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Thread: Is it time to lay the 'Vulcan' Seiko to rest?

  1. #51
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    After all, there are lots of other Seiko chronos of the same era with all the markings..
    11,307 of them to quote the official MOD figure.

  2. #52
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inspector gadget View Post
    Julian Hogg has another ....


    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seiko-Vulc...item418a4f74e1

    Wow 2 grand.....
    But is it another ?

    The 'new' listing (and photos) are identical to the previous - which now shows as having been re-listed.
    Who's to say that this isn't exactly the same 7A38-701B (s/n 394199) as last time - (other than the seller) ?
    Possibly the winning bidder didn't pay up - or Julian Hogg was reluctant to let it go for the £732 it was bid to ?

    Remember it was a private listing:



    So there's no evidence in Julian Hogg's feedback to show it actually sold last time.
    He might just be trying it on with this latest £2000 BIN. Call me cynical if you like.

  3. #53
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  4. #54
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    For 'Vulcan to the Sky' read 'Pie in the Sky'

    I'm sure that myth will continue to be re-listed many more times, given the ludicrous asking price.

  5. #55
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    I'd be amazed if one actually did make £700 on eBay at least 15 years ago. Not because I know anything at all about the watch but purely because eBay.com wasn't available to non us sellers 15+ years ago and eBay.co.UK only launched 15 years ago. It was generally just IT geeks selling their old tat back then. Most people didn't have a clue what eBay was.

  6. #56
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    I'd be amazed if one actually did make £700 on eBay at least 15 years ago. Not because I know anything at all about the watch but purely because eBay.com wasn't available to non us sellers 15+ years ago and eBay.co.UK only launched 15 years ago. It was generally just IT geeks selling their old tat back then. Most people didn't have a clue what eBay was.
    My profile shows

    Member since: 10 Aug, 1997
    That makes it 17 years by my reckoning.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowflow View Post
    I'd be amazed if one actually did make £700 on eBay at least 15 years ago. Not because I know anything at all about the watch but purely because eBay.com wasn't available to non us sellers 15+ years ago and eBay.co.UK only launched 15 years ago. It was generally just IT geeks selling their old tat back then. Most people didn't have a clue what eBay was.
    But then if you did know anything about the watch in question, then you'd know they have achieved 'silly' prices in the past.
    This mint example (shown for reasons best known to the seller with the bracelet detached) sold for £870 in 2007.




    But that was in the days before the 'Vulcan' myth was de-bunked. A few nice condition examples have made over £500 in recent years. So £700 isn't completely out of the question, then and now. But £2000 today ? Erm I don't think so.

  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    But that was in the days before the 'Vulcan' myth was de-bunked.
    I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me the real link with this model and the MOD, because I 100% know there is one. 7A38 expert? Anyone else?

    Cheers

    Foggy

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy View Post
    I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me the real link with this model and the MOD, because I 100% know there is one. 7A38 expert? Anyone else?

    Cheers

    Foggy
    Can I suggest you read the thread..?

  10. #60
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy View Post
    I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me the real link with this model and the MOD, because I 100% know there is one. 7A38 expert? Anyone else?

    Cheers

    Foggy
    I thought the boat thing sounded pretty good
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Gyp View Post
    Can I suggest you read the thread..?
    You can suggest whatever you like...........

    More helpful, of course, would be for you to point me to where it tells me the definitive link with the MOD and these watches. I know there is a link, but I want to know the actual facts, rather than possibilities & musings.

    Foggy

  12. #62
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    So far we've had someone saying that the Vulcan Seiko doesn't exist and that eBay didn't exist for UK users before 1999. One of these is definitely false, how about the other?

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  13. #63
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James K View Post
    I don't know who was supposed to get them or why but they were available I saw them at HMS Heron and HMS Daedalus. I'm convinced they were purchased by the MOD (how else could they be in stores?) but why is anyone's guess.

    Just a thought! but isn't the MOD/RN shore mounted nuclear reactor for trials and training called Vulcan?

    Just checked, HMS Vulcan in Scotland was the location of the trials reactor, still called Vulcan. It'd make a lot more sense for these watches to have been issued there than on the Vulcan aircraft. It would also explain why they appeared at RN stations.

