Reply With Quote30 years old then. Exactly the cut-off for vintage.
In my eyes anyway. :drunken:
In watch speak when does "a little bit old" become vintage?
I've just bought a watch from the 80s don't consider it vintage as such. Perhaps because 1981 doesn't seem that long ago and also because it was made long after I was born.
What do you consider "vintage"?
30 years old then. Exactly the cut-off for vintage.
In my eyes anyway. :drunken:
Love vintage watches, for me the age isn't the most important factor its having something a bit unique about the design, something that you don't really see today. I guess like a vintage wine could be 1 year old or 30 year old, it is something that was special about that particular version.
I suppose that argument falls down with the likes of rolex who make the same models today as 30/ 40 years ago, makes more sense for the likes of omega who change their designs more often....
Not sure i agree with the analogy of wine in relation to watches when discerning "vintage". Vintage wine is only released when the vintage is good which can & does vary year to year. I think that it would be fairer to compare it with the status of classic cars for example. Depending on the insurance company a car becomes eligible for classic insurance between 20-30 years. There are some cars/watches that are so timeless in their design that they become "instant classics", so a bit of interpretation open in regards to when classic becomes vintage but i think that the 20/30 yr guideline is a good starting point. It is well to remember also that just because it is old does not necessarily make it valuable or even desirable but i think most of us would agree that a certain amount of patina in a quality well looked after watch will only add to its charm.
Wine has a vintage and there are vintage cars, everything else is just 'second hand' it's just marketing hype.
I'd consider vintage to be a discontinued production model.
For example, the 1st generation Planet Oceans will be vintage once they are completely discontinued just like the 2254 and 2531 Seamasters.
Whoop whoop...Originally Posted by scarto
I've got a few from the early 80's are they about to skyrocket in Value? :wink:
My opinion as a vintage watch collector and seller:
30 years or older for any mechanical watch. For quartz watches: NEVER!
A watch usually becomes "Vintage" when it's advertised for sale.
Go to Ebay and put "Vintage watch" in the Search box, and you'll see what I mean!
Regards
Ian
Although no trees were harmed during the creation of this post, a large number of electrons were greatly inconvenienced.
:lol:
I know someone quite young who thinks that a non-touchscreen phone is already "old skool". A mass-produced watch that's just gone out of production in favour of one with an identical case, name, and overall look save a slightly glitzier bezel is in no way at all "vintage". I mean a 1940s Cartier is vintage.
I agree with this. The word is so abused esp. by the 2nd-hand market that you may as well invent meanings for any other words you like, and then wonder why nobody can communicate properly any more!Wine has a vintage and there are vintage cars, everything else is just 'second hand' is just marketing hype.
...but what do I know; I don't even like watches!
Personally I would say pre 1980
So 30yrs by some but I'd be interested in the definitive answer.
You might just be bang on there :D
Don't know about wine but I reckon cars have three distinct stages:
up to 20 years old is simply second hand
20-45 years old is Classic
over 45 years old would be Vintage.
The same could be applied to watches which would make all the big 60's and 70's Omegas etc Classic watches (and yes, that would definitely include Megaquartzes!), watches between 45 and 65 years old would be vintage, and over 65 years old would be antique.
That would make me a big Classic watch fan and I like the sound of that!
i tried typing vintage into wikipedia and it didnt really come up with much except for a reference for "antique" which is an object over 100years of age. so much for your 30 :)
This is a realm where extra caution is advised. I recently bought a 1963 Land Rover S2a and made the mistake of calling it the "Old Girl" and my "Antique".
Woe be to me when SWMBO remided me that she was "born" the same year.
:shock:
Hmmm, I wonder if it's as simple as a certain age. I mean a 30 year old digital watch would be vintage in my eyes, but considering say a Speedmaster, I would probably put the vintage marker down at pre 1970 or 40 years old.
So in this case, it's a relative and subjective term (to me anyway).
Vintage indicates high quality and a period when design and manufacture were at the most creative otherwise it is simply old.
In Chambers, vintage is "typical of someone's best work or most characteristic behaviour"
I woulden't say that about Quartz, maybe ordinary ones but not the HEQ's, For me anything older than me sort of counts which is 25 years at present, but I do think its more to do with quality and desirability than just age.
I think that a watch has become vintage when you cannot get any spare parts anymore ;-)
An antique is anything classed as over 100 years old.
Nothing to do with vintage though which is a pretty loose term.
Cheers,
Neil.
Anything that predates the Swatch / Richemont/ LVMH era for me.
It is funny that this topic has come up as I was was using some work 'down time' yesterday to look at Vintage watch listings on Ebay and I was wondering to myself when did Vintage started to be used for meaning 'a bit old and knackered'!
I'm guessing the 30 years is a good starting point, but I think the points made about design does make differences to the outlook of some pieces...
Cheers
Well, less subjective as relative to the technology and state of the art of this and that is a vast impovement of just year of production.
Age persé is a totally insufficient criterium.
Wether an artefact/piece of technology is ´vintage´ is relative to the current state of things.
In horology technology, fashion and wether/how long a model is out of production are far more relevant criteria.
Although seldom mentioned, technology milestones are clear cut factors as are fashion milestones. The two together are thé driving force behind model development = products becoming vintage or not.
One key turning point in hororlogy as a whole is the invention of the Swiss mechanical as a luxury product.
A turning point for vintage definition example for a particular brand is Stallone discovering Panerai. As well as the subsequent reïnvention of the brand, craeting two véry clearcut ´vinatge´ stages.
Grand Seiko provides several examples.
