Reply With QuoteOne reason I have landlords insurance.
Hello,
I am currently out of the UK and have rented out my home. After a couple of months of paying on time, his rent is now overdue, and the rent collecting agency are telling me its all a mistake on the part of the tenant blah blah blah. The tenant is now not returning the agencies calls. They intend on sending him a strongly worded letter, but in the meantime I wondered if anyone had similar experiences and whether there is any action I can take in the short term. Hopefully he will "pay up" in the next couple of days, but I'd like to be prepared if I need to take this further.
Any advice will be gratefully received.
Thanks
Marc.
One reason I have landlords insurance.
Good point ! I completely forgot, I do have landlords insurance to cover the full amount of the rent. I'll have to find the contract and see what it says !!Originally Posted by Paneraiseeker
Kick him out asap. Better no tenant than a non paying tenant.
Yep I agree, I'd go and do it myself. However, I think under English Law there is only limited action that can be taken. I don't exactly know what is possible but I understand that the law in the UK protects tenants more than it protects the landlords.
Sounds like ebay!
You must act. My colleague has the same at the moment. It started by the guy telling him a sob story, so the tenant was given a bit of breathing space, but then he continued not to pay, started quoting citizen's advice bureau crap at my colleague, then one day changed the locks, faked a new contract - it's proceeded in to the full legal/bailiffs nonsense. He now realises that is he had acted immediately and started proceedings earlier he would have been saved an awful lots of stress and hassle.
As has been mentioned, UK landlords don't get much protection and if they aren't careful can leave themselves exposed to legal claims by the tenant (and as a landlord with a home and a bit of cash compared to the diddly squat the tenant owns, the landlord has lots more to lose).
In short, prepare to exercise your rights, notify all the correct parties involved and if the tenant pays up at the last minute ensure you still have records of his untimely payments and letters stating what you rights are etc.
Agree with the majority view. Act (within the law) immediately. Get your solicitor on to it - sod the agency.
Thanks for this. I don't intend to let the situation to continue beyond the weekend.I'm not very sympathetic when I feel that someone is taking me for a ride. To be honest I find the agency concerned pretty useless. I had to tell them that the tenant hasn't paid. The money comes to them first and then they pay me. So there should have been an immediate red flag that he hasn't paid.
I only used an agency once and that was once too many. Unfortunately, as has been said above, the tenant holds all the cards. Getting him out could be a long and stressful process.
Give your collection agent your views. If they are worth their salt, they should be able to "do the business"! They should be the experts. After all, that is what you pay them for. Make them earn their fees by telling them to do their job.
You have my sympathies. I experienced a similar issue with useless agency and non-performing tenant. I cut the tenant some slack on his late payment (which he blamed on the bank) on the first two occasions, and when it happened a third month he finally came clean and said that he would not be paying the rent on time in the future. I gave both tenant and agency the heave-ho at that point. The tenant left behind some damage (malicious, I suspect), the cost of which which I was unable to recoup. The new agent (a one-woman show) proved to be excellent, and she in turn found an excellent tenant. The moral is that I wish I'd acted immediately to get rid of the tenant in the first instance of late payment. I also wish I'd done more due diligence from the off in selecting the agent.
Best of luck in resolving this - it's not an easy situation to deal with when you're close by, not to mention being out of the country.
Last edited by Argon; 28th February 2013 at 21:21.
Thanks I agree. Its not the first time they have proved to be useless. Complaining seems to be water off a duck's back, but you are right, I should make them do all the work ! I'll be on their case tomorrow. Unfortunately, I think its one of those situations where if you are polite, they will give you the "run around", instead dealing with someone else who's being a bit more stroppy.
Happy to pay a visit on your behalf with some of my fellow bikers if it helps
“Don’t look back, you’re not heading that way.”
I like that idea ! Thanks !Happy to pay a visit on your behalf with some of my fellow bikers if it helps
Do you mind if I write down your nickname somewhere for future reference? Sounds like you and your mates could be very, very useful one day... ;)Happy to pay a visit on your behalf with some of my fellow bikers if it helps
Sadly, everything is in your tenants favour legally. My experience is that it will take a minimum of 3-4 months to get him out through the legal process and you'd better make sure that every bit of paper is letter-of-the-law perfect or it will take longer. I've had applications chucked out for very minor technical transgressions, and then you're back to square one. Either way, it's a lot of lost rent - probably four months plus.
That's the official answer. What you can achieve in reality depends on your tenant. If he 'knows his rights' and has played the game before, it's going to be the above or the bikers (not recommending that.) If he's a reasonable person who's fallen on hard times, pragamatism may be called for...bugger off now and I'll not come after you for what you owe. A decent tenant will probably go for that, not wanting to build a debt, and you at least get your property back and a new tenant quicker. I have never seen a single penny from a tenant who has left after getting into arrears, so don't expect that.
A friend much wiser than me told me recently to never own more houses than the one you live in.
I believe him more each day.
Thanks for this. That's what I expected really, I just wondered if anyone had any experiences that could provide any comfort. It looks like my suspicions have been confirmed. I agree that a quick practical solution is preferable.
Thanks Ryan, your friend could be right. This is my only home though. It's only let out as I am renting overseas at the moment. The sooner I can get back, the better !
Is it not usual to hold deposits and a month rent in hand?
It's just a matter of time...
Yes, I have that. It will help soften the blow should this become a drawn out affair.
I must be a complete idiot according to your mate then because I've got about sixty more.
And sixty times the hassle no doubt? If its your full time profession, then you devote the time to it accordingly.
Though if you (not the bank) own sixty houses, fair dos. That's good going. The rental income must be nice!