    At the time these Seiko's were in production a new reactor was being installed for trials
    For the foggster
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  14. #64
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    I'm sure the MOD did buy them , there are too many contemporary witnesses to the fact, but my question is why didn't they put them through the system and have them marked on the caseback like the contemporary aircrew Seikos. Without the mil marks they are not true issued military watches. Are they ?

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by seikopath View Post
    For the foggster
    Thanks - seen that, and James and I go back a long time, so I have the utmost respect for his thoughts on the matter. Very plausible. However, I still want to see that bit of paper, the requisition, or something that shows the purchase, that's all. Probably never happen, but I can hope ;-)

    Cheers

    Foggy

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonM View Post
    Without the mil marks they are not true issued military watches. Are they ?
    Not in the strict sense, absolutely not. I'm not sure anyone has ever said they were issued though, Jase?

    I always referred to them as the fabled "Vulcan" Seiko in my articles, as it was fairly obvious they couldn't logically be anything to do with the aircraft of the same name. BUT, I still want to know who they were procured for, because they definitely were procured for some branch or another of the military;-) Navy makes sense as that is where the one I used to own came from.

    Cheers

    Foggy

  17. #67
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Semantics

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy View Post
    I'm not sure anyone has ever said they were issued though ....
    Plenty of eBay sellers have made both 'Vulcan' / 'issued' claims in the past.

    Julian Hogg picked the words his of his recent eBay listing carefully:

    This particular timepiece was a direct release from the MOD ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy View Post
    I always referred to them as the fabled "Vulcan" Seiko in my articles ....
    Fable:
    1. A usually short narrative making an edifying or cautionary point and often employing as characters animals that speak and act like humans.
    2. A story about legendary persons and exploits.
    3. A falsehood; a lie.

    Myth:
    1.
    a. A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
    b. Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.
    2. A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal: a star whose fame turned her into a myth; the pioneer myth of suburbia.
    3. A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.
    4. A fictitious story, person, or thing.

  18. #68
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy View Post
    7A38 expert?
    BTW Ian.

    I may be a pedant and my style of writing might not be to everyone's tastes ....
    But I don't think I've ever actually claimed to be a 7A38 expert (or any kind of).
    Indeed, 5 years ago when our paths first crossed on RLT, I was just a fan(boy).

    http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...dpost&p=447251

    My own blog page dated January 29, 2012 merely states:

    The rest as they say is history. I may not own the largest, nor even the most complete collection of Seiko branded 7A38’s; some of the watches in my collection certainly aren’t necessarily the best examples in collectors’ hands either, but I think I can safely lay claim to owning the most diverse collection of 7A38’s in the world.
    But I'm always open to learning more new facts. Even 5 years on.
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 13th December 2014 at 12:47. Reason: Re-wording a bit.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    BTW Ian.

    I may be a pedant and my style of writing might not be to everyone's tastes ....
    But I don't think I've ever claimed to be a 7A38 expert.

    I wasn't referring to you. I was asking if any 7A38 expert(s) knew. Interesting that you think I was.

    As for the fable and myth - not quite sure why you needed to post those definittions for me. The point I have always made is I don't believe the watch has ever been related to the Vulcan bomber. I have only ever written what others believed at the time and I personally labled it as fable - i.e. not something I believed. But what if James K is right about the other Vulcan (HMS), thus meaning it was correctly labled the Vulcan Seiko, and people had picked up on the wrong Vulcan? If he is, and he's probably the person I'd most trust in all of this to know the truth, then that would be a cool piece of info in the ongoing saga.

    Like I say, the truth is out there. I'd just like an expert to come forward with the evidence, whatever it may be.

    Regards

    Foggy

  20. #70
    Grand Master number2's Avatar
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    I wonder if we'll still be laying the myth to rest in another 5 years


  21. #71
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Many a true word ....

    Probably !
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 13th December 2014 at 13:49.

  22. #72
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Blue Sky thinking ?

    Thinking laterally, there is perhaps another route by which some of these watches may have ended up (unsold) in MOD stores - where others had subsequently found their way onto military bases and on to servicemen's wrists ....
    As personal purchases by military personnel from the NAAFI / AAFES.

