Reply With QuoteAbsolutely.Originally Posted by dougair
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Good idea, send a mate in in a few weeks and say I own the watch now, can I have my warranty card please.
Cheers..
Jase
Absolutely.
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Can we not all just agree to stop buying Rolex :-)
I believe Seiko makes good watches, and don't retain the warranty cards.
Idiotic comment. They would be in a world of brown stuff if they tried holding someone prisoner.
Agreed. Not that I've ever bought one (although have a Tudor BB WITH BOX AND PAPERS!!! Surely that doesn't count). But I won't be buying a Rolex new after this sh!tfight.Can we not all just agree to stop buying Rolex :-)
I believe Seiko makes good watches, and don't retain the warranty cards.
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i think thats a bit naive jason. i don't think they give a f()ck as long as the dollars keep rolling in, which they are, thank you very much.
its not about the customer in this case. dance monkey boy, dance.
Good luck everybody. Have a good one.
I can't believe what this thread has become but some comments have given me a good chuckle.
Me too. Fantastic. Although sometimes chuckling at myself and asking myself "why is this winding you up so much... it's not even your problem". Anyway... good to meet you Wayne. Ed
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Haha thanks Ed
Wow... just wow... this is how you make things sought after. Never heard of this practice before. Nuts.
That's all well and good, but it's all academic really. Like all shops the ADs can choose who they sell to, and if they want people to abide by their policies then they'll simply sell to those that will.
When all's said and done, it really only affects those that buy for a short term flip. There are more important things in life to worry about.
Traders can set terms and policies in their contracts but they don't have carte blanche, they have to conform to the Consumer Protection Act 2015.
I believe there is a strong argument that this traders imposition of these conditions puts him in breach of the Act.
Mitcvh
I think its part of the reason why they didn't give any written agreement about it.
Sure but you as a retailer would have to make that crystal beforehand... certainly before a deposit has been taken. There was a good post previously about trading standards. I used to work as a returns manager in a nationwide retail establishment and know all about this stuff inside out. You simply cannot make rules up on the spot.
But yes you are correct... there are more important things to worry about... including our beloved timepieces. (Bows out... but happy to help with this stuff in the future.. can quote trading standards, distance selling regulations etc chapter and verse).
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I'm not sure how you can justify that it's an idiotic comment. We've got no idea how either party would allow this situation to escalate. The shop may indeed initially decide to not buzz him out if he swipes the card off the desk while he looks at it.
Security may become involved. It's fair to say they couldn't suspend buzzing in and out while he remains a 'prisoner' but I doubt the simple answer to this whole situation is to ask to photograph the card for your own records and then pocket it and walk out.
Yes, there are many worse and more important things in the world, and I never suggested this was anything more than a first world issue. However they changed the terms on me, and the "policies" imposed are all verbal. I asked him where they were written and he couldn't answer. There was no mention of it at the beginning of the process in March, and nothing shown to me physically at the end of the process yesterday.
I don't see why we should be expected to follow these paths if they aren't pre-agreed in the first place, and that's why this thread has gone on for as long as it has, because plenty of others clearly don't either.
I really can't think of many analogies that would compare so it's hard to put it all into context, but I'm sure if you bought a watch off SC and the owner said I won't send you the warranty card for 6 months, you'd be a little peeved. You'd walk, or if it was a rare watch you really wanted, you'd end up in my position yesterday. Of course it wouldn't happen but it's the only comparison I can come up with, because not many things are purchased with a warranty card that is part of the package, adds to the value and is part of the buying process for a collector.
People who've stated used is the way to go are right. I used to think the best treatment would be from an AD, but clearly that's not always the case. I've had many better experiences buying from SC, and three people have got in touch stating how they weren't impressed with their buying experience (at other ADs to this one) either thanks to all these "rules".
If the dealers have carte blanche to make up whatever rules they want, and, as the dealer tried to state to me yesterday, blame it on "Rolex Policies", they'll just keep getting away with all this pretentious rubbish. It's a shop. I should have walked in excited, and walked out happy. End of.
And if the jewellers go bust then what. Report them to Rolex
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I'm not the type of person to get out of hand. There's no way I'd have risked my own safety or gone that far over a watch. However the very fact that people have suggested ways to have claimed the card yesterday shows how idiotic the whole scenario is. They should have just give me the card and been done with it. It's really pathetic to hold it back, I don't care what excuses they give me, or where they tell me the "rules" have come from.