For Grand Seiko, the production pause is key, but the step to automated production is a very definite cut off milestone too.
In general ´vintage´ GS means pre-pause but is MUST be devided in pre- and automated production.
The restarted tc quartz range has clearcut technology steps with pre 9F being ´vintage´ in quartz GS although all are post pause.
The Biver & Hayek sceme brings back the new generation mechanicals which currently have no vintage stage as all is ´currenty generation´ even though some models haven been discontinued and followed by slightly other designs.
Spring Drive being anóther phase which also has it´s own ´vintage´ stage as that technology advanced.
In horology it would be highly arbitrary missing many critical defining factors to just take age as definition for ´vintage´.
I always did wonder why the 'vintage' watches were not classified instead as 'classic' and 'vintage' depending on age, as is the case with older cars.
Then, a 'vintage' watch could be something say pre-1970 and a 'classic' watch - from the 70's onwards, with a cut-off of say 1985? Obviously then each year the timespan of a 'classic' watch would increase, but a 'vintage' watch would always be pre-1970.
How does that sound then?? :) So, if we're all agreed on my new classification, let's roll it out across all watch forums and the watch world in general.
I'll let Eddie take the credit for this new innovation in horological nomenclature (for a small fee) - coz that's the sort of guy I am!! :)
I would say everything prior to the quartz-era. I consider the introduction of quartz watches THE turning point in watch history.
But I think that, when I read all the previous posts, it's fair to say that there is no exact definition, and there never will be. :P
Far too simplistic.
It totally ignores relative development.
Take a look at the most mounted current Rolex caliber family and model range.
A date would put the cuttoff in the middle of model continuations.
Models like the Rolex Chrograph or the Omega Speedy illustrate why ´vintage´must relate to their model history and not to a date.
Seiko as a brand is just as clear an illustration.
The invention of quartz tecnology as well as solid state electronics are crucial miletones in the model range history.
Just as the Biver & Hayek success in reïnventing the mechanical movent is. There are definite pre and post developments in the model range.
Another crucial phase which in the near future will be a water shed is the strategic decision to raise the perceived price ceiling of the brand. The advent of Spring Drive is a product of this strategic decision :idea:
´Vintage Seiko´ is entirely ruled by thóse milestones and not by a moving age date.
To be more precise still, the use of electronics marks the pre- and post modern horology.
Another technological stage however is pre- and post automated manufacturing.
As you observe ther are séveral definitions possible.
Whatever, however, just age is telling nothing extra what the production date does not tell.
If there would be a need for a generic definiton for ´vintage´ in horology, than imo ´pre current model range´ of a specific brand is the most relevant.
Nahh...I still like my one! :)
Far too simplistic.
It totally ignores relative development.
Take a look at the most mounted current Rolex caliber family and model range.
A date would put the cuttoff in the middle of model continuations.
Models like the Rolex Chrograph or the Omega Speedy illustrate why ´vintage´must relate to their model history and not to a date.
Seiko as a brand is just as clear an illustration.
The invention of quartz tecnology as well as solid state electronics are crucial miletones in the model range history.
Just as the Biver & Hayek success in reïnventing the mechanical movent is. There are definite pre and post developments in the model range.
Another crucial phase which in the near future will be a water shed is the strategic decision to raise the perceived price ceiling of the brand. The advent of Spring Drive is a product of this strategic decision :idea:
´Vintage Seiko´ is entirely ruled by thóse milestones and not by a moving age date.
Anything older than late 70s is vintage IMO. 80s onwards isn`t.
That's my definition and I have to admit there's absolutely no logic behind it whatsoever......it's just the way I see things.
Paul
As a devotee of 'classic cars' as well as watches, I understand the following definitions are made by the crusty old rivet counters to differentiate between the very distinct periods of car production.
I don't think watches are too far off these definitions too.
Veteran
Applies to cars constructed up to 31st December 1904. For the watches then you are almost but not quite talking solely about pocket watches.
Edwardian
Relates to cars built from 1905 until the end of the Great War in 1918, but not many were made after about 1915. Wristwatches are produced for the first time in great numbers in the Great War.
Vintage
Relates to cars made from the end of the Great War, effectively 1919, until the end of 1930 after which the VSCC considered cars declined in quality of construction. Well slightly different for wristwatches here, I believe sometime in the early 30's wristwatches outsold pocket watches for the first time, so again this is roughly the equivalent to this great time of change.
Post Vintage Thoroughbred
PVT cars are those made from 1931 to the end of 1940 provided they continued to meet certain quality standards eg. Rolls Royce, Sunbeam, Lagonda, Alvis and Talbot.
I think we can discard this slightly daft differentiation and move on to
Classic
This name is usually applied to quality post 1945 cars.
No annual road fund licence / car tax is payable in the UK on cars built before 1st January 1973. Coinciding with the beginning of the worst period of the 'Quartz Crisis' post '73.
So for me, early 70s is the cut off point for anything described as 'vintage' and really 'classic' is perhaps a better term until you get to stuff which is pre-war.
Perhaps something like 'Early Modern' should cover wristwatches which are perceived as future classics but not yet old enough to qualify (40 years ish).
In much the same way as perhaps a Jag XJS or Ferrari 328 from the early 80s is not quite yet a 'classic' but nonetheless on the cusp as it were. Take an Austin Allegro from the same period and nothing would ever move me to describe it as 'classic' even when they are 100 years old.....
Yes the official figure for the term is 100 years. For mechanical wristies it's 50 years. The electronic section has its own parameters.
john
Costume jewellery. Ouch!!!
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