Reply With QuoteAgree, only way to make the point is take your business elsewhere.
Seem like a dying out art form.
I am referring to basics from like holding out a chair for you date to imo normal courtesy in emails.
Is it a symptom of the general worsening shallowness, US 'culture' displayed on the tv setting a rude example or increased self centered so we simply do not care?
Well, I care and as 'you get what you reward' am thinking of cancelling an order because of lack of it.
Agree, only way to make the point is take your business elsewhere.
I expect good manners from people, and do not accept anything but.
Definitely. If my date doesn't hold the chair out, then that's me straight off and back into the taxi.
I was brought up to, for example, hold a door open for a lady and will educate my son in the same way. Manners make the man.
You need to be careful in the 21st century, in particular when you extend a courtesy to a lady. I was once sworn at recently for simply holding the door open for a young lady. However it's ingrained into me to do it so I will probably get sworn at again.
Blame the parents, the media and "role models".
But at the end of the day good manners is the product of good parenting. Good parents creates good/polite children.
However - there is always a however.
What defines good manners - what is good manners for one group of people, might be considered bad manners for another.
I find most Americans I have met have better manners than most, they listen to others and are in the main tolerant. There are of course exceptions, as with any other nationality:)
'You don’t hold a door open because she is a lady, you do it because you are a gentleman.' (And she was no lady, by virtue of her response).Originally Posted by aldfort
Courtesy is ingrained in me also, so I will continue to practice it regardless of others around me.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Good manners shouldn't just be directed towards the opposite sex. If I go through a door in say a shop for example I will always cast a look back to make sure I'm not dropping said door in someone else's face no matter who. So many people don't do such simple things. Funnily enough its normally females that don't.
Lack of basic manners is one of the things that annoys me most when mixing with the great unwashed. There is a young guy gets on my train every morning, he is quite large (fat) and always just pushes people out the way and never waits for others to get off. The urge to push him in front of a train is becoming unbearable.
Quite - and when I hold doors open people sometimes look pleasantly surprised and I often get thanked never abuse.
and that applies to it ALL, to ALL good manners.
Yes, 'good manners' are a relative perception with a social environment. It is part of 'culture'. Well cultured or not.
As to Americans I have at one time been tempted to add 'proud to be old world' as signature in response to the imo moronic proud to be American but thought it better to simply observe and take it as a pointer to take my business elsewhere.
As to feminists taking offense I again just observe that they TAKE offense on the grounds of imo sad/mistrusting/misguided perceptions of simple being nice. Not because she is a woman but because you are you. I will offer assistance to a bloke having trouble with pulling a loaded cart through a door as well. Doff my hat not just to women either.
That as two side notes: It is not my main 'beef'; the crux is simple politeness, being courteous.
Anyway, the seller was American and I have simply cancelled. I cancelled because of the lack of manners but yes, maybe I would have been more forgiving to a less arrogant attitude from Iceland but then, I cannot imagine the same lack of manners from there: My own prejudices illustrated .... :-(
A couple of my observations about the unwashed. When shopping in Asda cars nearly always stop to allow shoppers to pass on the crossings with their trolleys, in Waitrose the drivers seem content to mow them down.
In my job I have to visit a variety of people from all social backgrounds, in poorer homes I'm invariably offered a cup of tea and a warm welcome which is a contrast to the well to do homes I visit.
It would be well mannered to say a simple "thanks" after someone has replied to a request for help/advice on the forum, however this doesn't always happen. Rude and ignorant.
F.T.F.A.
I never take things for granted, Always say "thank you" however small the favour might have been.
As I'm not in this hobby for the money, people who bark for information or a lower price for my watch on SC never succeed with me.
A polite question if, due to a tight budget, shipping costs can be shared, will not fall on deaf ears.
Even with my little girl I'm sending her back to my neighbour to say thank you when she's been given a treat or something. Start early, it's important IMHO.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
TBH I hold the door open regardless of whether it is a women or a man waiting to enter/exit.
I did this yesterday is a busy shopping centre, whilst carrying a load of shopping, the man behind me (looked Eastern European) was so surprised he just stopped in his tracks for a second, looked at me, smiled and said "Thank you very much" as if I has just handed him a £50 note before coming through!