    I bought a 7A38-728A on eBay a few years back, which came with a serviceman's number crudely engraved on the case-back (it was being sold by his ex-wife). Turns out he'd bought it from the NAAFI, while stationed in Belize.

    This morning I received an email from a retired US serviceman:

    I am the original owner of a Seiko 7A38 701A quartz chronograph that I purchased via the Army and Air Force Exchange Service (AAFES) catalog while deployed overseas in the Atlantic and Mediterranean in the spring/summer of 1985.

    As a Naval Flight Officer from 1977 to 2007, this watch is one of three Seiko chronographs I own, the others being a black dial 6138 0040 "Bullhead" chronograph that I purchased new while deployed to Asia in 1979 and 1980, and a 7T34 6A09 "Flightmaster" quartz chronograph that my wife purchased for me new at a Navy Exchange in the 1990s.
    The 7A38-701A he owns being the sister watch to the 7A38-701B 'Vulcan' and 7A38-7010, all three of which were normal civilian models that appeared in Seiko's 1983 retail catalogue.



    I can't find the reference at the moment, but I'm sure I remember Dave Swan writing somewhere that his 7A38-701B came from an eBay seller who lived near (or on) Johnson Air Force base (in the States). Could Dave's 'Vulcan' also have been a AAFES purchase ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveS View Post
    Any way, until some hard evidence emerges, it will remain a myth.

    Here's mine by the way.



    I must get that SEIKO logo straightened up one day. :)

    Kind regards
    Dave
    My question is - I'm not certain of how their internal logistics operate, but would MOD stores requisition / hold bulk inventory of watches for NAAFI ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navy,_A...rce_Institutes

    The servicemen would benefit directly by getting cash rebates and discounts on purchases and indirectly through surpluses given back as a whole from each year's trading.

    NAAFI is now operating out of bases in British Forces Germany and Northern Ireland. It is responsible, in Germany, for the supply of all functions in the catering, retail and leisure. This means the running of the Soldiers', NCOs' and Officers' Messes and Canteens, a selection of shops and supermarkets and outlets for the purchase of tax-free cars. The Stobart Group now have an extensive partnership with NAAFI delivering supplies from the UK to Germany.

    The NAAFI operate a contract that is in partnership with the British Army and the soldiers and civilians work together to provide many of the functions. This is a well mapped partnership owing to a gain share mechanism that sends money from NAAFI profits back into the welfare return for soldiers and their families.
    Last edited by Seiko7A38; 14th December 2014 at 14:03. Reason: Adding in the DaveS quote from the first page

  23. #73
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    I once had an Explorer dialled Air King 5500 which was available only in the NAAFI.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by James K View Post
    I don't know who was supposed to get them or why but they were available I saw them at HMS Heron and HMS Daedalus. I'm convinced they were purchased by the MOD (how else could they be in stores?) but why is anyone's guess.

    Just a thought! but isn't the MOD/RN shore mounted nuclear reactor for trials and training called Vulcan?

    Just checked, HMS Vulcan in Scotland was the location of the trials reactor, still called Vulcan. It'd make a lot more sense for these watches to have been issued there than on the Vulcan aircraft. It would also explain why they appeared at RN stations.

    At the time these Seiko's were in production a new reactor was being installed for trials
    I have no knowledge of these superb watches but have been following this thread for some time now.
    I really like this theory.

  25. #75
    Grand Master seikopath's Avatar
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    Its amazing how quickly things are lost to history. Near me there is a dome trainer on an old airfield, one of only six in the country. I am glad to say this has recently been restored and preserved by a trust specifically set up for this purpose and it now houses a museum. Until recently there was so much conflicting info and uncertainty as to exactly how these trainers were used in WW2 and their exact purposes.
    Good luck everybody. Have a good one.

  26. #76
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by swanbourne View Post
    I once had an Explorer dialled Air King 5500 which was available only in the NAAFI.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    My question is - I'm not certain of how their internal logistics operate, but would MOD stores requisition / hold bulk inventory of watches for NAAFI ?
    So can you shed any light on my alternative theory, Eddie ?

  27. #77
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    So can you shed any light on my alternative theory, Eddie ?
    I can't imagine why the MoD would get involved in the operation of the NAAFI other than allowing them to trade on their property.

