Reply With QuoteA Montres Allison with a pretty face is still just a Montres Allison and it still SUCKS!
A Montres Allison with a pretty face is still just a Montres Allison and it still SUCKS!
This man is like a Jehovah's Witness. (No disrespect to JWs). Give up mate. You stuff is crap and your attitude stinks.Originally Posted by Rothman
john
THIN is the new BLACK
Ok, I best come clean. The reason I'm selling a few of my watches is so I can specialize in Montres Allison pieces - I've at last seen the light :shock: :shock: :wink:
Cheers
Foggy
"There will now be a partly idiotical bombast on behalf of the Montres Allison party. . ." :pukeright:
Steve.
... and I have seen the dark side. :lol: :lol:
From another one who will never wear an MA. 8)
If Rothman insists on being "One note Johnny" and post only about MA watches, he could find he can't post at all. I've allowed him a lot of slack to make his point but it's time to change the record now.
Eddie
Whole chunks of my life come under the heading "it seemed like a good idea at the time".
Reminds me of that summer where Bryan Adams was in the charts for 15 weeks. Now that was a broken record and the summer from hell!!! :D :D :shock: :shock:
Love that RGM.
There are some songs I can't stand: Bryan Adams-Everything I do..., Whitney Houston-I will always..., Celine Dion-The Titanic and this guys' song about MA :lol:
to promote his wares, then let him send a few samples to some of the esteemed members of this forum for review. Surely the quality of his products will speak for themselves, without the need of Terry trying defend the indefensible.
What about "Chirpy cheep cheep" by Middle of the Road, or "I'm only a poor little Sparrow" by the St Winifred School choir, or "Grandad" by Clive Dunn, or "Save your love" by Rene and Renatta, or "My Dingaling" by Chuck Berry, or anything by The Baron Knights.
Shall I go on?
Martin :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
How about Clint Eastwood and "Stop That Train"? :D :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :lol:
?Montres Allison? are of course crap and complete rip of. Last year I saw some very funny pics from MA and their ?manufacture? showing the truth of the ?watch making? company, but unfortunately I can?t find them anymore.
But I found a review comparing a Franck Muller fake with the nearly identical ?Montres Allison? watch. It shows clearly, that the MA is a very cheap watch made in Asia. :evil3:
"Allison Gets Naked"
http://www.timezone.com/library/extr...66575540468750
A Franck Muller fake and a "Montres Allison" high grade :roll: watch:
An other interesting aspect is, that there are reviews on MA watches at some watch related websites. Every review I?ve read is an embarrassing base flattery and I?m sure that all these so called ?reviews? are as faked as the whole thing! :pukeleft:
Producing and selling cheap watches of a low technical standard is the one thing, but selling them as a high grade item is immoral to the customers and an insult to the real manufacturers of really good watches. :evil: Here at TZ-UK it?s especially insulting Eddie as a man who sells very good watches for a very fair price.
If Eddie would have the morals of the MA owners, he would buy masses of cheap Chinese dive watches calling them ?Dreadnought? and sell them on eBay with the hint to an official price of 2.999 GBP and to the great manufacture in Swissbourne.
Reading all that junk about MA I would like to laugh about it, but cheating people isn?t really funny. Unfortunately we can?t prevent non informed people from buying MA watches, but please, :director: ?Rothman? do not molest us anymore.
Best regards, Hal
That's obviously a fake Montres Allison. The real version of that movement can be seen at this link: http://watchea.hypermart.net/watches/posts/957.html
I know that TA used to run a watch forum, and that there is so much fighting in between forums, but I can't figure out why you guys can spread lies so easily. It just blows my mind. I'm showing you links to videos and pictures and even things on the regular tz, but you won't acknowledge them. It doesn't make sense - unless you have an ulterior motive.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:That's obviously a fake Montres Allison
It makes perfect sense I am afraid.I'm showing you links to videos and pictures and even things on the regular tz, but you won't acknowledge them. It doesn't make sense
Please go away.
