Just had a look on Blowers website and they've got 14 steel Daytonas, all fairly recent, with a couple of unused examples at £500 over list. Clearly, no-one's snapping these up.....they're not exactly jumping off the shelf!
Has demand dropped, has the 'iconic status myth' been shattered?.....or have they simply become too expensive?
Might consider a used example in the near future and that's why I`m taking an interest in the market.
Paul
I think the hype died off some time back. The retail on these has quashed some of the demand, especially during harder times. Still, there is no escaping the fact that the 116520 is just stunning, the in house movement is pretty stunning too. No longer a rare bird, but a cracking looker nevertheless.
I think when we start seeing them discounted - thats when the bubble has burst!
But when they're sat unsold, you don't think the bubble has burst?Originally Posted by kultschar
The mythical 7 year waiting list, sell for an instant profit on collection from AD etc etc.......
I think the problem Blowers has is they are offering a watch over list price on the basis of historical limited availability. It's a hard line to sell when you have 14 of them.
No, it hasn't.
Yeah but look at Blowers prices! The cheaper ones are "used" and selling around retail and the new ones are actually over retail.
I think its still very much a "in demand" watch but people not willing to pay above retail any longer! The bubble prob burst only in that respect.
e.g. Its still hard to see a new SS version in an AD window.
Im not saying they are rare and I guess you are kinda right but I think until they are hanging in windows like Subs etc.....
I guess as soon as the bubble really does burst, Rolex will chuck out the ceramic SS and it will start all over again
What you dont know is how many they sell a month!
RIAC
What has that got to do with anything? Do you know how many they sell per month?
You think that having 14 in stock means they are not desirable but if you sell 14 each month and replen then thats alot more interesting!!!!
RIAC
I don't think the bubble burst, I think it slowly deflated down to nothing though. In 2004, I recall seeing NIB SS Daytonas going for around $10,000 on the forums. Now they go for around $12,000 or less. It was a different world when the Daytona had an MSRP of $5,000.
I didn't say they weren't desirable. I have looked at their stock plenty of times, IMO they aren't moving particularly fast.
You sure they're the same 14 watches?
IMO the Daytona is overhyped and overpriced.
There is better out there for the money.
I think the latter Paul.
It wasn't that many years ago when they were £3k retail and you could always get a nice premium.
The retail price now has effectively put a stop to that IMO.
Cheers,
Neil.
It's a recurring thread. There is no longer a used premium over new - this alone fuelled a market in used Daytona watches. & regardless of what anyone says, there was a 5-7 year waiting list with a number of AD's. Some AD's still have waiting lists for them running into years - I have no doubt that the take up is less than it used to be, when your time actually comes, but there is still a list at most busy AD's.
I think I waited around 2 years for my first UK steel Daytona - I paid a little over £3k - maybe £3460 (sounds about right).
So... if bubble meaning the arse has fallen out of the Daytona market, then no it hasn't burst. If you simply mean there might be the odd one available in the window of an AD that you can actually buy, then on that strange interpretation, yes, the bubble has well and truly burst!
It's just a matter of time...
They seem to be undersized wrt to modern tastes. Still a good looking watch, but now it's overpriced and undersized. It may make a comeback as watch of choice in the future if size-tastes change, or they bring out a larger version. If a larger one comes out, then I'm very 'In'.
Modern internet tastes, perhaps? Of course, personal preference is more important but the watches I see around are not significantly larger than they were 8-10 years ago. The actual number of people I see wearing 47mm PAMs or 48mm IWCs etc is vanishingly small. Sports watches are bigger/fatter I suppose, and I guess it does depend on the circles you work ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I think it's about the perfect size. I also think it is cheap (well maybe cheap isn't quite the right word, but...) compared to most in-house Chronos - just compare to similar Omega and Breitling and the price compares very well.
It's just a matter of time...
A Daytona in steel is £7500. A steel Omega Speedy 9300 is £5500 list.
The Rolex is not cheap, nor is it well priced. It has a premium price tag for a product that in the current climate is not as desireable as it once was, hence the over supply we're seeing.
When I look at Blowers' fourteen Daytonas (there are a further two showing reserved), I see a mixture of ages from 2014 back to 2003. Nine of them are over five years old. Of those nine, none of them appear to have "recent" (within two years) service papers. Blowers', of course offer a guarantee on watches they sell.
My take on this is that people are taking profit now, before possible servicing & repair costs eat into it. There may be some wishing to release funds for the new hot ticket, the SD, too, of course.
______
Jim.
People? What 14 people! Lets get back to Planet Earth, its a damn fine watch, it is worth what it is worth, it will not go down nor will it rocket in value just gain in line with all other steel sports less Yachtys & Millys arguably over time. It has been and will always be a classic but it is a £6k plus piece and that makes it out of reach for many. The new SD will sell the same as every other release.Don't believe the hype, but love the watch not the the profit!
RIAC
I love Omega, have a few vintage pieces and one modern but would not use them as way to bench mark against Rolex. In fact, if anything, I read your post as either the Omega is too expensive or the Daytona is priced right.
