I just saw this on 3T: It looks like Helson and Benarus got their bronze from the same supplier and they were both sent the wrong composition bronze. What they got was bronze but was not sort they thought they were getting. Both companies are issuing recalls for their bronze watches.
Thread here: http://www.timetechtalk.com/forum1/24450.html
Steve Laughlin's (of Benarus) comment in the above thread:
The material we received came with a certificate showing that what we bought was cusn8. I think we were given the other material because they must have wanted to get rid of the current inventory and not special order the cusn8. We now can see a color difference in the cusn8, it is more red/pinkish and this is the color we want. This recall is because we want our watches to be the Cusn8 and nothing else. What we have is a mix of copper, tin, and zinc. It does not match the mix of copper and tin that Cusn8 needs to be.
We started our own investigation after we saw a few other companies coming out with bronze watches. Peter Helson and Benarus both got our material from the same supplier. Ralf has found the new CUSN8 from a supplier in Germany and we will also double test the material before we machine it. The CUSN8 that we just purchased was the same price as the material we were given before.
The email from Benarus to the bronze customers has not gone out yet because we were not quite ready to execute the recall, we have just received the new material and after we finish our own testing we are going to machine 70 cases for the previously sold bronze Morays as well as 50 new ones for the new Bronze Moray that we will begin to produce soon.
Our main reason for using the CUSN8 is the beautiful color and the ratio of copper and tin makes it a more sea water resistant bronze than the other formulas. Sorry we did not get it right the first time, we were lied to and we have come up with a plan to make it right.
That blows for them, first class response and hope they can recover some of their losses.
I look at the Helson a couple of days ago - hmmm I like that, I'll take a day to think about it - then they all went inside of 24 hours. Massive watches at 45mm.
Yeah something like that could send a business to the wall. Hope they can claim on all the costs associated with the recall, refit and reissue.
Good on them for announcing it and trying to set things right.
+1 sounds like they are on the ball, hope the arsey supplier gets payback.Originally Posted by jason recliner
Potential health issue?
Lots of copper compounds are horribly toxic - including those associated with verdigris - and they'll poison you just by sitting on your skin.
Agreed.
One wonders what other bronze watches might have been affected. Unsubstantiated claims from some people aside, I understand that Magrette are testing the metal used for their Regattare Bronze to confirm that it is what it should be.
**edit**
Fixed typo.
An interesting addition from Steve Laughlin (Benarus) on 3T:
I want to be clear about some details. This is not the fault of our factory. Our factory was very disappointed when the test results came back and they are paying for most of the recall costs involved. The problem came from the supplier of the bronze, these are people who sell bars of alloys... steel, titanium, brass, bronze... they sell metal bars, they are not a factory or involved in machining. We have a very close relationship with our factory and they are absolutely the best.
Suprising news but it's good to hear that it's being dealt with proactively
i've been looking longingly at various bronze watches recently and i've got to say this is an excellent response from the two companies involved, its nice to see someone standing behind their products...
My customer service experiences with Benarus have always been good. This would appear to be another case where they are to be commended.
Has it been tested allready? Otherwise Intresting to see the verdict on the magrette, I like mine so hope for it's bronze. Would be quite dissapointed otherwise, still good to see they make tests. We want what we paid for and good cs from helson and benarus.Agreed.
One wonders what other bronze watches might have been affected. Unsubstantiated claims from some people aside, I understand that Magrette are testing the metal used for their Regattare Bronze to confirm that it is what it should be.
**edit**
Fixed typo.
I'm not the least bit surprised to see how well they are both handling it. Two of the very best micro brands.
It's good to see the supply chain acting as it should to redeem the situation.
Mind you, given the potential toxicity a cautionary tale for others to observe.
Gray
Jesus. I hope the metal supplier gets a few bars shoved where the sun doesn't shine. Lying on the shipping forms is immoral and, as others have stated, potentially dangerous.
Well done to Helson and Benarus. I hope other manufacturers aren't affected.
Don't know. I can only say that I read a message saying that they (Magrette) will be testing their metal. Hopefully the results will be made known in due course.Has it been tested allready?Agreed.
One wonders what other bronze watches might have been affected. Unsubstantiated claims from some people aside, I understand that Magrette are testing the metal used for their Regattare Bronze to confirm that it is what it should be.
**edit**
Fixed typo.
**edit**
News page at http://magrette.com/news.php as of right now:
Regattare Bronze
We just learned that two of our colleague watch brands issued a recall for some of their watches after 3rd party tests showed that the alloy these watches were made of is not the CuSn8 that they ordered from their supplier.
Needless to say that we will have our Regattare Bronze tested as well to ensure we have been selling what we believe is a watch with a massive CuSn8 case. We have confirmation of our supplier that the alloy we ordered and received indeed is CuSn8, but we will have this double checked in a laboratory to make 100% sure. We will keep you updated on our facebook page / news page of our web site.
If it is necessary we will contact previous buyers by email as soon as we have more info. Rest assured we will do anything in our power to ensure that we get to the bottom of this.
I feel for Helson and Benarus, but one of the disadvantages of going with a boutique / small internet based vendor is that the QC has to be done my the component manufacturers, and sometimes that doesn't work out. Their response is the right one and is reassuring, but IMHO, the whole Bronze thing should be left with Anonimo. The micro brands often give very good customer service, but they have to, as they can't afford the QC infrastructure of the majors.