I think you are confusing your dealer with a massage parlour............ :)
Al
Precisely. (Sorry I know I was bowing out but this is essentially what the whole thread amounts to and wasn't the case. As Wayne says.... end of)
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IF.... If the owners circumstances changed and he HAD to sell the watch to release funds then the shop would be the only place he could sell it back to. They would have to buy it as they're holding the warranty card.
Would they give him market value or offer a lower price as it's second hand? what price would they then sell it for?
Who then is reselling and/or profiteering?
Why is it not that simple?
You take card and pocket it
They refuse to let you leave = false imprisonment
They call the Police = yes officer this gentlemen tried to leave the shop with an item he has paid for in full and rightfully owns...
Can you honestly see any scenario where they could stop you?
Haha! Not an uncommon mistake around here.
This thread is a hoot.
First of all Wayne seems ok with how overall things turned out and that is the most important thing.
The greatest amusement is provided by the people getting bent out of shape with outrage when they were not the ones buying the said watch anyway and the biggest laughing stock are the people claiming they will not buy Rolex because of this.
Laughing stock eh? Laugh away, it won't change my opinion.
I'd pop in at a busy time - mid morning Saturday ? and ask politely for your property , getting louder and louder until it's in your hands . They either hand it over or ask you to leave in front of customers :)
Edited
Last edited by tom waring; 7th July 2017 at 14:32.
Didn't say I wouldn't buy a Rolex. Said I wouldn't buy a Rolex from an AD and be treated like a c@nt.
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I could see they may initially try to stop you....a condition of this sale was they keep YOUR card for 6 months, you then take it against their wishes.
If they simply let you leave with it unchallenged this time they may get even more idiotic for future buyers and either say no, you can't look at in case you take it, keep a firm grip on it as you try to gawp at it or even stick it in the cabinet for you to view!
Didn't Rajen already buy all the Rolex anyway? I think that's why there's none left.
It's all about choice really and I can see it from both sides to some degree.
I too got the call from DMR this week regarding my SD43. Now I recall having a conversation about the warranty card being withheld for six months when I went in and paid my deposit. It wasn't a problem to me as I believed that the larger SD43 would be my ideal watch. I wasn't wrong by the way. I love it.
Now I like Alex the lad that I usually deal with and I trust him. I am a simple lad in that what other people call the AD experience actually embarrasses me. I like to go into somewhere buy what I want and not have all the fawning and BS that goes with purchasing high end items. I have a pretty responsible job and usually wear a suit for work. However, that comes off the minute I am not working and I am a real scruff. The reason I mention this is that I go to a lot of places where it's all about image and the way that you are treated usually depends on the way you look. Some people like that. I don't. DMR have always treated me the same whether I am suited and booted or in overalls and a tee shirt covered in dog crap as I was when I went in on Wednesday. That is why I have bought six watches from them in the past 18 months. As well as some high end jewellery. I like them as a company and I like their staff.
Now as it happens Alex wasn't there on Wednesday when I picked up my watch. I was called by a lovely fella called Rob and a lad called Martin dealt with me. We had a bit of a laugh and a joke and that was me done and dusted. Martin took the stickers off the watch which hasn't happened before but I wasn't bothered as I expected this and it saves me a job. But...... I also left the store with the warranty card and didn't think anything about it at all. In fact I hadn't noticed that I had it. I was too busy wearing the watch and the box and card had been thrown in the loft to gather dust, along with all the others.
I have since been contacted and asked if I can take it back in to DMR as they should have retained it which I will do. It isn't a problem for me and to be honest all this talk of places going out of business, fires or incompetent staff losing the card really made me laugh. It's a warranty card. Rolex have my details. If I was going to get work done on the watch I would take it back to DMR anyway and let them send it off.
I am not saying that my perception of this situation is right and Wayne's is wrong. It just doesn't bother me at all. Life is too short. I also want to balance out the stick DMR seems to be getting for getting people the watch that they want and fairly quickly.
I have had shocking service from Haywoods place in Chester once a long while ago. I have used them since and wouldn't hesitate to do so again. In fact I recommended them to someone only yesterday for a used watch. Why throw your toys out of the pram over one experience. I am pretty sure that if I wanted one of the SD43s that Miltons has I wouldn't be paying RRP. That's not me having a go at Haywood but just pointing out that what some ADs are doing to try and reduce the gray market impacts on other businesses that offer stickered watches above RRP.
