Dear All
I have had a number of requests on boards to offer further information, many have slated and critisised this watch saying it is a fake, quite frankly the reason I didn't respond to this is I could not be bothered with the petty tit for tat that seems to go on with the jealous people on forums. However now the project is drawing to a close I thought I would put a few things straight.
This project was started by myself when a group of fellow aviators (who have flown the aircraft for on average 15-20 years each and around 4000 hours on type) decided to do something for the forthcoming out of service of the Military Sea King helicopter. Brietling and Bremont were 2 manes floated to make a watch as they have made many aviation and Squadron pieces in the past. As a watch collector I said why not approach some of the better watch houses. AP would not do it but Rolex said they would chat. Following a number of meetings and explaining how this aircraft had flown in every conflict since the British bought it in 1969, as well as SAR. It was decided 179 pieces would be made, the number of aircraft bought and the watch would only be for sale to people with a connection to the aircraft, I was asked to manage sales as I was part of this community and could verify stories, the watch would never be released or sold by Rolex as a collection. Due to factors I wont go into here the number was reduced to 123, all numbered with number 1 being a solid 18K gold model, so afectlivly 1 of 1.
The watch was supplied by Rolex London and has all paperwork, some buyers have already tried to sell them on and quite frankly I don't care what people do with them, I just agreed to verify stories for the original sale. They were all sold at GMT RRP and no discounts.
The watches will hopefully feature in a Rolex Collectors invite only exhibition in March in London, watches number 001 and 002, a gold and a stainless steel example. The reason this was all kept secret is following my statement on the internet, I now admit a foolish one, Rolex were inundated with phone calls to confirm authenticity, and they happily confirmed this however asked me to stop as they did not want the calls and e mails. I offered this for sale through specific circles and yes one of them was facebook however to targeted groups, some open, so maybe seen by the general public but many closed.
The watch states 'Fear God Honour the King' this was a saying used by the original test pilots in 1966 and since adopted by the RN Junglies.
So I hope this has answered a few questions to the haters and doubters, at the end of the day say what you will, I am happy with the gold piece I own and a stainless one too.
Spot on that, everyones entitled to their opinions and everyone else is entitled to tell 'em to bugger off!
Its really special to own something rare and significant to you, its as good as any other LE out there.
Its a shame those 'chosen' to purchase 'chose' to move them on...
Well done on the project, and thanks for the follow up...
if I may offer my opinion, I remember your first post and all you did was post a few blurry photos and very little else, I would imagine if you had spent a bit more time with a better thought out introduction etc I expect the feedback would have been a lot more satisfying......
Cheers..
Jase
Yes your probably right but I am not really a user of forums and at the time just thought I would throw it out there to see what people thought, now I see forums seem to be a brutal, bitching space for people. Not really my scene but felt I had to now set the record straight. Thank you for your comments anyway.
They are neither brutal nor bitching usually but as mentioned above your introduction was somewhat lacking. There have been many 'fake' limited series Rolex over the years and very few genuine ones. The clearance diver edition was recently all over the forums and had a different reception. My personal opinion is that Rolex will stop offering these limited runs if they continue to end up being offered straight away for huge premiums.
So is it a GMT with a Sea King back?
Yes. It is...
I have to say that the Italian police, Panama Canal etc all have logo'd dials and that at least helps the feeling of having a 'special' watch. These ones do nothing for me. If it was my money I would go for a Comex with some dive history and photos. At least there is some genuine patina and a bit of history. These brand new watches are just that.
The oddest I've seen is dominos and Levi's
http://static.squarespace.com/static...g?format=1000w
I've been offered one of these... Still pondering it at the moment!
One on chrono24 for £14k.
Was the case back out sourced , or made at the rolex factory ?
Was there any nice paper work to go with them ?
It all seemed a bit fishy on watchuseek, with no real answers.
And yes forums can be nasty places, some people have killed themselves after abuse on them.
Looks great it is a shame people have sold them though
Curioser and curioser.
The thing with any limited edition is that the market will ultimately decide on the value. Like with the "military" Bremont watch before, it seems a bit too much of a get rich quick scheme to me, what with the constant emphasis on rising value. I would be curious to know what Mike Wood would say on the matter.
edit: Why did you write about this on your CV?
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/richard-liddle/51/492/96
Last edited by lenny; 17th February 2014 at 01:44.
Originally Posted by lenny
Lenny
I put a piece on my linkedin as a number of my contacts are ex sea king chaps and if was a way for them to see it, I actually thought I had removed it to be honest. Your right the market will decide however I really didn't get into this to make a profit I just wanted a special watch, I have the only gold one and stainless and am happy. I only put a piece up to try and settle a few scores, not really a forum user and judging by Rolex forum who have closed the tread, as I got some banter so bantered harder back, it just seems people would rather slate than ask a question. Yes there is paperwork however being deployed at present I can not provide a picture but will in time.
