Reply With QuoteTop effort Mr Bottas - should make for a good race!.
Being at Silverstone tomorrow means that I won't be watching the race live, I may not be able to catch up with it until Monday. I'll be gutted if I hear the result beforehand, this one could be a cracker.
Hats off to Bottas, as DC said on C4's coverage you only ever get one first pole, and VB himself seemed pretty chuffed - for a FinnPalmer needed that Q3 as well, kudos to him for that.
Last edited by CardShark; 15th April 2017 at 20:51. Reason: Poor spelling error...
Top effort Mr Bottas - should make for a good race!.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Originally Posted by Chris_in_the_UK
Just home from work and just watched qualifying. Totally agree with this ^^^^. Seems like a genuine and good guy.
A snippet of information which has leaked out via the Sky coverage today - Red Bull have "correlation" problems.
This happens when the results from the track, monitored via various sensors on the cars which provide information on downforce and airflow don't correlate with the results from the wind tunnel or CFD. So the team can come up with aero updates which don't work, or don't provide the expected results when it matters.
This has happened to Ferrari and McLaren in recent years, and has resulted in them moving large contingents of their aero staff to Cologne, and using the Toyota wind tunnel while their own is refurbished and recalibrated. The whole exercise is disruptive, and adds time to the production of prototype updates. For a team so heavily dependent on aerodynamics, this is bad news indeed, and may impinge on their competitiveness this season - if they have to move some of their aero staff to Germany while they sort out their tunnel, it's going to be for months rather than weeks.
Any news on what happened to Sainz?
According to James Key (Toro Rosso Tech Director) "his power unit packed up".
Which we knew already, as it was fairly obvious from the tv coverage.
I like Carlos Sainz, and hope to see him in a front-running car soon, although promotion to the Red Bull "first team" looks unlikely. He deserves a chance at the sharp end.
Sebastian Vettel reminds me more and more of Michael Schumacher. How many drivers would have had the presence of mind to loosen their belts, press the "neutral" button* and coast the car into the pit lane when everything failed towards the end of a lap in FP3? He's one of those drivers who has spare mental capacity over and above what's required for driving.
*Every car has to have a button, marked "N", on the top of the bodywork immediately in front of the cockpit, which puts the gearbox into neutral. This is for the marshals to use in order to be able to push a stranded car out of harm's way. A complete electrical failure could otherwise leave the car stuck in gear.
They were using that hi-vis paint during FP1 on Friday, that adds some weight to the comment.
There's been a very bad crash in the F4 race at Donington this afternoon.
Agreed, but a bloody good effort by Renault as well. Two cars in the top 10.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
We're at lap 14...what else can happen?
Edit: Penalty...what next...?
Fingers crossed for Billy Monger...no news on-line as yet. Edit 3: "In a statement, organisers said: "Monger has been carefully extracted from the car after suffering leg injuries, and has since been airlifted to the Queen’s Medical Centre in Nottingham for further examination." Here's hoping...
Last edited by PickleB; 16th April 2017 at 16:45.
Good race so far.
Cheers..
Jase
"Serious leg injuries" apparently. I watched it live on tv, and it was a horrible high speed impact. I do hope he's going to be ok.
Maybe not a GP, but...events could be hosted on English roads under new laws:
They will allow motorsport promoters to apply for permission from local authorities to close public roads in England to stage races.
The government said the move "could be a real boost" to tourism.
The final decision on whether a race is safe to proceed would be made by councils, police and other local bodies.
^^^ now that sounds like a step in the right direction.
Back on topic, and an excellent race. Mercedes have a car advantage on some tracks, Ferrari on others, and Vettel is easily a match for Hamilton (given the rather unnecessary 5-second penalty that Hamilton achieved by clumsily blocking Ricciardo on the way into the pit lane, it could be argued that Vettel is a much more intelligent racer), this year's Championship is shaping up rather well. The only problem for Ferrari is that Kimi doesn't seem to have discovered his mojo just yet, but I'm sure he knows what he's doing.
Sochi is up next, concluding a triumvirate of races in countries with, shall we say, no racing heritage and a relaxed attitude to human rights. After Sochi we're in to the "proper" European season.
Horrendous hope he recovers well.
Silly penalty by Hamilton but given it didn't end up affecting Riccardo at all couldn't the stewards have given him a grid penalty in the next rather than spoil the battle for the lead in this race?
Anyway it was still a very interesting race. I'm really looking forward to the season ahead.