I do believe that Wayne and I probably have a lot in common. Manchester, photography, deep sea blue, SD43 and I have just bought a new Audi. I think we were separated at birth Wayne. Tell me you are a blue not a red?
Enjoy the watch fella and keep on keeping on...... life is too short.
Chris
OP - Enjoy your watch. It looks great.
My issue with all this is the inconsistency from one AD to another.
As I said earlier, I think it is a pity Rolex don't simply instruct dealers to all follow a certain set of instructions - so everyone gets consistent treatment. Having one dealer holding warranty cards, another not, others taking stickers off pre-delivery, others not etc. leaves the door open for customers to be annoyed.
While on the subject of buying Rolex, what I find annoying is the inability to put yourself down on a properly managed order/waiting list at most AD's. Instead, there's no consistent policy or transparency on how AD's allocate the stock they get. Mates first, then repeat customers, then if you're lucky you might get a call after they've sold pieces to everyone else they've put ahead of you.
That's if you are lucky enough to find an AD who will afford you the huge privilege of being allowed to put your name down in the first place....
Being almost laughed at by snotty AD's when posing the simple question 'can I please put myself onto the list/order an xyz' is getting very old. Earlier this year, right after Baselworld, I walked into one of the biggest Rolex stores in London, tried several new DJ41's and bought one there and then (fluted WG bezel, black dial - I was happy). Then, after having paid for it and just as I was leaving I asked if they wouldn't mind putting me down for an SS43. I promise you I was almost laughed at.
I was so annoyed. I was not in any hurry to get one (assumed I was going to be 'late' onto a list) but to have the salesman look down his nose at me (after having spent fair bit on the DJ purchase) and not even put me onto the waiting list was so irritating. So, I left the Rolex store with a new watch which should have been a good feeling but instead I was made to feel very belittled.
There must be room for improvement if Rolex simply issued some transparent policies that their AD's should all follow.
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Last edited by tom waring; 7th July 2017 at 14:35.
I wonder what the shops stance would be if someone else went into the shop wearing Wayne's watch and told them they had bought it off Wayne and wanted the warranty card.
He is wearing the watch so it would be easy to confirm it that it is actually the same watch.
If they refused, the new owner (friend) could just say "sorry, but I didn't take that contract out with you, I want my warranty card please"
How could they then not give it to him?
Easy, the shop has NO contract with the friend as he/she did not purchase it from the shop.
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Jesus. This thread is mental. I simply cannot believe the amount of sympathy for the dealer here. And Bluemoon7 actually taking what was rightfully his back to the dealer because they called him and asked for it is complete and utter madness.
Wayne is absolutely right to be f@cked off with this and it's tainted his experience of buying a special watch. I'm not going to draw any more analogies but the fact remains the same. He paid RRP for a full set and a part of that full set has been retained against his will. Yes, he could have just said no but according to his account he wasn't given fair notice or anything written when he made his deposit. But then he was given a very "on the spot" choice of f@ck or walk by the dealer and I can completely get why he took the watch and complied. It's absolutely outrageous behaviour by the AD. When I buy watches, I want the full set and I get that buying 2nd hand.
Besides who the hell do rolex and AD's think they are applyingg sanctions to customers who have just dropped half their annual salary on a watch. For god's sake.
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Sorry to pick up on this, and thankyou for the feedback, but was the bad experience before March 2008? The Chester shop was owned by a cousin before that and I had no involvement in its ownership or management until then. I am relieved, of course, by what you then go on to say - thankyou.
As for the SD43s, they are indeed above RRP but I have documented previously how I always disliked the market for premium-priced models. As dealers, though, there are many clients who already have one of our watches who want to be able to trade in for a desirable model at some point, so it really is customer demand which forces the position.
H
I don't even believe this. If it's true you're a mug IMO.
When you actually try and take a step back and look at all of this in context of one's life, the world, all that you hold dear and value, it's all complete and utter madness in my view. I love Horology and the engineering and design just like the rest of us, but this in my opinion is just insane, Rolex or not.
I have to agree with this one!
- - - Updated - - -
I wonder if once David Robinson Jewellers read this thread, they'll ever deal with a TZUK'er again? Perhaps they'll 'sus' us all out as part of their allocation diligence?
let's say all the Rolex dealers successfully managed to hold back warranty cards from now on. Wouldn't that just mean that it would be the norm to buy a grey market <6 month old Rolex without a warranty card?
So what would that actually achieve? It's not going to stop it happening just probably levels the playing field for grey dealers who aren't currently getting warranty card's while others are.