Add: With regard to the pulling the chair out for your date - I think that is a bit antiquated in my book. Most women I know probably wouldn't comment directly but would feel it was OTT.
Last edited by vagabond; 27th January 2015 at 10:21.
Period.
This again applies in general; to questions/answers put/given in any context.
Nobody is perfect though and unintentional! slips are made and should not be taken offense to.
In fact I see no reason to take offense even when intentional or when intentionally actively rude. Then bad manners would affect YOU. Just take notice.
But i AM 'antiquated' :-)
Nevertheless I find especially much younger women the most appreciative.
To me the phenomena; being courteous to women, has become a point of study
It is interesting to observe a trend there:
The 50+ is in general still appreciative but also expecting such manners.
The 35-50 is in general not used to it and VERY sensitive to the way you do it.
The under 35 is in general totally swooned.
At the moment her in Spain the 'piropo' has been taken under fire by the 35-50 women.
The underlying issue is that they themselves have no clue about what a piropo IS (should be). That it simply is meant as a compliment. That knowing how to take a compliment is good manners too.
They themselves are poorly educated in that respect. Why prohibited others who do know how to be courteous+ to make a compliment in an intelligent manner.
The grey porridge effect again. Because the MacDonalds eaters have degenerated taste buds and oversensitive bowels, spicy food should be prohibited...
The last one.
I hold doors for both sexes, if they're relatively close behind me. I get annoyed if I get no thank you! What I don't do is hold a door for someone who is a long enough way off that they feel like they have to skip forward and catch up, as I hate it when that is done to me...
Seems like some are still trying to do the right thing - and some still appreciate it;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-30980418
I do agree that basic manners are probably lacking nowadays however I have to be honest and say that mine are very very slowly eroding. I have lost track of the amount of times I have let someone cross a road, or someone out of a junction or held a door for someone without even a simple acknowledgement.
Imo this is just as rude.
It is indeed the same thin; not good manners.
You should however not allow yours to erode into blunt because they are not kept honed by acknowledgement. It is about YOU being a gentleman.
Thanks for the link langtof lad.
That amused me. A thread about being rude, then a sweeping derogatory statement about Americans and their culture.
I have found manners in America, especially in the service industry, to be impeccable (often to the point of being irritating).
fwiw I hold doors, say excuse me and do the British thing of apologising even when it's blatantly someone elses fault.
Please do read it all and what is actually written; not just what you want to read.
Also there is quite a difference between following the letter of procedure pursuing a commercial interest and good manners.
Good manners are shown regardless of the interest/result.
Maybe just extend it to a woman?
That would correctly read 'female'.
Btw, because of being a heterosexual male, I respond to females differently than to males.
Is that 'sexist' or normal?
To be honest I do not care.
I behave honorably, with open visor, no hidden agendas, courteous, polite because I am a gentleman. Yes there is 'man' as in male in there; Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Last edited by Huertecilla; 27th January 2015 at 11:56.
I bought something from a corner shop once and the bloke behind the counter said nothing all.
As I walked away I sarcastically nodded my head and said "thank you"
He said "thats ok"
That might not be considered good manners though :)
Send me a dictionary of social etiquette, It seems I need one
Yes but it was the lady's toilet door ..Badum-tish
Zilla the only one without manners is you. You constantly blame everything American for your poor Spanish lifestyle. Mirrors aren't just for combing hair I suggest you take a deep inner look at yourself.
I have never met a rude American - shame I cant say the same about the British
Manners Makyth Man.
With all the crap being spouted about vocational training deficits as the reason the Yoof of Today cant't find / hold down a job - and the need to develop 'soft skills', you'd think someone might call it as it is.
I will happily consider a well mannered teenager with poor exam results over a boorish A-grader any day; Im sure Im not alone.
Interesting observations. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Have meanwhile found a more, well probably simply more professional, American supplier that does not give the impression that you are lucky to be allowed to order. No European one unfortunately. Nothing to do with anything else than preferring my money to go around in the Europe Economy.
This while enjoying a drink and delicious tapas in the sun on a village square terrace. Weirdly hot sun with a view on the snow covered north side of the Sierra San Jose.