Bodes well for a close competition, doesn't it? Cracking race, looking forward to more.
Crikey, I went to the first three and it feels like yesterday. I always enjoyed Sepang, great views from most locations due to the layout, and it was very affordable.
Just finished watching the race, as has been said it's looking like it could be a brilliant season.
Hamilton didn't deserve the penalty IMO. The pits are still considered to be part of the race track, if he'd slowed a little on the track proper and held a driver back as long as it wasn't deemed dangerous then a penalty wouldn't be issued - Abu Dhabi would be a good example of such an event.
The WEC at Silverstone was also a cracker, great racing in all classes and a real battle to the finish.
Unfortunately Section 27, Driving, of the Sporting Regulations includes other conditions:
27.4 At no time may a car be driven unnecessarily slowly, erratically or in a manner which could be deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers or any other person.
And again, the penalty is unfair because it was given to LH!
1) the very same would not pip a word if it had been Riccardo slowing down LH
2) of course it affected DR, it delayed him.
3) the rules are there, break them and you will be penalised.
But great race and good to see that we have 2 teams fighting for the win, each with a driver capable of challenging the other. And I hope RB can soon join the party, MV might have been mixing in again as his tactics were perfect.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Of course we would. We'd be calling for Ricciardo to be penalised, probably flogged, possibly even banished to the colonies...
No, actually you're right. Rules is rules and he broke them.
Also, I'm looking forward to some competition between teams. If Ferrari were much the better car Vettel would walk away with it. Similarly Mercedes and Hamilton - I see Bottas competing with him but not this season (or at least, not early in the season).
Last edited by MakeColdplayHistory; 17th April 2017 at 08:12.
It would appear that Toto may be coming round to this point of view as well - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39616983
That was a great race. Really enjoyed seeing the strategies play out. Shame that bottas' team let him down with the use of a faulty generator and thus over inflated his rear tyres. That totally messed up the balance and grip for his first stint and ruined his chances at a win.
LH penalty was legit and I believe he deserved it. We all knew what he was doing and it impacted ricciardo. Granted, the rule book is vague - "unnecessarily slowly."
I was bummed when Verstappen's rear brakes failed. Was hoping for some more wild passing.
IMO he totally did and what's more it was a stupid thing to do and very unsporting. I am with Backward in that Vettel is in a different class of race craft. The swift 'neutral' coast versus Hamilton's antics with the buttons and now this... All in all a silly show from Hamilton and he was very lucky with the swift 5 secs. time penalty which action by the stewards deserves a compliment.
Ditto for the very sensible attitude they showed towards letting the guys race but clamping down on kamikazi actions. Man was that Sainz wrong in calling out that Stroll had not looked. He simply made a error, braked to late and torpedoed Stroll. Part of racing and simple over the edge this time. Thumbs up for the new approach.
As to the race; all is relative. I thought it was not that action packed AT ALL although ever so much better than last year. I mean; yes five cars within 2 or 3 second is 'close' but NOTHING happened till the first tire change and than the 'overtake' was the undercut, so that was still boring whichever way one looks at it.
Seems that the cars have LESS trouble overtaking and they sure look way more spectacular, so yes better than last year but still ... lots of room for improvement.
Shame about Max as with the undercut he was right in the middle of it, but that is the nature of racing.
I've no issue in differing opinions, however for what it's worth -
LH could be deemed to have been driving "unnecessarily slowly" in Abu Dhabi last year, and with much greater consequences should his obvious intentions have paid off. The stewards chose not to penalise him, possibly because nothing actually came of it, however the intent was evident.
1) You appear to be accusing me of being biased towards LH, that's simply not true.
2) I didn't say DR wasn't slowed down, it was obvious to all that he was
3) Indeed - break the rules and suffer the consequences
I agree ref having Ferrari stepping up to the mark and hoping that RB keep on improving. MV and DR are my favourite driver pairing on the grid and I'm more excited about MV's potential than I ever remember being about LH when he first entered F1, though I obvious don't actually believe that as I'm biased towards Lewis...
I appreciate that you're exaggerating for dramatic effect though your suggestion that I may be thinking that DR should have been penalised is a bit silly.
Lewis has since apologised to the team and the team themselves haven't even hinted at challenging the decision so their stance is clear on this. Stewards are present at each race in order to judge over such incidents and to make decisions when the rules themselves are a touch grey, that's their role and I accept that.