Does anyone think people who are willing to pay thousands of pounds over rrp just to get a watch asap will even be bothered they don't have the card? Aren't they the ones more likely to be keeping the watch? They surely aren't going to be flipping it for a profit any time soon.
When you think of the logic behind it, it smacks of nothing more than created 'drama' to me. And it sure as hell works, just look at us all discussing it. I'm sure there's people that read these threads that now want a new SD no doubt.
Manufactured and controlled, funnily enough that sentiment works for the watches themselves and the drama around them.
Fair play to their marketing machine I say.
Actually fair play to him.
He agreed to a condition which they forgot to enforce. He is prepared to stand upto his word.
If he is not planning to flip,he doesn't stand to lose anything.
It doesn't make him a mug. Not saying he has to or he should but if that is his choice, that makes him a stand up guy.
Not meek and certainly not a mug.
The AD is playing a game and he is happily playing it back, pandering to their requests.
Whatever anyone thinks of this, he is playing the game back and as a result will be top of virtually any list he wants to be top of. With many customers potentially being prickly over their rules, this will only go in his fa our. In that respect - fair play to him.
It is indeed madness. But my view of madness is that Wayne has been royally f@cked over by "the man" and I'm fighting his corner because he is absolutely correct to be annoyed. These things aren't cheap and as (sorry in my formative days as a watch enthusiast I used to watch his channel) Archie Luxury says "they hurt". There are many things I hold much dearer than watches... wife... 2 cats... but this upstanding chap has been treated badly and that should be exposed.
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Chinos
Barbour/Belstaff
Grenson/Loake
£8k watch on NATO
.
.
.
Yep TZ'er...you're barred 😂😂
I suspect we're easy to spot!
Yeah it's a lovely watch but this thread just tells me to go on SC or chrono24 rather than an AD
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Haha and all bought and paid for from SC
Some comments on this thread about how Rolex is behind a lot of this AD behaviour.
Apart from restricting supply (which can rightly be argued to be the root cause) I've yet to see any evidence that Rolex is dictating that ADs desticker watches and withhold cards to prevent flipping/profiteering.
I've read on this forum on at least a couple of separate occasions, including early in this thread, first-hand accounts of Rolex stating it doesn't mandate ADs doing either of these things. Factor in Haywood's observation that Goldsmiths gets away with its in-demand watches ending up on the secondary/grey market, and it seems that Rolex has stepped back and is just letting things play out in the UK.
As stated previously, all this malarkey is good for the brand. Why would Rolex want to stop it? Most punters don't care about stickers and probably even warranty cards, so no harm done if the only implication is a few watch collectors get bent out of shape.
As far as the ADs go, I don't get why they're bothered about what happens to their watches after they've been sold. Just like Rolex, they should be happy to see secondary prices through the roof, as it makes the products they're selling all the more desirable. Probably some ADs, or individual sales people, realise they're in a position of some power (as evidenced here) and are enjoying lording it over desperate buyers.
If it was Rolex pressuring ADs to prevent profiteering, why aren't these practices mandated across the dealer network? Surely Rolex wants its customer experience to be consistent whichever AD is used.
That is correct Rajen. Thank you for the common sense post. I was asked if that was ok at the point that I went in to place myself on the list. I am maybe a little old school in that if I agree to something I stick to it. It impacts on me in absolutely no way at all. If that, in some people's eyes makes me a mug I can live with that. As stated earlier, I happen to really like the service that I have had from DMR and that too is possibly a reason that I don't have a problem with this.
If anyone can give me a really valid reason why I should start being an ar#e and difficult at this stage of my life over a situation that does not impact on me in any way at all I am all ears.
In an ideal world we would all be able to buy the watches that we want when we want. I happen to believe that people that are ok with serial flippers or are ok with people that buy these watches to make an instant profit are probably more of a mug than my good self but again that is all down to perception.
I'm just off to wind and wear my new watch. It's a cracker. I am really enjoying wearing it. Isn't that what it's all about.
Chris
Never thought of it like that but that's an interesting theory. I tend not to play games like that, I'm probably not that bright :-) I have also never been on a watch waiting list previously and probably won't be again. I have been lucky in being able to get the watches that I wanted at any one time.
Chris
I certainly think that if he hadn't "played the game" that would be the end of his relationship with a branch of DMR that he's obviously quite happy with. As to whether he will receive any preferential treatment down the line for his co-operation, I'm rather less convinced...
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