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Great watch and project.
This actually is a fine piece of "hommage" IMHO, and the movement is the icing on the cake.
BTW, how is that old cortebert movement running, if I may ask?
Cheers,
Daddel.
I actually tried to take everyone's comments onboard, especially regarding the Fake/Replica/Franken/Hommage debate, etc and have ended up with a completely sterile watch - the exception being the Cortebert/Rolex movement, which I thought was OK because Cortebert actually made the 618 for Rolex to go into the original 3436 watches. The one fitted is a 616 - identical to the 618 with the exception that the 616 is 15 jewels and the 618 is 17 jewels. This 616 is however the correct vintage, coming from an mid 30's pocket watch.
To balance this "minor cheat" I asked Stephan (VDB) to engave Made by VDB inside the case and to date it (so no confusion). The engraving on the back is again custom, making reference to the Kriegmarine and one of the original Kampfschimmer units. Finished off with a dedication to my son Max (in German).The crown is Brevet rather than Rolex, however I have been told this is an "acceptable replacement" on the original 3436 watches.
So without further ado :D - introducing my German/Swiss VDB, bespoke, vintage, totally unique, limited edition (one of one), Cali Dial Kamfschimmer Homage to the Rolex 3436. Hope you like it. I do and that's what really counts I suppose :lol:
First up is the VDB little antique leather travel case - nice
Now the watch - again the strap is handmade as is the "correct" blade buckle.
Next up the movement and case backs
A bit of brevet
And now the lume - which I would like to think is very similar to the original Radium Dial.
Final one - in repose :D
If you fancy something similar yourself, feel free to e-mail me and I can put you in contact with Stephan, who has now given up his day job to focus on building this rather beautiful watches - to your specifications. Costs range starts around 1400 euro (with a reworked Molinja movement ) and just keeps climbing depending upon your specification and the number of genuine parts used. This one came in around £2200 - which is around 30% the cost of an PAM249 (fitted with a Unitas movement). One with a gen Rolex crown and 618 would cost around the 8000 mark - so about the same as a PAM249!! :shock:
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Great watch and project.
This actually is a fine piece of "hommage" IMHO, and the movement is the icing on the cake.
BTW, how is that old cortebert movement running, if I may ask?
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
That looks an amazing piece of work Andy. I don't care what anyone says about the homage/fake/whatever debate - that is something special you've got there. It has certainly had a lot more care, attention time poured into its creation than any mass produced modern recreation, and considering the comparatively modest price, I think you've got amazing value for money there. Best of luck with it.
Cliff.
IMO andy its bloody lovely 8) 8) 8)
glad you did the project.
cheers
mike :wink:
Looks great, and must be a good feeling knowing that you own a genuinely unique watch built to order :thumbup:
Thanks Daddel - I try not to really think of it as a Hommage - more like a VDB - abit like Eddies PRS's :wink:Originally Posted by Daddelvirks
Sure. its running to within about 1 minute per day and has about 36 hours power reserve (early days yet). My 1950's molinja is actually keeping better time losing about 15 sec per day. So not as good as COSC, but then better than a couple of my other COSC watches :).
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Now as homages go, that is a truly unique piece .. I do like it, but I also like the original it homages .. congrats.
/vince ..
Comgrats on an excellent little project, looks good in the pics too.
Thanks Andy,Thanks Daddel - I try not to really think of it as a Hommage - more like a VDB - abit like Eddies PRS's :wink:
Sure. its running to within about 1 minute per day and has about 36 hours power reserve (early days yet). My 1950's molinja is actually keeping better time losing about 15 sec per day. So not as good as COSC, but then better than a couple of my other COSC watches :).
Andy
I was just curious, but precision is not the most important thing about this project I reckon :)
Cheers,
Daddel.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
It certainly does and I really enjoyed the time spent researching, investigating and helping with the design. This one is most certainly a keeper.
The only problem is that it is highly addictive (more so than the normal watches - which you just track down, validate (hopefully) and buy) - as a result I now spend hours surfing the internet, researching movements, watches, etc, for my "next project".
As it happens I have found what I believe (i am not sure yet!!) an Angelus SF240 8 day movement (as used in the Egizano and Pam 203). So the new project is already in its planning and procurement phase. I "think" my SF240 has an alarm and I might actually keep this funcion - so again it will be totally unique even in the world of Fakes/Homages. Can't wait :D
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
STUNNING!!! LOVE IT!!!