I'm releasing a limited edition Rolex Peking, with 'Made in China' engraved on the back, it'll be a collector's item for sure.
Sell 100 rolex for Rolex get a gold one free !
Or buy 100 rolex for a 50% discount and you sell for RRP then after the sale, you fit a case back and get some paper work printed ?
Did Rolex make the case back or not ?
All the other forums, it sounds like you agree to sell 123 standard Rolex GMT and got the case back out sourced.
So rolex can auth the watch as it's not fake, but can Rolex auth a "seaking" se number as a seaking watch ?
You state you have sold them but still no paper work , again I guess because Rolex have nothing to do with it, rolex would not sell a watch with no paper work !
The reason it's fishy is , you never answered any question on watchuseek or the rolex forum.
So people got pissed off with the lack of real information.
And now Rolex also want you to stop !
Was like a dragons den outtake, where every one said "i'am out" when you failed to answer simple questions.
I have not avoided any questions, all watches were sold by Rolex bond street at RRP including the gold one, I purely managed the order book to ensure the watches went to those with a connection, each green card that accompanies the watch states GMT Sea King ltd ed with the number. The case backs were done by Rolex but I believe a UK engraver, that was there business as I was simply supplied with the complete watches.
What other questions have I not answered, please advise, I'm not asking you to buy one!
Last edited by richie2956; 17th February 2014 at 10:42.
that's fine then :-)
if you stated all that on the other 2 forums in the 1st post you would have not got any hassle.
it was the lack of pictures and info, even the one for sale on Crono24 has no pictures of the green Rolex card or any real info, its juts listed at 14k and a pic of the case back.
there have been a few ltd Rolex, inc another over the dominos and Levis ones
Sir, the one on chrono 24 I am staying away from, is a chap who bought legitimately and then sold on to my disappointment. It has been slated and maybe I should have put pictures up of the card however when people throw abuse rather than simply asking to see pictures that is when I leave forums, hence unanswered questions before.
As I have said forums arnt my scene and was just trying to show an interested military audience a piece of history to commemorate one of the greatest military aircraft.
And here I was thinking this was a long-forgotten variant of the Air King!
I think the whole 'limited edition Rolex' thing has kind of had its day since everything Rolex now seems to be seen as a licence to print money first, as a timepiece a very distant second. I can understand why you'd want to commemorate the Sea Kings demise - just a shame this has succumbed to the usual snipes. I had to chuckle at the reference in this thread to the Domino's and Levi's 'special editions' as someone always posts a link to them - with some kind of 'omg can this be real' reference even though I would have thought these links are very well known in WIS circles. It would be nice to see done pics of the dial but I assume the Sea King is ultimately a GMT with just the caseback and paperwork to set it apart?
Reading through this thread, it appears to me that the criticisms and suspicions have been caused by the fact that this watch suddenly appeared out of nowhere. It is not unusual to make a limited edition "special" but most projects of this nature are usually well-documented on forums, where the project has been discussed from conception to completion and usually a few design options are presented before putting it to the vote for the final version.
I'm sure that if you can point us to a thread where this was discussed, it will silence the critics.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Eddie
The reason being is this did not happen in a public forum, and I am no forum user, the designs and concepts were all discussed behind closed doors with members of the RAF and Fleet Air Arm as these are the chaps this watch was aimed at. It has been a concept for nearly a year and in the design process, I can understand you think it has come from know where and that is just the way we wanted it, it was not up for open discussion to decide a design but rather decided in a room by the chaps who came up with the idea. Hopefully in time people will realise why we as aviators wanted this watch and people will realise there is no scam.
So the paperwork says it's a GMT yet the dial is from a Seadweller and presumably the depth rating is just for show? I can see there being genuine confusion with this.
Eh? Can you show the one with a Seadweller dial? The one I've seen was a GMT.
Foggy
I think he's confusing the Sea King one with the one in post 20...
Cheers..
Jase
Yeah I am - so there's no pic of the dial side on this thread.
Correct, it's the caseback and paperwork that are different than standard.....
Cheers..
Jase
Correct. It is no different to any other modern GMT. The caseback engraving is the only difference on the physical watch.
Thanks. Seems to be a storm in a teacup then if it's just the case back.
It's a real shame that there was nothing different done to the dial IMO.
For me, a limited run watch from a top end brand, must have something printed on the dial to set it apart from any other watch.
I wonder why Rolex didn't write "Sea King" and maybe the dates of service on the dial. That would really have made them a special piece and something very personal for those who served to own.
As it is, an engraved case back, for me, doesn't really do much to differentiate the watch, as nice as the engraving is though.
