Reply With QuoteMore than a little disturbing, when you see some of the other stuff they are selling. Anyone for a replica Zyklon B canister? :shock:
http://www.pzg.biz/clocks_watches.htm
My favourite part of the descritpion:
:P :? :shock: :lol:For added autheticity, the clock face is set into an aluminium riveted case with a raided polished crystal. (Requires 1AA battery not included).
Check out the Free Gift near the bottom of the page on the left... :shock:
Best wishes and good luck.
AP :shock:
More than a little disturbing, when you see some of the other stuff they are selling. Anyone for a replica Zyklon B canister? :shock:
Very very disturbing.
Ailfrid, I appreciate your knowledge of watches, your sense of humor, and I've so far enjoyed every one of your posts.
Linking to an offensive trash site like that, however, is the exception to that rule. I trust it you understand my having strong feelings about that subject and feeling an obligation to speak up. It's not just "a little disturbing", it's downright disgusting. Thanks for listening.
Guntram
I understand your revulsion to the watches, I agree.
I am surprised that such watches are being sold-there is apparrently a market for them, though this is not totally surprising given the views of some groups; better to revile and laugh at it for what it is than to have pretended I had not seen or stumbled across it.
There will be those who seek to make a market out of this kind of thing.
The humerous part is the part I quoted: it is from the Outragous to the Ridiculous.
I suppose some watches have uncomfortable histories, arguably some more than others, attatched to them. It is perhaps how one takes them and means by them.
Best wishes,
AP
With all due respect - "Your Third Reich HQ" is not just about watches, and I see absolutely nothing even remotely "humorous" in that. My revulsion, as you call it, does not pertain only to the product, it's the entire site that I find repulsive. And I actually take exception to how you trivialize one of history's most murderous, criminal and oppressive regimes like that. What's next, Pol Pot teddy bears? Stalin smurfs? How funny and cuuuuute. NOT.
Guntram
Steady on!
Trivialize? Not at all. How is that so? :shock:
It is best not to shoot the messenger, as they say. :shock:
Clearly, it is the clockmaker/designer and seller who trivializes the conflict by their remarkably ridiculous clocks. The link was shown to contextualise the ridiculousness; the'about us' link, and within this the 'Free Gift' all signs of the outragoeusness of their offering.
What is meant to be done? Pretend it is not there, when one stumbles across it.
One can quite legitimately take the view that pretending it did not happen (stumbling across it, and surprise) is rather undesirable for the precedent that sets.(...)
In such situations it is often best to laugh at their outragousness, for what else would you do, or have done? (I hardly can change the law in the US, and nor can you for that matter :wink: )
Regards,
AP
Depends. When stumbling across it, one can try to keep the site's traffic as small as possible, e.g., by not linking to it from other sites in addition. When finding such a link, (generic) you can speak up and make it clear you don't stand for that.Originally Posted by Ailfrid Pottinger
Look, Ailfrid - I realize it's not your site, nor would I suggest you support its view on the world. I just think that your link didn't help keeping those morons in the cesspit they come from and should stay in, either.
Guntram
I understand you point of view.
I do not however, need or feel the need to state that " I do not stand for that"
This is abundantly clear from: the title of the thread, the context, what I wrote and the ridicule I brought to it.
Awareness also breeds forwarning, and actions, such as complaints to hostings and to the owners and so forth, too.
Sincerely,
AP :)
I get that, and I think it can be explained by cultural background. I come from a place where people didn't use to feel that need, either, and it turned pretty much the entire population into a bunch of killing zombies. My generation was raised with a special responsibility to prevent anything like it from happening again. Consider this a reflex in most post war Germans - anything looking remotely fascist gets scolded on the spot, so the idiots never raise their ugly heads again.
As an anecdote, there was a priest a few years ago who was helplessly watching a neonazi gathering in the market square of his town. They wanted to have a demonstration which, truth be told, they had a permit for. The priest had a spontaneous idea: He rang the church bells. For 30 minutes straight. Until the neonazis realized noone was going to hear a word of what the speakers were going to say. They packed up and left.
Now, you can argue that they had a constitutional right to meet, and that's true. The court, however, found some loophole (I forget) to acquit the priest anyway. About 95% of the population including myself are very happy with that verdict, even though it may not be justice in its formal sense.
We do that. Fascists show, it raises awareness. It's sort of our equivalent to Americans defending their right to bear arms, or the French's infatuation with food - just one of those culture things. :wink:
Guntram
I think that this is an oversimplification, and as you write, any inference that one agrees with a cause just because they report observing it (like the papers in your analogy) imposes a conspiracy of (dark) silence on a matter. All the more when the report is clearly critical of the said matter at issue.I get that, and I think it can be explained by cultural background. I come from a place where people didn't use to feel that need, either, and it turned pretty much the entire population into a bunch of killing zombies. My generation was raised with a special responsibility to prevent anything like it from happening again.