No not really - it would be nice to know how accurate Raydo's or Mikes originals 3436 are. I think with a some more wrist time and adjustment I can get it better - and if not just find another movement - perhaps a 618 :D :D - it really is a slippery slope.Thanks Andy,Thanks Daddel - I try not to really think of it as a Hommage - more like a VDB - abit like Eddies PRS's :wink:
Sure. its running to within about 1 minute per day and has about 36 hours power reserve (early days yet). My 1950's molinja is actually keeping better time losing about 15 sec per day. So not as good as COSC, but then better than a couple of my other COSC watches :).
Andy
I was just curious, but precision is not the most important thing about this project I reckon :)
Cheers,
Daddel.
Here is a picture of a real 618 against my 616 movement just for comparison.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Excellent, I for one would love to do something similar. You chaps have actually carried the idea through to a very sucessful conclusion. Congratulations on fulfilling the dream and a very nice watch.
much Kudos to you, and to the watchmaker Andy; that's a lovely piece and the icing on the cake is it is unique .. and you specced it.
What does the caseback have on it, any pics? I'm hoping something nice and sterlile 8)
Andy, apologies for the lack of knowledge on this, but from when does the original watch date? And by whom was it used? The Kampfschwimmer (German frogman unit) date from 1957, don't they? This one seems earlier - certainly based on the non-trivial task of sourcing a movement from the 30s. Great work, by the way. Looks incredible.
M
ETA - Sorry. Just seen the reference to the Kriegsmarine. I guess that dates it pretty well. So it's an homage to a WWII underwater commando unit watch. :unsure:
Hi, not sure about Sterile as it has:-
"KM" = Kriegmarine.
"Marine Einstazkommando" - The unit designation
The Saw Tooth Shark surrounded by a Reef Knot - Unit emblem
MAR-KO which was one of two original Commando groups formed in 1938
"fur Max 28th Marz" - a dedication to my son and his birthday.
Finally NM43 - is for 1943 - why - for so many reasons, but it really was the turning point of the war.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Well done.... it's something you can be proud of.
Congratulations on a great result to your project, it looks fab and being totally unique means big kudos 8)
Superb Andy 8) Very nice details :)
I imagine it is very satisfying wearing something that was made just for you :wink:
IMHO much better than a reproduction 249, definitely something to consider for the future.
M, I was wondering when the "N" word would be used :D . No its not a Homage to the Nazi's, its a homage to a watch produced by Rolex/Panerai for both the Italian and German Navy in 1936/38, so before the war. Perhaps the first specialised divers watch of its time.
The case references are for historical reference only - nothing more.
Although I have zero regard for the Nazi's and want they stood for, or the crimes they commited, the guys who wore these watch were very brave and were doing what they thought was right - by serving their country. Much in the same way our brave folks are doing in Iraq/Afghanistan. Also vast majority were professional navy types who had little time for the Nazi's. Mind you saying that Hilter have very little time for them - hence no proper German Aircraft Carriers during WW2.
No - this is not about polictics just watches, however lest we forget eh!!
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Lovely job, turned out really well 8)
"I looked with pity not untinged with scorn upon these trivial-minded passers-by"
Many thanks guys - especially for the support I got from a few of you (you know who you were :wink: )
Hopefully we shall be seeing a few more VDB's over time.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Many congratulations Andy, big kudos my friend! :D
As a very fortunate owner of an original Rolex-Panerai ref. 3646 California dial watch, I am in great admiration of the level of research and perseverance you put into completing this project. And boy! it has paid off... looks fantastic!
Owning an original or recreation Kampfschwimmer watch is in no way celebrating the Nazis... these watches are just very individual (-and unintentionally stylish!-) Second World War military issued watches.
I'd have no objections in wearing or owning this watch.
Great result!
8)
PS my two 3646 Panerais are both awful timekeepers, but of course they are both war veterans who endured some pretty rough treatment...
Sorry mate. Didn't mean to offend, just unsure about what this stands for - but now that you've shed some light on it... I can see it from a design point of view. It's just the Kriegsmarine reference that shocked me a little, I guess. Amazing job you had done tho - so kudos for that. Apologies for use of the "N" word. I'll keep quiet from now on!
M, I was wondering when the "N" word would be used :D . No its not a Homage to the Nazi's, its a homage to a watch produced by Rolex/Panerai for both the Italian and German Navy in 1936/38, so before the war. Perhaps the first specialised divers watch of its time.