In fact, you 'could' have approached an AD and asked for a whacking great discount on 123 GMT's and then had all the case backs engraved yourself. Same end result, but possibly £120,000 cheaper
But then you would have 123 non-Rolexes...In fact, you 'could' have approached an AD and asked for a whacking great discount on 123 GMT's and then had all the case backs engraved yourself. Same end result, but possibly £120,000 cheaper
But without a warranty and the first time it goes to a RSC a bill for a new case back, oh and no paperwork to support the limited edition other than that it's the 'same'
In fact, you 'could' have approached an AD and asked for a whacking great discount on 123 GMT's and then had all the case backs engraved yourself. Same end result, but possibly £120,000 cheaper
I'm going to stick up for Richie here, we on here would perhaps have done things differently because we know the scene, Richie undertook the project with the best of intentions I'm sure, it's fully endorsed by Rolex and the engraving looks amazing.... I'm not sure that there will be huge interest from people outside the Sea King community in owning one at a premium though, but that's not the point of it, if your involved and can afford it then it's a great piece of memorabilia of your time in service....
Richies way of showing it to the watch collecting community was flawed, but if your not familiar with the etiquette of forum life then your going to trip a bit....
Nice job Richie, enjoy your watches.....
Cheers..
Jase
That is not true is it? I have seen MANY Rolex watches with engravings go in for service and come back with the same case back. An altered dial etc. however - that may cause a little unrest ;)
It's just a matter of time...
Absolutely - I'd love to see the type of warranty cards provided though. As presumably these would be the same/similar for anyone else looking at a special edition.
It's just a matter of time...
I've never had one with an engraved back so would have to bow to your experience, my post was based on Rolex's well publicised stance on returning watches to standard when presented for service happy to be wrong, though I still believe if you have had a third party remove the case back then you've invalidated the warranty,
The ones you've seen have they been graphic engravings or the standard 'Jon Doe 60 years service' type?
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 17th February 2014 at 15:54.
Yes, if the case-back is removed, and this is clearly the case, then I'd assume the warranty is invalidated. Might not need it removed to do the engraving - but possibly helps.
It's just a matter of time...
I'm pretty sure that the majority of buyers of this watch didn't buy it with an eye on future values.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
So according to another thread on this subject on Turf.. Rolex have said 50 clearance diver DSSD were made and that the Sea King is a genuine special commission ( not an issued piece). They have also said that the number of 123 is not accurate.
I've just phoned Rolex at Bond Street an asked the question, they confirmed that they did indeed sell 123 of these and that Rolex where involved, anyone who doesn't believe me is welcome to ask the AD....
Interesting... Following two thread on this and each says different. :(
I am not a member of TURF so can not comment on what has been said there, numbers, the watches are numbered 1-123 and this can be seen on the case backs, however at present all have sold but only 92 been manufactured, I can only assume this is where the confusion on numbers lies.
Hear Hear ! +1 be nice to see papers as supplied by Messrs.Rolex
I apologise if my previous post came across as bitchy or nasty, that wasn't my intention.
I was just saying how nice it would have been if Rolex had done something to the dial so that the watch was a little different whilst on the wrist.
As it is, I think it's ace, and a great piece for those associated with the Sea King to own. Wear them in good health!
IMHO, and this is what I have been always thinking/telling/writing, no matter what others think/say, if you like your watch, this is the only think that matters.
Great project, btw. Cheers!
That must have been a huge undertaking to arrange so hats of to you Richie for getting it done. It's a shame for whatever reason there couldn't have been 179 of them manufactured, would've been very apt. :encouragement:
Guys, thank you, it's actually nice to have some positive words about the project. It has been exceptionally hard work but slowly coming to an end now. It is unfortunate about the 179 but got slightly out of my hands. I did want something on the dial, actually the word sea king in green just above the GMT master line, this is what we wanted however Rolex refused. Other companies offered to do this on their watches and offered further customisation, however we elected for Rolex as they generally don't do limited editions and to be honest I like the subtle nature of the mod, more personal. We also tried to incorporate airframe numbers on to each watch, all 179 however there were too many after the same numbers, first ones they flew, ones they flew in the Falklands/Iraq/Afghanistan and this would basically leave around 50 that were just your work horse aircraft that know one wanted, and a lot of additional admin and work for me. Everyone involved in the project is happy and I am happy I could do something for the whole sea king aviation community.
Forget the haters, the caseback looks excellent, job well done.
I for one, would love to see a picture of the solid gold caseback engraved, must look the nuts!
Also, isn't it hilarious, how in every thread people go on and on about how generic a Rolex is, how they make 10000000000000 watches each year, only idiots wear them etc etc....
Then when someone dares to engrave a stainless steel caseback on a few (a replaceable part with no serial number on it), all of a sudden it's "OMG ITS NOT A REAL ROLEX ANYMORE, THEY WONT TOUCH IT NOW!" as if someone just defamed the shroud of Turin...
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