+1 That's what I would have said if I thought about it long enough.Originally Posted by Barryboy
Sad news indeed. Hopefully she will now get all the respect that she deserves.
The first time voted was in 1979 - for Mrs T.
Sad day indeed!!
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
+1 That's what I would have said if I thought about it long enough.
"Disciplining yourself to do what you know is right and important, although difficult, is the highroad to pride, self-esteem, and personal satisfaction."
"To me, consensus seems to be the process of abandoning all beliefs, principles, values and policies. So it is something in which no one believes and to which no one objects."
"If you just set out to be liked, you would be prepared to compromise on anything at any time, and you would achieve nothing."
Margaret Thatcher
We could do with a few more politicians who thought/acted according to these quotes.
Probably due to common sense should prevail and the doubters might widen their horizons !
My further comments to her opponents belong in the BP !
indeed. not to mention section 28, Nicaragua, South Africa, Indonesia, Chile etc. wouldn't be surprised to me see a news company highlight her relationship with Jimmy Saville as that's topical. would probably lead on to more Pinochet, PW Botha stuff...
could run for a long while but it's nothing new
Most certainly the end of an era. Oh how we could do with some modern politicians with her strength and conviction. RIP Maggie.
Andy
Thatcher did not remove free milk from schools - she simply questioned why all the milk was being purchased centrally for a fixed price when the price varied so much across the country as a whole. She stopped the centralised purchasing and instead gave the money directly to the local councils to negotiate their own deals... and the majority of them chose instead to spend it on other things.
Selling off the housing stock without putting in place concrete plans to continually renew it was a disaster though... and we are still feeling it.
I think i must be in the minority and as someone who grew up in the Thatcher era i find it difficult to agree with those who say she changed GB for the better, quite the opposite in fact imho.
Sadly i cannot see the debate in the Bear Pit but i can imagine there are strong opinions from both sides of the debate. As in life someone who divided opinion and people.
End of an era indeed, RIP Maggie.
Had the honour of "guarding" her a few times in the 90's and "noughties".
She alone among many dignitaries that I have had the dubious honour of keeping an eye on always made sure that sarnies and makings of a brew were left for those assigned to looking after her and always thanked us, in person if possible or by a note sent on afterwards.
In the big scheme of things that she will be remembered for this will seem insignificant point to many, but to me, and those doing my role it spoke volumes about her as a person.
History will judge her, and I'm sure our great great grandchildren will accord her un-biased respect, even if some of the wounds she opened are too raw to allow such respect to be shown by some now.
as I'm a relative newbie on here, what's the bear pit/how do I find it ?
I have no doubt the UK is in a stronger nation now than it would have been without her, but there are specific aspects of her policies which were demonstrably wrong and which plague us to this day. On balance I think she came out ahead - which is more than can be said for a lot of our more recent "leaders".
A balanced obituary - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10364876
It's a more robust debating forum than is allowed in G&D. Open once you've reached the requisite post count, though I forget what that is.
Very sad day, RIP Baroness Thatcher.
As WH has stated, she changed our country forever.
B
RIP Lady Thatcher. Love her or hate her she was quite an individual and by crikey did she say what she meant. Modern politicians just seem like they're playing at it.
Really? Didn't she sell of the states assets, akin to the creation of the Russian Oligarchs - only not so many of us had the forethought, or the heads up, or backers to borrow millions from to buy the shares!
I have no axe to grind, and I am sure she did a lot of good and was a strong character - probably a damn sight better than those that have followed since - although I am not sure what that says in itself.
RIP
It's just a matter of time...
Ahh I see, thanks
I wasn't her greatest fan at the time because of what she did to the miners in South Yorkshire but with hindsight just about everything else she did was good especially in terms of housing,not many who wanted to own their own house didn't during her term.
Contrast that with what the Labour Party under Blair and Brown did and the legacy they left for my three kids to sort out and I agree she will go down in history as one of our best leaders.
The UK's greatest post-war politician? RIP
But New Labour continued her "work" - Deregulation of the city, pissing up north sea oil revenues, further privatisations,eroding workers rights etc etc............
Wife, mother and then politician.
The best leader our country has had in the modern era, although i was not in favour of all her governments policies at the time. Its a shame that when we could do with her like now we have no one with the backbone, conviction, strength of character she had to sort our troubles out.
IMHO without a doubt should be a State funeral.
RIP Baroness Thatcher, a great lady.
RIP Lady T.