So you have finally discovered that we're a bunch of bad informed good-for-nothing barberians.... no knowledge of the watchindustry or skills to recognise quality or rubbish when it coms to watches....
Maybe in your infinite wisdom you might recognise the moment to stop trying to convert people to your views.....
History shows that barbarians have a nasty way with dealing with pretenders trying to convert them....
:whax:
BTW our ulterior motive.......
( you haven't guessed that yet haven't you...)
we don't like crap being sold has 'high quality watches' it 's just swindling people...... but don't feel personally offended...... there are more brands like MA who try to do the same....... they don't get much applause here either.....
I've just been looking at the pictures of the so called Montres Allison set up in Colorado. As far as I can see it is just a series of pictures of a raggedy arsed collection of old lathes and tools set up in a warehouse or someones house. The operators look like a bunch of jokers and there are about a dozen identical pictures of a nondescript movement. I see there is a hammer in one picture and a knackered kitchen knife in another! Does anybopdy seriously believe that anything original is manufactured in this environment. Nobody who has ever seen inside a proper watchmaking factory or watched genuine watchmakers assembling proper watches could possibly be taken in by this bollocks. If you want to see how real watches are made you can borrow my video on the design and manufacture of the IWC Grande complication. The contrast between the environment in the IWC factory and the ramshackle junk yard in the Montres Allison pictures has to be seen to be believed as does the contrast between the bums in the Montres Allison pictures and the highly skilled watchmakers at Schaffhausen (where IWC watches are made).
Martin :pottytrain5: :pottytrain5:
Sorry guys but can't help it:
Mr. Christiaan van der Klaauw claims he is using modified ETAs for his watches. :shock: One can't be more honest that this. 8)
Here is another crappy movement:
and another:
Those last two look familiar :D :wink:
Ming
facilities from other independents or somewhat indepents:
http://www.time4watches.com//Watch%20Ar ... %20RGM.htm
http://www.jochenbenzinger.de/
http://www.vincent-calabrese.ch/atelier.htm
http://www.gerber-uhren.ch/htm_e/werkst ... kstatt.htm
http://www.tp178.com/ct/RogerSmith/
http://www.uhren-atelier.ch/e/aktuell/index.html
http://www.matthias-naeschke.de/
All in all, these workshops look very similar to the Montres Allison.
Shouldn't this Rothman guy be posting in the 'For Sale' forum?
Good grief. Enough already. :banghead:
All watchmakers above are reputate members of the A.H.C.I. (Académie Horlogère des Créateurs Indépendants) and all their watches are made from highest grade Swiss parts and in some cases they have unique in-house movements.
I can always buy a Jean Marcel with a Vincent Calabresse jumping hour movement for 2000USD and still it will be cheaper with 500$ than a certain tonneau with a Chinese gilded movement.
We are supid people here, don't bother with us. Please.
Ming, yes I'm a shameless thief. :lol:
Hey Rothman, send me a couple of Terry's finest. I'll review them, take a shed load of photos and give a fairly unbiased opinion. I'm the Doxa nut guy but I think I'm pretty fair in the reviews I have already written in the past .
http://www.doxa300t.com
http://www.prs2dreadnought.com
I'll compare them to my Dreadnought, Doxas, Breitling and Rolex and a couple of fakes I have and I also think the guys here would put at least a bit of store in what I had to say.
I have no axe to grind and wouldn't know Terry from a hole in the wall.
Let me know.
Cheers
Pete
Not all of the websites I showed are from AHCI members... Benzinger and RGM for instance are not.
And as far as AHCI members only using high quality Swiss movements, have you ever heard of AHCI member Kiu Tai Yu (Hong Kong) or how about candidate Steven Phillips (USA).
Here is Kiu Tai Yu's website: http://www.ahci.ch/mitglieder.asp?sprac ... e=KiuTaiYu
Steven Phillips passed away at a relatively young age recently, so his website http://www.budapestwatchco.com/ is no longer up and running.
