watch or what have you.
I don't want to be the enticement for you to risk several thousand pounds of watch Scott, but all I'm saying is that I've never had an issue. I can't remember if I wore my vintage Heuer on the IoM? If I did, that watch doesn't have a WR rating, but I got it serviced by Duncan on here. He pressure tested it without me asking or knowing until it came back to me. It passed on his 100M machine!
Last edited by W44NNE; 19th November 2017 at 01:19.
Yes you were wearing the vintage heuer ;)
The Speedy is thankfully only a £2.5k watch, so I’m sure it’ll be ok. I want to compare one against a Spercy Tuesday, but the light subdials and the brushed case make the Tuesday for me - shame it didn’t come with a bracelet though!
I probably need to stop buying so many Omegas and move back to a few newer Rolex models, but not having a local AD is killing my Rolex collecting at present.
It's just a matter of time...
There's no objective test we would all agree on, so personal taste and values rule. I don't see the ST as equal even to a standard Speedy Pro, because legibility is inferior. It's more expensive and not quite as good. The only reason to buy it is if you love the look.
The Submariner is a much tougher watch, and anyone who has used both will know it. Mind you, I think the standard Speedy Pro on a leather strap looks better. And costs about half as much.
Last edited by paskinner; 19th November 2017 at 01:23.
I'm going to come across as a Speedy fan boy here, but I'm being unbiased I promise lol. I know the Sub feels weightier, and therefore perceptively, the Speedy may feel inferior, however I inadvertently proved how extremely tough the Speedmaster is at the airport one day.
I was going through security and stupidly listened to the staff member insisting I remove my watch for the metal detectors. I took off my jacket and placed it in the tray, and then placed my Speedmaster ever so gently on the coat so it wouldn't be damaged. Of course after going through the palaver of security, I managed to forget about placing the watch on my jacket and went straight into muppet mode. Lifted my jacket out on the other side and my Omega flew the best part of 8 feet into the air before landing hard on the floor. It was a silicone type floor so maybe a very small cushioning affect but that watch didn't miss a beat in the next few months (until I sold it) and to add, there wasn't a mark anywhere on it. I couldn't believe the bullet I'd dodged.
The manual wind movement is what saved it IMO.
Last edited by W44NNE; 19th November 2017 at 01:30.
If you find the ST difficult to tell the time on you should buy a different watch, which I know you have, but 99% of owners would have no problem whatsoever. It looks nicer than the standard version, and that’s all that matters.
Id expect the Sub to be a better day to day all rounder, but it’s sapphire - so more prone to chipping or shattering when the Speedy might get away with a dud with polywatch (other abrasives including toothpaste are available).
It's just a matter of time...
Come on Wayne, you know your onions - the ST is marmite, do you love it or not.
Not sure what you mean. I replied with the image as the OP's question was regarding the ceramic submariner vs. the Speedmaster Speedy Tuesday; not the 5512/3 which I personally don't see as a good daily wearer, although it could be at a push I suppose. By the way I went swimming with my very vintage 5513 years ago with no ill effects :-)
Not so, it's simply a fact that it is less legible...any direct comparison of the two watches will show that. Which is why the original design has black sub dials...to endure the best contrast with the hands. It is one of the key features of the design, lost in the Speedy Tuesday.
As for looks, that's just a personal choice. As the dust settles you'l find plenty of users will prefer the original. Omega has flogged this horse near to death, squeezing every possible sale from a series of 'special' versions. None improves on the original.
What would be interesting is a return to the original movement; but that would cost real development money.
Fair points on Wayne's part, however I too cant make my head around submerging any of my watches unless they have a screw down crown.. cant talk myself into it.. one more thing about the speedy - the crown is quite small IMO and winding it isnt effortless as the crown stays so close to the case, so I rub my fingers to the case while winding..
This is a pretty pointless comparison on any but purely aesthetic grounds since the two designs are so vastly different in conception. If you want to dive, the ST (or std Speedmaster) isn’t an ideal choice and if you want to accurately measure time elapsed the Sub is pretty useless. Screw down crowns are a bad idea on a manual wind watch but necessary IMO on a diver. As noted above, apples and oranges really.
Last edited by Padders; 19th November 2017 at 08:41.
IMHO it’s all about budget.
If you’ve got around £5-6k to spend, the ceramic sub is far better. The quality of the clasp, the ceramic bezel and the automatic movement are the highlights for me.
Having said that, if you’ve got 2-3k, a speedy moon watch is the best watch in and around that budget by a country mile!
I’m sure most collections on here have got one or both anyway!!
A speedy Tuesday at retail is not a patch on a sub, but at the inflated prices they’re even worse.
As far as the speedy Tuesday is concerned, I like my panda dial, sapphire sandwich on far more.
Of course taste is subjective, but that’s my opinion!
Fwiw
Last edited by RJM25R; 19th November 2017 at 09:53.
Your whole comment is very subjective, not just the last part Rick :-)
All this perceived quality stuff makes little sense to me. For example, I drive a Mercedes C-Class. Last week, I visited the McLaren Technology Centre and went down in a Range Rover Velar. Judging by comment about values etc, then I should perceive the quality of my C-Class would be far inferior to the Range Rover, however that simply wasn't the case. The materials used in the RR were pretty nasty in some areas, the gearbox was absolutely dreadful, it was louder, and at £90k or so, I could never recommend it.
This thread is not all about values as much as it's about personal taste. The Speedmaster IMO is a wonderful watch. It has so much going for it. If it had a 72hr automatic movement like the Daytona it wouldn't be a Speedmaster. It's one of the longest running product lines in the history of any sector and has barely changed in all of that time.
Maybe soon when the Submariner receives the upgraded 3235 movement, things will change with my views on the current Sub, however no doubt the watch will go up in price to a degree and become so sought after, there'll be a 5 year wait as with anything else straight away.
It's quite true that quality and price don't always go together. And I don't think anyone is saying that the Speedy is not a well-made watch, with a great history. It is, no doubt about that. But I think Rolex has this 'quality feel' thing nailed down . When you pick-up any Rolex, it just feels substantial, well-engineers and very rugged. Omega don't quite match that, for me anyway.
I am a big fan of the basic Speedy Pro. It is the watch I recommend to people, along with the basic Oyster Perpetual.
I don't really know what to say. You have a problem with the legibility of what other people write too sometimes. Did I state that it was more legible than the standard model? No. Only that it wouldn't be an issue (in isolation) for 99% of owners!
Hands up how many owners of the Subs dive. Of those how many have gone deeper than 50m. Hands up if it's your only watch. Hands up who actually uses the Speedies bezel.
We are comparing watches. Simple as that. I know owners of both for which they are their only watch. I doubt they would have chosen the other for whatever reason.
Both could be used for 99% of daily usage. But... Personally, I prefer to have more than 100m wr. That doesn't mean I don't own any watches that don't meet that requirement, but I put a like more thought to that day's activities just in case. Or just wear an SD and forget about it.
Anyway.
The Panda is lovely. But the new price would be higher if it was an available model. It's one of the best lookers, dial at least, and the upgraded movement of the sandwich is a nice addition.
As an iconic watch the Speedy is a bargain compared to the Non-date ceramic sub. That's why I have just stupidly bought another.
Each to their own.
It's nice to have both I guess, but I've managed to stay away from the non-date SubC for now, preferring the previous incarnation by a long way.