I did not and do not agree with many of her policies. However, I feel she led in the way she believed was right for the country and stood by her decisions. A polarising figure.
Personal opinion should, I think, be set aside at this time. She will be missed by her family and friends and my sympathies are with them for their loss.
jeff
The main thing that stops Thatcher from being considered a 'great' is how divisive she was.
Is it even conceivable to give her a state funeral when fifty percent of the state disagrees she should have one?
She was the first woman PM. Longest serving PM for... not sure, but certainly that and this century. She led us to victory in an actual legal war. Damn right she gets a state funeral!
in a time of drastic cuts everywhere, the idea of spending public money on a funeral for a woman a large percentage of the public strongly dislikes AND the whole privatisation thing she championed is more than a tad ironic
Well, lots of people thought Churchill was a cold-hearted warmongerer at the time and in gratitude for his wartime leadership, booted him out of office in 1945. Strange thing, politics (especially when after Attlee, they voted him back in again)...
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
I grew up in a South Yorkshire mining village during the Thatcher years, have relatives who fought in the Falklands war and have spent much of the past 10+ years working on Merseyside so have heard and seen lots about Mrs T. Agree or not with her policies, without doubt she was a breed apart, a true leader and I could only admire her strength of drive and commitment. As others have said, her passing is the end of an era.
Sad but expected announcement.
Our greatest post war premier IMO.
RIP Lady Thatcher.
Cheers,
Neil.
I'm sorry but most of the miners did that to themselves.
I've deleted a few posts in this thread which were on the political side. They weren't deleted for being critical of Margaret Thatcher, they were deleted for being more political than they should be for George & Dragon. If anyone feels the need for a more robust discussion, you know where it should take place.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Churchill also got a State Funeral... and came close to getting a friend of mine and huge, old BBC camera fall on to his cortège from the top of Marble Arch. That would have made the news ;)
Whilst only in my late teens when she first came to power I remember quit clearly the deep-rooted social and economic problems that beset this country in the late 70’s. There was a general air of defeat and a resigned acceptance that we were in terminal decline, or so it seemed to me.
Whilst I am not an ardent unquestioning admirer, I do believe that it was Mrs. Thatcher’s single minded determination that allowed this country to find an alternative path to the one we were on.
I do believe that without her this country would be a much poorer, in many ways, country that it is today. That she caused pain and division is unquestioned, but I also believe that history will eventual view her as one of the greatest leaders this country has had and certainly with the exception of Churchill the greatest of the 20th century.
It would have ;). I guess my point is that in terms of remembrance, even the most divisive politicians are largely remembered for their forthright game-changing conviction, years, then generations afterwards. Not just Churchill - check out Lloyd George, Beveridge, Disraeli. This is not a party-political observation, as it applies to all flavours, politics these days does seem to be more of a numbers game. The weathervane analogy mentioned above is a good one - and with that, perhaps it's off to a different subforum ;).
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
RIP undefeated.
Except by her own party.
Look on it as a vote of thanks from the millions who appreciate the good she did for the country.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Not a fan, disagree with much of what she did, but you certainly couldn't ignore her. As a politician, she at least has some integrity, sadly so lacking these days.
She was never defeated: she had more votes than Heseltine but decided not to go to the next ballot.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Do you have a credible source for that?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
....absolute Legend.
Here's an early obit which gives a well balanced retrospective.
http://news.sky.com/story/1075324/ma...y-of-iron-lady
Plus one.
Because she knew she wouldn't win, come on Eddie.....
Is that your credible source for the statement "fifty percent of the state disagrees she should have (a state funeral)"?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
I don't think many pensioners would agree with you Eddie.
RIP Mrs. Thatcher, you were a true hero who had the courage to smash the Unions grip on power. You took on Communist Russia and with Gorbachev's help brought down the Berlin Wall freeing people. You took on the Argentinian Junta and won, freeing people in Argentina and the Falklands. Your legacy will touch us all, now and for generations to come even in our daily lives.
I was a very young PC when the miners strike was on and was on the picket lines, witnessing the ugly side of Socialism. She was the right leader at the right time, someone with backbone. The alternative? a donkey jacket wearing Proudfoot taking us all to God knows where.
She deserves a state funeral for me.
Rod
R.I.P. Margaret Thatcher. 1925-2013.
State funeral is a must . Mounted police to form a guard of honour.
Extreme and unnecessary yes, but if they had just gone to work instead of starving their families it wouldn't have happened. Unions were and still are the bane of this country.
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