The Daytona RRP is £7950 which sits about right compared with similar quality steel chronographs IMHO
A Lot
This has been done to death, just because one dealer has 14 Daytonas in stock does not mean the bubble has burst.
Look at the sold list further down, I bought 2 watches from blowers one made it to the sold list the other vanishedso thats possibly not a true representation of total sales.
So the Omega 9300 caliber Speedmaster is not of similar quality then?
Blowers is advertising 14 Daytonas yet apparently listing above retail on the basis of short supply. I wonder whether it's a, "we're the go-to place for all things Rolex" statement.
I'm sure they want to have a decent supply of Daytonas for sale, if there is demand for them they'll keep the prices as they are above the RRP. If they wanted to shift them they'd lower the prices on some of them to get them gone.
I don;t think you can infer much on the state of the Daytona demand simply by the number of them Blowers has for sale. In all liklihood they will buy every Daytona they can get their hands on and not care if they've an over supply. Why?
Because they sell.
The Sub and the Daytona are the two most iconic Rolex's and the bods at Rolex hq know that and will structure supply so that people who want a Sub can go buy one for the right price and people who want that Rolex that's a bit out of reach and yet still attainable they get a Daytona. Rolex love the idea that the Daytona is sold at higher than RRP on used market, talk about demand.
When they need to the'll put out a new Daytona and up the RRP to keep the deman high if the demand reduces and you see them in AD windows.
Since I assume they do have 14 for sale, it's a statement of fact.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
No, it's an Omega
Many shrewd dealers shy away from revealing a large stock of a particular model because it lessens the image of exclusivity. I assume Blowers to be shrewd and assume they have a good reason for it.
Indeed. When trying to pass on a Kermit sub to a well-known dealer a good few years ago, although he had only listed one on his website, he actually had 26 of them in the safe!!
Great reasoning, thanks for that.
As someone said, a recurring theme.
Certainly the demand-supply mismatch is not what it used to be in the years gone by.
As to why, I think it is multifactorial.
Rolex seems to have eased up on the supply choke hold, prices have gone up while overall economy hasnt kept pace, there are more choices, shifitng tastes etc.
The time is ripe for a new 42mm model IMO.
The bubble bursted in 2008
since then I can get them pretty easy from th AD
and secondhand they sell 20% under list....... it used to be different
and btw for a bit more than half the price of the daytona you can get a zenith el primero
It'll perhaps be interesting to see how these Newmans go...
www.ebay.com/itm/201073574083
www.ebay.com/itm/201073569954
www.ebay.com/itm/201073567161
That Omega has no history, and is far from the premier Chrono in the Omega line up. You could have paid around £15k for an old style steel split second speedy!
It's just a matter of time...
Definitely no, what would be the basis for your comparison?
Comparing Apples & Oranges again, the 9300 is just as good as the Daytona for the money and if you the buyer want it. No watch stands alone as 'The Best' they are all well made, desirable, and beauty and satisfaction lie on the eyes of the beholder
I am not sure that is a compliment!!
RIAC
Watchfinder had the Daytona in their recent Rolex flash sale, I was seriously considering at £6.5k.
* Both mid-range brands with history
* Both brands known to the man on the street
* Both model names with history
* Both watches that have changed since original inception
* Both watches with in-house automatic movements
I think it's a very fair comparison if people turn their Rolex bias off.
Thanks for displaying your clear understanding of cutting edge watch making.
It also describes a Navitimer, probably not a Zenith though as that really isn't a known name.
They are all equivalent using those definitions. However the question was about quality. An Omega Speedmaster is made of steel (not the same steel though) and lots of glass, and probably put together about as well as the Rolex. It doesn't yet have any history of its own, being a new model with name purloined from a very old one, and although its movement looks very promising indeed, hasn't yet proved itself.
Unfortunately it's also very large and showy, with lugs in the middle of its case because of the pudding-bowl caseback, and is likely too large for most people, especially as it "wears vast".
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
No bias from me - I love both brands - but how thick is the PO Chrono??
It's just a matter of time...
QED. :)
Which are their in-house movements?
I have never seen a SS Daytona in an ADs window display. Surely if the bubble has burst you'd be able to walk in after seeing one in the window and negotiate a reasonable discount.
They're still very much in demand, maybe Rolex are just supplying more than they have historically to meet the demand?
I agree about the Navitimer. Your 'quality' argument doesn't make sense to me though, unless the difference in steel grade is substantial (which I think not).
We're not talking about the PO, we're talking Speedy. And I don't think the thickness is relevant in the quality discussion, it's an aesthetic difference in order to show off the movement.
The Speedy has the 9300 caliber, the Rolex the 4130. Both in-house and only available from Omega or Rolex.
Last edited by Guitarfan; 16th April 2014 at 10:54.
I believe Rolex stipulate that they're not allowed to be displayed in the window...
I seem to recall the 9300 is made by ETA, but only available to Omega. Does that count as in-house?
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