Three terraces btw. Stark differences in service yet most customers seem not to notice. Since you get what you reward there is thus no selection on better service.
Ah, what do I care?
I do take my business to support good manners and for the rest the general erosion makes even one eye king so imagine having two.
Hence our great efforts invested in our son who is growing up between oafs who think it normal to speak while masticating and only know to refill with one tool in the right hand supported by the elbow on the table. Per example.
Never mind saying please or thank your and actually DOing something NICE without direct self interest is alien.
I am sure you are not alone Bristolian, but I see little proof of it, otherwise the erosion would not be so general.
I really don't think we can blame it all on the yanks.
In my dealings with them (as family and friends) their manners have always been impeccable.
But speak as you find.
Cheers,
Neil.
So perhaps you should choose your girlfriends more carefully?
^^^this!^^^
Menno
Ok, so it is no just US tv.
Nice illustration.
Most of the U.S. customers I have visited have been in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Massacheusets. All are very polite. Going to South Carolina was like being in a time warp, achingly formal.
Devon: everyone is polite there. ;-)
I find Americans are generally more polite than Europeans, but not even close to Canadians when it comes to apologising for any perceived discourtesy: good manners are evident wherever you go in Canada and I reckon the first two words their children learn are ‘please’ and ‘thank you’.
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I agree, although I have no connection with most of the American culture, I must say they are a very polite people.
When I worked at Schiphol as a high risk flight agent, and had to do interviews with people boarding the plane, the Americans were always grateful, coöperative and polite, a lot of Europeans got slightly irritated and even rude when asked the questions.
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
The two most important 'palabras magicas' for the smallests of children. It engrains respect and not taking things for granted.
Educating offspring does not require any schooling though. The only requirement is sex without protection or birth control. Not the best of selective criteria concerning thoughtful manners...
The peers and teachers; the 'education' by the school system which I am obliged to expose my kid to, presents another problem. Not at all that easy to maintain standards when the public educational system does not, to the contrary 'teaches' undesired behavior.
Work in progress indeed.
Starting x-mas holiday we have seriously extended rationing tv time and when it is switched on to view a specific program it is now turned off during the endless commercials. This makes us all aware of the ludicrous frequency and duration of those blocks. Those are such that it automatically leads to not bothering with the program...; come on let's do some fun work together. Maybe he will desire to become an intelligent well mannered carpenter, plumber, mechanic.
At least he does not want to play football; 'because they think it is cool to hawk & spit on the grass!' he says with disgust.
I irritate a lot of people unintentionally. Sometimes I am (culture) aware enough to notice, often not. I did live a professional life in London, and continue to work and play with people from several continents. However, I was not bred into the British culture nor any subculture, and my language skills are inadequate in many situations. In my native culture and language I am seen as a traditionalist with very nice if somewhat antiquated manners.
So please do accept my apologies to the whole of TZ community that I have unintentionally offended. (You will notice if I intend to offend, being the caveman I am.)
The flipside is naturally cultural awareness and the willingness to adjust even when on own turf. I have found that not all national cultures provide equal ability or attitude for that.
In any society there will be people with good manners and people with bad manners. Hopefully the good ones will be recognized and respected also when crossing cultural boundaries.
Edit: missing word, typo
Last edited by hako; 28th January 2015 at 21:58.
While looking in the mirror he might pause to ask himself that if he is indeed the charming, debonair, well mannered and interesting gent he believes himself to be, then why is it that his wife dumped him?
I thought that the BP was the place where comments that would otherwise be beyond the pale were expressed
There are times it feels really unpleasant on here
Sorry about that Tony, but I doubt I will be the only one thinking this way.
Captainhowdy - The reaction H clearly provokes in you is, I have come to believe, probably entirely unintended. The forum will remember his contribution long after yours or mine (ephemeral as they are in comparison) have evaporated.
Peter.
Last edited by forpetesake; 29th January 2015 at 00:06.
The question is if you care enough to consider it good manners to send an email confirming arrival and perhaps containing a small thank you when someone sends you a couple of Russian watches for free. If you don't we disagree on what good manners are. If you do you have, presumably inadvertantly but nevertheless, failed to show them.
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