There's some hassle of course, but I've yet to find anything worthwhile without it. Maybe your wise friend can point me in the right direction!
Over here a couple of tricks are used:
1) Go to the place and remove the front door and take it away. When the renter complains you tell the cops you can't afford a new door because the renter isn't paying and you just don't have the money.
2) Use a lawyer to offer the renter a thousand bucks (or any amount) and pay his moving expenses if he leaves immediately. Most non paying renters love this option
I happened to find myself on a landlords' forum a while ago. One thread was devoted to how to stop the tenants using too much toilet paper, four sheets being deemed 'enough'. Another guy complained his visiting aunt used so much he only put part rolls in his own loo to dissuade her.
How do tenancy rules compare here with France and Germany?
Send a gas engineer round to service the boiler condemn it and cap the gas off no rent no money to fix it!
Might work better in winter
My advice would be not to try option one unless you enjoy prison food. Option two will stick in your gut, but it's pragmatic.
Not sure about France and Germany, but I don't know any British landlords who supply bog roll!
60 huh.., now that must be a headache..
i have got just the one.. And that's enough hassle :)
Currently 12, and with legislation so firmly on the side of the tenants thats enough, if they dont like the house, area or landlord they have the freedom to move at the drop of a hat, if they dont pay the rent it can be a pain in the arse to get them out, a level playingfield would be nice.
Don't know about France and Germany but I can tell you that in Switzerland they are even more tilted in favour of the tenant than they are here. That's why you have to be very, very careful who you rent to. I know people who lost thousands and thousands in rental income and legal bills, and they still can't kick the bastards out. Sometimes I use a system whereby the tenant's bank puts a hold in the tenant's account for an amount equal to a year's rent. The money stays in the tenant's account, but it's blocked for the duration of the agreement. That way you have a guarantee of funds for the year. That of course is on top of the deposit.
Last edited by o u t a t i m e; 1st March 2013 at 08:48.
My Dad was trying to buy an apartment in Nice. The sitting tenant that was already there had not paid rent for months and was not allowed to be removed, due to a law dating back to Napoleonic times that states shelter must be given during winter months.
May seem a daft question but is it definitely the tenant who is behind on the rent? Just my dad used to have a rental property and the rent dried up, the agent kept saying it was the tenant when in fact it was the agent who had been collecting the rent but not passing it on to my dad.
Then the agent did a runner and dropped off the grid, luckily his wife got a court summons for speeding and the local paper put her name and the road name and town of where they had moved to. It took years to get the full amount back as the agent pleaded poverty in court.
I had a non-paying tenant who lived in the house next door. He did a "moonlight", thinking he was being crafty. I was delighted to see him go! The best tenants I had were all retired. they kept the property in excellent condition and always paid on time.
Mike
They were complaining about blocked drains...
Ah, that makes more sense. It's not the amount of toilet roll they bung down there though, it's all the other stuff. Best not to think about it.
Tip I've seen is to squash the roll so doesn't spin well. For children really but might work with elderly aunts!
What sort of tenancy is it?
Shouldn't your rent collecting agency be going out to see him rather than sending letters (easy option).
Of course, there are a lot of such cases, where tenants appears to make their rent payments too late, which always disturb the owner. But i think there is always a due date for rent payments, and tenant are required to pay their rents with in due date, if fall short an owner could charge a fine/surcharge on it to make his payments on tome. Which always work effectively. As a tenant would never likes to pay extra amount on his rent.
The problem is, if he's not going to pay his rent, he won't pay any penalties either. So I don't think this would be much of a deterant.
Its a standard 1 year tenancy agreement with an option to renew for a further year.
I guess the agency won't send anyone around in person in case he becomes violent. I can understand that they have an obligation to protect their staff and not put them in potential danger.
I guess I'll have to let the agency do their jobs and hope for the best. If nothing happens in the next week, I'll take it further. Fortunately I'll be back in the UK the following week, so I will be able to rattle some cages.
If the agency have reason to think the tenant may be violent, then that's understandable. But you haven't indicated he's a violent person. Certainly I would expect any agency I use to approach a non-paying tenant in person to discuss the issue.
Short and sweet,
serve a Section 21 and a Section 8,
if your agency had any intelligence they would have included a Section 21 notice with the tenancy agreement.
That is not a standard, it's something dreampt up by estate agents to get you to pay them fees each time it needs renewing. Both yourself and the tenant will be paying fees for that I expect.Its a standard 1 year tenancy agreement with an option to renew for a further year.
You only need an AST which is for 6 months minimum, after 6 months it becomes a rolling contract month by month, with the option for either party to cancel.
Tenant must give 1 months notice, landlord must give 2 months notice.
Serve a Section 21 because you simply want the property back.
Serve a Section 8 because you want them out due to rent arrears.
Always do both, if you only do a Section 8 they could pay you up to date and if they do it again you have to go through the process again.
Bah - I'm going to have to rent my UK house out after my mate moves out in 3 months. Looking forward to that not. What is it about properties that bring out the worst in people and the worst of people.
Sell the debt on to the baddest gangsters/loan sharks you can find and hoping they will extract the cash with maximum prejudice.
Last edited by Dazzler; 1st March 2013 at 17:37.
Thanks everyone for responding and especially to K300 for the detailed advice. I am very much a novice at this game, so its good to have some solid information to be going on. I can at least tell the agency what I want to be done. On the plus side the current tenant has a guarantor so hopefully I will get paid by someone. I also have landlord insurance to cover the rent, but I don't know how effective this will be.
Thanks again
Marc.
No they can't, punitive charges are not enforceable in UK law.
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