I'm not sure certain generations have a special responsibilty, whatfor the next, and the one after that, and so forth. Is their responsibility any less important or special?
Fascism has been with the world for a very long time in various guises, and is likely to try to come again in some guise (some quote other leaders and they supporters as exhibiting many traits and characteristics of national-socialism).
I admire the Priest in some senses, however, perhaps the fault lay with the court for issuing the permit to gather?I'd prefer the group argued down or ridiculed than it move to another place, at another time (over or underground). I' don't know the details of this particular case.
One also is concerned that such movements gain strength underground, and complacency above ground in others, if not seen to exist. Its a large, and legitimate area of debate, though not for BMW :wink: and understandably, some are more comfortable to discuss such matters than others.
Regards,
AP :)
Agreed on both counts. But as your original post appeared here, I wasn't prepared to let it slip just because this isn't the bear pit. Instead, I felt compelled to demonstrate that those above ground aren't sleeping, no matter which forum is concerned.
Guntram
We certainly do agree that they are outragously incredible military clocks or watches.
Regards,
AP :)
The saddest thing is that the site could not exist if they didn't have customers.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
The problem is that when it rises again it will not look like anything you will recognise, to scold ... all roads to hell are be paved with good intentions.
john
Every watch a story.
Try me. :wink:
I see your point. I still think it's appropriate to be vigilant, though, and put your foot down when encountering such scum.
Guntram
It wouldn?t be fair to start a political discussion here ... so I posted a link to ?10 steps to fascism? in the Bear Pit, as it was printed in today?s paper.Try me. :wink:
I see your point. I still think it's appropriate to be vigilant, though, and put your foot down when encountering such scum.
Guntram
john
Every watch a story.
The Replica ZYKLON-B canister is probably the most disturbing thing I´ve ever came across...
Sad...
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
The problem I think is because the site that Ailfrid Pottinger posted is a shitty site with very little horological content and I for one wouldn't mind if this thread got pulled.
Sorry Alfie, I still love you tho. :wink:
john
Every watch a story.
It was (is) a rather horrible little site - but it has made me think about the allure of the "issue-watch". I'm not sure I like the results ...
Kamraj
All for free speech then John :wink:The problem I think is because the site that Ailfrid Pottinger posted is a shitty site with very little horological content and I for one wouldn't mind if this thread got pulled.
Sorry Alfie, I still love you tho. :wink:
john
Since hommages are an large area of interest, and the net is surfed, this type of thing exists.
Lets hope it doesn't grow as a market, and as alerted it is more likely that there will be complaints.
What is the threshold for 'horological value' abraxas?
I think opinions have been aired, what would the specific point be in your proposal?
AP :)
...with very little logical content :wink:The problem I think is because the site that Ailfrid Pottinger posted is a shitty site with very little horological content and I for one wouldn't mind if this thread got pulled.
Sorry Alfie, I still love you tho. :wink:
john
As Ailfrid has aleady said, do not shoot the messenger. So true...
I´m afraid that there is already a HUGE market for these items. All those Wehrmacht Helmets (easily to be found on nearly every garage sale here in austria) used to sell for a few cent´s 10 years ago.Lets hope it doesn't grow as a market, and as alerted it is more likely that there will be complaints.
Impossible to get one for under 100 euros now. Most do resell them to the US. Seems to be the biggest market for this "memorabilia" (subline: nazi shit). Sad but true.
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
I didn't shoot anybody. I just made a judgement on the contents of the site.
john
Every watch a story.
John, I did not mean your post.
I'm not as think as you drunk I am.
I agree.
It's a shame this site exists. :evil: :evil:
I still don't understand why sites like this can't be shut down at source, along with all the sicko sex sites.I agree.
It's a shame this site exists. :evil: :evil:
I'm sure it's got something to do with 'the right to free speech' which in this context makes about as much sense to me as the 'right to bear arms' which the yanks are so obsessed about.
It's 2007, about time the world took some responsibility
Rant over!
And if people don't bring attention to them they will stay even further in the dark, Ailfred :?: :?: :?: Why would you post this link? It's absurd.
One mans absurdity is anothers interest-which is the heart of it in relation to their being a market and clearly those who are interested in it.
It is better to be aware perhaps than blind to it. It is an absurd product, yet some see it as viable.
I happened upon it and rather than pretend that it did not exist, I posted the above post in some concern and indeed shock that such a thing existed.
It cuts both ways, as turning a blind eye is not such a healthy thing, and complaints may well stem from others being aware, and these would have a more desirable effect than a pretence that it was not there.
It's one post, of this nature of concern and it is related, so it's not going to break the forum! :wink:
Feelings have been aired about it so I'd rather not go on about it, or get personal about it, thanks. I think my service and that my family history (all in the military in WW2 etc., and fought against the offending movement-Nazism) is quite apparrent, so ai'd rather not bring that into question, either.
This thread had seemingly run ts course :roll:
AP
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