David
This is the reason the PRS-30 hasn't appeared yet, I've been very specific about which bronze I want (the same as Anonimo) and it's not easy to get in sensible (small) quantities.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
I've just come off the phone to a German customer who told me that someone suspected his watch wasn't bronze as claimed so he took it to be analyzed. Turned out to be brass.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
That certainly explains the colour difference but brass not bronze - good grief :shock:
Gray
What brand was that Eddie?
Cheers,
Adam.
Why on earth do the metal suppliers think they can get away with that? Or in the case of the brass model, was it the manufacturer being cheeky?
I'll find out.
What I will say though is that I got a little petulant (petualant, moi?) with Roland Kemmner over the delay with the PRS-30 and I said "How come every man and his dog is bringing out a bronze watch and I'm still waiting after 3 years?" He replied "Because they are not bronze Eddie".
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
:-)
Ouch, that is bad. I own the Magrette and to be honest, either it's real bronze or brass. The Brass-thing has been mention for some time and I can't tell the difference (since I haven't handled patinated bronze) but on sometimes it looks like the Panerai Bronzo but on some spots a lot more brass-like. Either way, I hope for quick news about it since Dion at Magrette has decided to test his watch aswell, which is a must imo consider the current status for Benarus/helson. And also a good solution.
Here are my Magrette, with a lot of patina that is:
Looking forward to your bronze Eddie :)
We have a lot of bronze, brass and copper in the house. Unless it's prematurely aged bronze, using a fasterising technique of some sort, that looks quite brassy to me
Gray
I'll find out.
What I will say though is that I got a little petulant (petualant, moi?) with Roland Kemmner over the delay with the PRS-30 and I said "How come every man and his dog is bringing out a bronze watch and I'm still waiting after 3 years?" He replied "Because they are not bronze Eddie".
Eddie
The truth is out there...
Gray
Bloody hell! What did you do to that to get so much patina so soon? Mine looks nothing like that.Ouch, that is bad. I own the Magrette and to be honest, either it's real bronze or brass. The Brass-thing has been mention for some time and I can't tell the difference (since I haven't handled patinated bronze) but on sometimes it looks like the Panerai Bronzo but on some spots a lot more brass-like. Either way, I hope for quick news about it since Dion at Magrette has decided to test his watch aswell, which is a must imo consider the current status for Benarus/helson. And also a good solution.
Here are my Magrette, with a lot of patina that is:
Looking forward to your bronze Eddie :)
I assume you are talking about your bronze watch :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Some put egg on their bronze watches...... :shock:
I like that Magrette, reminds me of an old penny.
Its amazing that small companies like them are issuing the recall. Panerai won't even admit their debacle with the 339.
Great customer service and integrity.
Yep, used the eggmethod which really got it different. However was quite patinated before but I like it now. Looks cool (but noneless want it to be bronze) :)I assume you are talking about your bronze watch :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Some put egg on their bronze watches...... :shock:
Well, I googled the "egg method" out of curiosity. Blimey.
http://www.timetechtalk.com/forum71/22360.html
Certainly gave that Benarus a pleasing patina, though.
And just in case anyone else is wondering what the real world difference is between bronze & brass...
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/in ... 123AAgifSm
So I just need to drill a hole in mine to see if it's brass or bronze?
I'm not too sure that I care to be honest, is that a bad thing?
Cheers,
Adam.
Cheers,
Adam.
I did the egg-method twice, left it for a couple of hours aswell the last time. I like the result but again, CuSn8 bronze is what I want since I paid for that so with some excitment I wait for the result from Magrette and hope for the best :!:
What watch have you got? Personally I'd like to know that I had what I had actually paid for.
I've got the Magrette.
I suppose it would be pretty daft having a brass watch with bronze written on the face.....
What I meant was it looks good no matter the metal.
Cheers,
Adam.
Good luck with that. There are quite a few techniques that aren't so .... eggy :-)I did the egg-method twice, left it for a couple of hours aswell the last time. I like the result but again, CuSn8 bronze is what I want since I paid for that so with some excitment I wait for the result from Magrette and hope for the best :!:
Gray
I probably keep the original one - will probably be worth more as everyone sends theirs back ;)
It's just a matter of time...
:mrgreen: allways thought I was gonna patinate it naturally but after the first time it looked so much cooler 8)Good luck with that. There are quite a few techniques that aren't so .... eggy :-)I did the egg-method twice, left it for a couple of hours aswell the last time. I like the result but again, CuSn8 bronze is what I want since I paid for that so with some excitment I wait for the result from Magrette and hope for the best :!:
That is proactive and good customer service from both.
Reactive - the issue was pointed out to them
Gray
According to the TTT thread referred to at the top of this thread, it was Magrette.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Interesting. I've just e-mailed Dion to request his comments on the alleged brass watch, as it's not mentioned on his website. I'll post here if he comes back to me.According to the TTT thread referred to at the top of this thread, it was Magrette.
Eddie
Dion has responded but just swerved the specifics of the alleged brass watch and referred me to the statement on the website. I doubt I'll pin him down so I will wait with baited breath for the next instalment.Interesting. I've just e-mailed Dion to request his comments on the alleged brass watch, as it's not mentioned on his website. I'll post here if he comes back to me.According to the TTT thread referred to at the top of this thread, it was Magrette.
Eddie
Does anyone actually know this German gentleman or is this just anecdotal?
More reading for anyone interested...
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f74/helson ... 44688.html
I don't what the chap at Magrette has to laugh about:
.
.
:
.
Magrette
Lol
:)
Gray
According to Dion it will 2 weeks until he gets the lab results back.
What does it matter that it's bronze or bronze alloy or brass? I think the patina on the 'bronze' Magrette has made me want one.
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