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  28. #78
    Surely these watches were issued to Vulcans of the Star Trek variety?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_(Star_Trek)

  29. #79
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    Advice on repair to Seiko Vulcan

    I was hoping to obtain some advice.

    I have a Seiko Vulcan, bought 1988 but has spent most of the time in a drawer. I have recently had fitted varifocal glasses which means i can now see my watch face without the chew of removing my glasses etc. so i thought i'd get the vulcan out and give it a try. unfortunately the mechanism seems to have developed a fault. it works for a hour or so then sticks at one thirty am.

    any idea how much it would be to get it repaired and by who (local watchsmith, seiko dealer) or even if it is worth doing so?

    much obliged

    eric

  30. #80
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    Lets get it out of the drawer and see some lovely photos! ;)
    Regards getting it sorted give Duncan (Cannop) a pm.

  31. #81
    Grand Master PickleB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericmoleskin View Post
    I was hoping to obtain some advice...any idea how much it would be to get it repaired and by who (local watchsmith, seiko dealer) or even if it is worth doing so?

    much obliged

    eric
    See also Seiko servicing @ post #17.

  32. #82
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericmoleskin View Post
    unfortunately the mechanism seems to have developed a fault. it works for a hour or so then sticks at one thirty am.
    A 7A38 stopping at 1:30am is a good indication of it needing as service. The watch mechanism is having to work harder - against old sticky viscous oils in the jewels; it's drawing slightly more current at this time, as it's in the middle of turning over the day / date wheels. Try leaving it a warm place overnight - say the airing cupboard. That helps reduce the drag. If it makes it through to morning without losing time you'll have a confirmed diagnosis (but not a long term fix).

  33. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by ericmoleskin View Post
    any idea how much it would be to get it repaired and by who (local watchsmith, seiko dealer) or even if it is worth doing so?
    I don’t know if Seiko dealers undertake their own work or ship watches to Seiko UK, if the latter than you may find they no longer support that model.

    R
    Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by barryw View Post
    Lets get it out of the drawer and see some lovely photos! ;)
    Regards getting it sorted give Duncan (Cannop) a pm.
    +1

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mouse View Post
    +1
    many thanks to all.

    i shall attempt to take a photo as soon as the wife deems this necessary and of greater priority than segregating the recycling bin. how do i contact duncan cannop?

  36. #86
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    OK

    i think i can pm him from other posts.....back to recycling

  37. #87
    Ok, let's add more fuel to the fire. Just been advised by a friend about a black dial 7A38 owned by his friend, marked on the back with Broadarrow and RAF. Picture is direct from the friend, an ex RAF member who was given the watch whilst serving in the 1980's. I am trying to find out more details around the circumstances and will post when I find out, but the watch was marked when he was given it in service. Others were also given to fellow aircrew, so this was not a one off. Note also the manaufacture year - October 1983, the same as the yellow dial. To me, this just adds to my view that these were probably supplied by Seiko for evaluation purposes prior to the official MOD contracts for the Gen 1 issue watches.



    Full serial number is obscured in the pic as not my watch.

    Foggy

  38. #88
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Talking Here we go again

    Sorry, Ian. But to my eyes that looks like another of those p!ss poor military fakes that Bobsy on MWR turns up from time to time. The last couple had appalling engraving. This is minimalist by comparison, but that broadarrow is a bit narrow. LOL !

    Per the Seiko case-back stampings, the watch is a 7A38-7010 SAA001J (as shown on the left of the illustration in my post #72). It has a charcoal grey dial with black subs - not readily apparent in that illustration - and was a widely sold commercial model - particularly in Germany.

    The one belonging to your friend is a 'cobble together'. It's not fitted with the correct Seiko p/n Z1118S bracelet (as shown in those Seiko catalogue illustrations - that bracelet was common to all three 7A38-701x variants). Instead it's been fitted with a p/n B1075S off a 7A28-7040 / -7049.

    I'll go and check MWR, to see what's been posted over there. LOL !

  39. #89
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Cheers Foggy, that is interesting....

  40. #90
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Funny that your post should follow on immediately from Ian's, Jason. It reminded me of this little incident ....