The case references are for historical reference only - nothing more.
Although I have zero regard for the Nazi's and want they stood for, or the crimes they commited, the guys who wore these watch were very brave and were doing what they thought was right - by serving their country. Much in the same way our brave folks are doing in Iraq/Afghanistan. Also vast majority were professional navy types who had little time for the Nazi's. Mind you saying that Hilter have very little time for them - hence no proper German Aircraft Carriers during WW2.
No - this is not about polictics just watches, however lest we forget eh!!
Andy
M
I'll keep this short Andy - that is bloody brilliant mate !! WELL DONE SIR :P
One day i'll do something unique like that myself :)
I'm really glad that the finished article is pretty much exactly what i said i liked, there is none of that fake damage to the case, yes the dial and glass might be scuffed a little, but i hate seeing the homages with the dings and dents in the case as if it adds age.
The sterile dial and caseback are fantastic as well, i think it is 10/10 for me, and well and truly beats Panerai's half arsed attempt at a homage with the 249!
I'm in full agreement with Mike and others, guys like us love this style and look of watch, and the history, but we're never ever going to be as lucky as Mike in owning one, we just don't have the money and missed the boat when it came to getting these at a good price, the 249 is a travesty in my mind compared to the original, it's a good Panerai, but not really anything like the 3436.
Turned out very nice, Andy, and you were absolutely right to use the Cortebert movement. Personally I would prefer a sterile display back on the watch - I know it's not exactly period, but I'd want to look at that movement every time I picked the watch up :)
Beautiful work Andy, congratulations.
I've been looking into the Cali Dials for a while and reading about your project, your's really stands out as being very personal and unique 8)
I'm far from a movement queen, but originality and all that pish aside, I actually think your movement is better looking - I reckon you should get him to whack together a disply back to swap on and off for a change every now and then.Here is a picture of a real 618 against my 616 movement just for comparison.
Andy
Mike you have no idea how much this means to me. Many thanks
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Looks nicely executed Andy, and gives the desired effect.
Glad it turned out to your liking.
I’m sure you’ll wear this with a smile on your face. :)
PS, (tell Mike Wood to get his 3646’s serviced. They are fabulous time keepers.) :lol:
Best
Graham
Sorry mate. Didn't mean to offend, just unsure about what this stands for - but now that you've shed some light on it... I can see it from a design point of view. It's just the Kriegsmarine reference that shocked me a little, I guess. Amazing job you had done tho - so kudos for that. Apologies for use of the "N" word. I'll keep quiet from now on!
M, I was wondering when the "N" word would be used :D . No its not a Homage to the Nazi's, its a homage to a watch produced by Rolex/Panerai for both the Italian and German Navy in 1936/38, so before the war. Perhaps the first specialised divers watch of its time.
The case references are for historical reference only - nothing more.
Although I have zero regard for the Nazi's and want they stood for, or the crimes they commited, the guys who wore these watch were very brave and were doing what they thought was right - by serving their country. Much in the same way our brave folks are doing in Iraq/Afghanistan. Also vast majority were professional navy types who had little time for the Nazi's. Mind you saying that Hilter have very little time for them - hence no proper German Aircraft Carriers during WW2.
No - this is not about polictics just watches, however lest we forget eh!!
Andy
M
No need to apologize and no need to keep quiet. However I also was a bit worried how some people might see it hence was perhaps a little over sensitive.
Just glad you liked it :D
Peace and love, Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Congratulations on the results Andy.
Great research and a very special result.
May I ask a couple of Q's?
Did you source the movement yourself or did VDB provide it?
If price was not a consideration what would you have had built?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Well done and congratulations. I have to say I spent more than a bit of time looking over their watches after your original post about the watch! Yours looks superb 8)
Nice Andy, should have something similar inbound 8)
Thanks Toshi, I am saving that pleasure for when I get a SF240 Angelus movement for perhaps a small Egizano :D - not sure it will be sterile :wink:
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Very nice Andy. Congrats and wear it in health
Mark
My thoughts exactly and although I like the PRS, RWC and the Panerai - they are just a bit to new a shinny and have the wrong movement. If it had to be a Panerai it would have to be a PAM21 however at $150K dollars that will have to wait ............ a long time.