LH penalty was legit and I believe he deserved it. We all knew what he was doing and it impacted ricciardo. Granted, the rule book is vague - "unnecessarily slowly."
I was bummed when Verstappen's rear brakes failed. Was hoping for some more wild passing.
Verstappen's exit was unfortunate, he's one of the best racers out there.
Last edited by CardShark; 17th April 2017 at 11:07.
He was competing with Hamilton NOW!!! and was definitely competitive in the race too but for over inflated tires. I doubt that Hamilton would have overcome the 5 sec. extra if Bottas would not have been compromised by his team.
I cannot see Bottas win the championship as Hamilton is a harder racing nut to crack for Vettel but I sure can see Bottas taking a lot of points from Hamilton. That is if Mercedes allow him to. Like not handicapping him with tires...
I've only just caught up with the F1. Despite pre season fears, this year is turning out to be fantastic! A great race, I only wish there wasn't a safety car. I'm in the camp that thinks the LH penalty was fair. Bottles now needs to come back super strong to avoid becoming a defacto number two. Massa deserves some plaudits Poor poor Alonso, I'm still not of the opinion Indy is a good idea, but what a terrible state that team is in - 3 wasted years is a crime.
Can't wait for the next one already and I've not felt like that about F1 for a while!
WEC was excellent, six hours and the race settled in the last 15 minutes! Did a little watch admiring whilst there too, now a fan of the sub 40mm Tag Carerra
Awesome race with the GTE classes not being decided until the last lap or two! Spent an hour sitting in the Village grandstand, the speed differential between the LMP1 Porsches and Toyotas compared to the others as they accelerated down Wellington was incredible. Good sized crowd, the weather was kinder than expected and got my own watch shot in...
Anyway, thread drift...
Well done CardSharkI didn't get over to Village, we mainly loitered around Abbey for the FV8s and then the Wing, inside of Vale and Stowe. Agree the GTE was superb
Sent from my iPhone using TZ-UK mobile app
And after they put the correctly inflated tyres on, i.e second and third stints? Significantly slower than LH, but don't let your obvious bias get in the way of a good discussion.
As for the penalty, yes, unecessary by Lewis but let's see some consistency with the stewards shall we? Vettel 50% out of his pit box went unpunished in China but will be "dealt with" in future.
In terms of the season so far I'd like to see a straight race between Ferrari and Mercedes since there hasnt really been an opportunity to see what has what pace yet. One things for sure, Mercedes' strategist needs to up his game as he's been found wanting this year IMHO. I think Mercedes may have a tenth or two additional pace over Ferrari but if their strategist keeps making these duff calls it'll be a Vettel world championship.
Hamilton deserved a penalty there's no doubt about that but as it wasn't dangerous and had ultimately no impact on anyone else's race I don't see why they had to give him a time penalty in this race and spoil the battle for the lead. Why not give him penalty points and a grid penalty for the next race?
Mercedes have a tough choice, to have a good chance of winning the drivers championship they need to go with Hamilton as the number one driver bit it would be very harsh on Bottas who is still settling into the team.
I suspect they will still let their drivers race which is admirable but arguably a bit soft and in the end costly in terms of silverware.
Best just to put him on ignore. He's activated full troll mode again.
I assume you meant his position on the grid. As far as I can find out on the net, this was considered by the stewards and was not considered to be worthy of a penalty, but no Stewards' Decision was forthcoming. Some clarification is needed (link).
At the moment the rule (36.9) reads that cars "will stop within their respective grid positions". The trouble is that grid position is not defined other than by it's use elsewhere in the regs to refer to the relative position of cars on the grid, eg for awarding penalties as a "number of grid positions". Nowhere can I see any mention of a car's lateral position across the track that would give an unambiguous definition for "within" (eg one wheel or two?). The grid markings are clearly there for that purpose and so a definition of starting position on the grid needs to be introduced into the regs.
A great thread once again wrecked by the usual suspect - who hates F1.
Apart from a poor start I thought LH had a great race. The penalty was a bit harsh and did deprive the punters of seeing a great show down in the final laps between him and Vettel.
Botas is quick, however I am not yet convinced he can keep the pace going for an entire race. Good show by Max.
But to be honest this is a 2 horse race between Vettel and Hamilton, and my money is on Hamilton. A win this year will put him on the same number of titles as Vet - it will make it rather spicy.