    Not wishing to propagate the Vulcan myth, but almost 6 years on from the date of the RLT posts:


    http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...comment-447251

    First, let's get some facts straight. The first website you link to is not mine.

    Second, I have always referred to the "Vulcan" Seiko as fabled. I did not create the myth, merely reported the information known at the time.

    I seem to be getting a lot of blame across various fora for starting this story which is simply not the case. To this end, I intend to kill the article on Seiko's and the RAF on my website. It's also posted somewhere here on the forum, so I'd ask if a mod could kindly delete from here too.

    I'll leave finding the truth around these watches to the people who clearly know better.

    Thanks

    Foggy
    Famous last words - not.

  41. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    ....
    http://www.seiko7a38.com/apps/forums...faces-on-tz-uk

    I really shouldn't rise to your bait, Paul, but you really are obnoxious. You can come to whathever conclusions you wish to regarding the piece and provenance, but your insinuation that this watch does not belong to a friend of a friend really is uncalled for.

    Foggy

  42. #92
    Master dejjl's Avatar
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    Foggy

    I'd certainly be interested in more info if it's forthcoming, as I'm sure others would be.

  43. #93
    Administrator swanbourne's Avatar
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    Nobody has ever explained the "Seiko Vulcan" which Anchor Supplies received in a parcel of watches they received from the MoD. I viewed and handled this watch when I used to buy military watches from Anchor and made him a bid but he wouldn't sell it, he put it on eBay and it made around £700 in 1998 or thereabouts. It was wrapped in wax paper inside a brown cardboard box with a military stock code label on the box. I suppose he could have put it in any old box himself but why bother?

    Eddie
    Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".

  44. #94
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Funny that your post should follow on immediately from Ian's, Jason. It reminded me of this little incident ....

    Not wishing to propagate the Vulcan myth, but almost 6 years on from the date of the RLT posts:


    http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...comment-447251



    Famous last words - not.
    Only just seen this, you paranoid fool..... Why you think my comments had anything to do with you I have no idea.....
    Cheers..
    Jase

  45. #95
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    Not in the slightest bit paranoid, Jason. Just highly amused by your continued fawning.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seiko7A38 View Post
    Not in the slightest bit paranoid, Jason. Just highly amused by your continued fawning.
    Its called being nice to people, you should give it a go sometime....

  47. #97
    Master Seiko7A38's Avatar
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    I don't kiss ass, Jason. Least of all to alleged experts who insist on propagating a myth.
    I simply tell it like I see it. I prefer to deal in facts - not fables. Speaking of which ....

    I note that nearly 6 years after Foggy's 'Toys out of Pram' incident on RLT in May 2009:

    http://www.thewatchforum.co.uk/index...#comment-44725



    The Vulcan section of Foggy's website reads exactly the same as did back then:

    http://www.freewebs.com/foggy69/seikointheukforces.htm





    Still with the same inaccuracies, mis-information and incorrect assumptions.

    1) Plenty more examples have been seen, with serial numbers dating them from August 1983 through November 1983.
    2) From the Seiko catalogue illustration, the watch was clearly available as a commercial model, under sales code SAA005J.
    3) He's a bit out of touch with current prices !

  48. #98
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
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    Here's the thing, what you call ass kissing is for most people common courtesy, nothing to do with how much am expert anyone is, nothing to do with how accurate a website is or isn't, I have the greatest respect for Ian and his opinion based on many years of contributions over many fora, if you can't understand or see that it doesn't matter a bit all your post above then it's your loss, sure, you might know the part number of the screw that holds the widget of the Babcock flange of a 1983 7a38 but if you think that's what gets you respect then your very wrong, it's how you conduct yourself and treat other people and their opinion that gets respect. I'm guessing Ian has forgotten more that you will ever know.

    I would imagine it's too late for you to work this out.
    Cheers..
    Jase

  49. #99
    Master Thewatchbloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Oxfordshire UK
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    7,238
    Speaking of how you conduct yourself and treat other people it's time to air this again.

    http://www.thewatchsite.com/21-japan...eiko-7a38.html

  50. #100
    Grand Master JasonM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Cambridgeshire
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    16,144
    Thanks Duncan, I hadn't seen that before....
    Cheers..
    Jase

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