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Couldn't agree more...! :?I'm far from a movement queen, but originality and all that pish aside, I actually think your movement is better looking - I reckon you should get him to whack together a disply back to swap on and off for a change every now and then.Here is a picture of a real 618 against my 616 movement just for comparison.
Andy
And, err, that's the movement in my Cali-dial Kampfschwimmer... but it has been through the War, ya know..! :lol:
Couldn't agree more...! :?I'm far from a movement queen, but originality and all that pish aside, I actually think your movement is better looking - I reckon you should get him to whack together a disply back to swap on and off for a change every now and then.Here is a picture of a real 618 against my 616 movement just for comparison.
Andy
And, err, that's the movement in my Cali-dial Kampfschwimmer... but it has been through the War, ya know..! :lol::D Well - honesty is the best policy. Yours has the cooler story, Andy's is prettier - you can't have everything!! :lol:
It looks great Andy.
Fantastic work.
Chris
LOL thanks Graham!!
Looks like me and my Trittico missed a damn good party in Firenze :( at least the Maastricht Gathering was equally well supported :P
I'm not fastidious about the time-keeping of my watches... the engines are all clean and freshly oiled... wobbly balances I can live with!
MW
8)
Couldn't agree more...! :?I'm far from a movement queen, but originality and all that pish aside, I actually think your movement is better looking - I reckon you should get him to whack together a disply back to swap on and off for a change every now and then.Here is a picture of a real 618 against my 616 movement just for comparison.
Andy
And, err, that's the movement in my Cali-dial Kampfschwimmer... but it has been through the War, ya know..! :lol:
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
nice mate, cant believ how good a job they did, i've been trawling through their stock and its pretty damned amazing....inspired me to put the 6154 small e on a dceent starp and get it worn :)
did you get the email i sent you btw ?
That's a superb looking watch, congratulations. I'm working on a similar project myself from parts I got off ebay, but nowhere near as detailed or finished as yours.
Both a very nice project and a great watch at the end of it. Well done.
Incidentally, does anyone know the background to the Cali dial? If you think about it, it's quite odd to mix Roman and Arabic numbers in this "top half bottom half" way. So I'm sure there must have been a specific reason for it, I just don't know what that reason is.
Thanks you. In answer to your question I do not really know - however I was told it was first introduced by a watch marker in California who refurbished old Rolex dials.
Rolex seems to have started using these dials around the back end of the 30's and stopped using them around the mid 40's - so very much a War time thing. The Italian version of the 3436 designed around 1936 used the "standard Panerai" dial and perhaps the German Navy fancied something a bit different :D
I cannot remember every seeing this dial on any other non Rolex watch prior to the 1938.
Happy to be corrected :)
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
Very nice acquisition Andy.
I am a fan of Panerai watches and I have always tend to lean towards the original argument in any homage vs fake debate but I must say your latest baby has made me reconsider my position! Can the strap be removed or is it sewn in?
Fantastic looker!
Chye
Don't think you can generalise about the dials Andy, I've seen as many (probably more) German used watches with the "Standard Panerai" dial. I always presumed the Cali dial pre-dated the sandwitch dial due to the construction?
http://www.paneraiforum.de/wbb2/thread. ... eadid=4797
http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf
Hi, i have seen a few of these watches before and always assumed they were "borrowed" from the Italians and re-issued to the German Navy towards the end of the war as most are 1944/45. I have also heard that some were repaired using whatever Panerai could find at the time hence Italian Panerai dials found there way into German watches.Don't think you can generalise about the dials Andy, I've seen as many (probably more) German used watches with the "Standard Panerai" dial. I always presumed the Cali dial pre-dated the sandwitch dial due to the construction?
http://www.paneraiforum.de/wbb2/thread. ... eadid=4797
http://www.knirim.de/xpane.pdf
I have also seen the one with the Rolex crown on it (VBD has made one :) , but was told that the original had this added later as the original 3436 left the Rolex factory with a plain service dial - which looks nothing like the Cali or Panerai dial and the person did not believe Panerai would have added it.
You may well be right that the cali dial pre-dated the sandwich dial. One thing is certain is that there are at least 3 dial variations, 4 if you include the one with the Rolex crown - the 3 identified above and the 3436's marked Marine Militare.
So a bit like the 9+ different versions of the 5513 dial then :twisted: Its a real shame that Rolex never publishes anything on this - would save all this guess work :D
Andy
Whoever does not know how to hit the nail on the head should be asked not to hit it at all.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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