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Seems that McLaren have some work to do, Alonso's quote was:-
"300 metres behind me and they overtake me on the straight. I've never raced with less power in my life"
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
;-)
You´d think the UK man wears a Rolex* :-)
We´ll see how Saint Lewis exploits the qualifying advantage his ride has. Last year he was not too thrifty with it.
As to the role of Bottas, the Mercedes hand is clearly forced by Vettel/Ferrari. It is not rocket science that they cannot afford Bottas taking points from their #1 rider. I remain that Bottas (was) held back this race already.
* both are equally revered no matter what, by the good folk here.
I am still chuckling about his setting muddle in Russia last year and how it was defended.
For the selective readers; as I wrote several times in the past, I am a HUGE fan of the way Hamilton does his own thing off track. Chapeau Lewis!! Maybe I should let the gf set me an earring like she so much would like to. After all, there is no fool like an old fool
Did you see Mark Webber's white dial ceramic daytona?
If it were a horse race, the Merc would carry 20 kilos of lead and the money would be on Vettel.
But yes, it is a two horse race and thus Mercedes cannot have Bottas finish ahead of Hamilton.
Yes, he is officially timing F1 with it. All the way to the 5th of a second.Did you see Mark Webber's white dial ceramic daytona?
I do wonder who does take care of that btw. Who really does the official time keeping for the circus. Nah, being Dutch I know ,-
Last edited by Huertecilla; 17th April 2017 at 15:30.
Just watching the second practice again and Lewis Hamilton was practicing a 5 second penalty, hmm.
These things happen...especially if you play to the limits...
Following on from an earlier post, it would appear that SV had read the rules and knew of a lack of clarity about starting position in the right grid position before he tried it out. Suburb driver though he is, I don't think LH has the same capacity (or inclination?) to delve into the written context behind his day job. That's what (IMO) makes SV seem that bit more clinical.
It seems to apply to the users manual of the car too.
Call it clinical, call it clever.
I agree with Backward on the issue.
I did mean position on the grid, you're correct. No problem with Vettel finding a loophole per sé except that I understand the stewards are now saying that any future infractions will be punished. How exactly? If there is no rule concerning lateral position then surely drivers should be allowed to exploit that until such a rule exists, otherwise one driver got away with it (and it's arguable whether it gave any advantage since I expect the other formulas to lay rubber down where the cars would "normally" be?).
Anyhow, it's a good season so far and I think it will go all the way between Ferrari and Mercedes.
I think the Stewards / Powers that Be can issue interim guidance as to their attitude / intentions until a consensus is reached and an amendment ia introduced into the regulations. I'm just surprised that, in a class where the engines, body, tyres, electronics, communications etc etc are specified to the nth degree that this has been overlooked. Surely there must be similar circumstances in other classes...was SV the first to try it?
I would not be surprised if Mercedes adopt a number one driver situation, and I have no problem with this strategy, after all Ferrari have been doing this since time immemorial. As they are no longer completely dominant I don't think they can afford the luxury of letting their drivers race each other.
I also think Ferrari may well be up for penalties later in the season given the number of ICE/ other components already used thus far.
An interesting season ahead of us I believe.
The Powers that Be have spoken...just not saying anything very specific: link.
...Since China the FIA has reviewed the situation and in a group call with all its stewards this week it was decided that a repeat would probably result in a penalty, and the drivers have now been informed.
Much of the discussion in the drivers' briefing resulted from their desire to have firm guidelines on how far they can push the limits.
Whiting pointed out that at least half the grid was outside the boxes in China, and that having a definitive limit of 10 cms or similar would be impossible to enforce.
In effect he asked drivers to use their common sense and do their best to place their cars inside the boxes.
"Charlie gave us his opinion and he said that if what Sebastian did happens again, then you might not get away with it," Force India driver Sergio Perez told Autosport.
"I think Sebastian was on the limit from that side and if Charlie sees that again it might be a penalty.
"I hope it doesn't happen as we might get into an argument if another driver gets a penalty.
"So what will common sense be? It is a hard decision for the stewards."
There's quite a few 'mights' in there...
I bet! Lol
I have to admit I was yelling at Mark on my screen.. wishing I could have an opportunity to pick one up w/o huge markup... and he was probably given that for the filming.
I was being silly but it had nothing to do with any thoughts of mine about what you may or may not have been thinking. I was just being silly.
The way I saw it, Hamilton slowed down in the pits to give his crew more time to get Bottas out of the way. Not a deliberate attempt to slow Riciardo down.
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