And what about the AHCI members from all of the other countries? Please get your facts straight.
Ronald Murphy and Steven Phillips are AHCI members, according to WW magasine 2003. I'm sorry for Mr. Steven Phillips, I checked the website you are mentioning and it is not working indeed. But take a look at his watches. A true heritage. It is no justice for them to be mentioned in this thread. I have nothing against non-Swiss movements btw, but when you are trying to sell something that costs less than 15 bucks with 2500, well, do it somewhere else. Not here. :cya:
BTW, you can try also at RLT. :lol: Maybe I'll see you there too. :lol:
He has no guts, Pete. :lol:
Rothman says these watches are fabulous. Some here say not. He shows pictures purporting to be of the watches and of the machines that make them. What the pictures represent and their significance gets questioned. Nothing gets decided.
Okay. Here is a test. Rotham flys someone we pick out to the factory. I say Eddie (he can take Sandra ). That person gets to document a watch being made, taking pictures, making notes and the whole bit. (Keeping the watch in sight the whole time, or securing it otherwise.) We then get to pick a random sample of 5 watches (not ones of their choosing) in the entire world that are MA. MA authenticates them as MA, without their leaving our agent's sight. We send those watches to a watchmaker of our choice for a report.
There, that would help settle the issue.
The internet isn't very good medium for settling these sorts of issues. It deals only in representations, in language and in pictures, that can easily be manipulated. Remember, we are talking about a medium where old, ugly guys can pass themselves off as young women. And, ultimately, that is the question here. Are we talking about a young, nubile watch, or an old nasty geezer trying to pass itself off as one?
Best wishes,
Bob
I payed 50CAD for this and they are selling BS. I must be mad if I don't ask for a refund.
I volunteer. Eddie is of too much horological significance and value to the rest of you guys, it wouldn't be worth jeapordizing his position and reputation :D
Ming
This string of posts intrigued me, so I looked up Montres Allison on a search engine. I came up with the site I mentioned earlier and a so called Montres Allison Watch forum! This is so obviously an in house set up! The comments are meaningless sycophantic purple prose full of drivel singing the praises of Montres Allison watcheswith no critical content whatsoever. There are no mentions of specific features or characteristics of the watch, just OTT adjective after drooling adjective! I also found a comparison between an Omega Diver and a Montres Allison saying how much better value the Allison was! Doesn't this chap who is constantly singing the praises of Montres Allison realize that a genuine watch forum is us used by folk who actually know something about watches and can discriminate between fact and fiction, detailed description and bullshit, and whether or not a product has the provenance it says it does?!
Martin
I wish I could do that. That would settle this situation once and for all. Unfortunately I am not with the company. But they do have an invite for anybody to go visit them on their website with a map.
And here is a link to the AHCI website that shows the members and candidates: http://www.ahci.ch/mitglieder.asp?sprac ... der&seite=
You'll notice that RGM is not listed - even though they do some very nice work indeed. And Steven Philipps was a great man, but he died while still in candidate status.
And you guys will recall the information that I posted before including links to well known WIS Ross (former TZ moderator), Slugo (Mike Ferber), and Baron Harkonnen (Mike Strickland) in which they have Montres Allisons and they compared them favorably to Omegas, etc. If you need me to post a link to that thread on this forum, I will.
The only thing we need is that you stop posting about the MA crap. :evil: :twisted: :evil:
Well, since you won't go along with an empirical examination, more words and photos are useless. Taking some inadequate evidence, and adding lots more inadequate evidence does not increase the quality of the evidence. Add garbage to garbage and you don't get a lovely garden, you get a landfill. Also, think of all the electrons you are wasting. And God knows, we don't have that many spare electrons about for them to be wasted in this way. So, please, go.
Best wishes,
Bob
PS: I think that we need an emoticon for "yet another silly MA posting". We could cut down on all of this electron wasting that way. No words in reply to one of the silly posts, but just the emoticon.
I propose :spam2: .
Don't stop it. I like it. It's idiots like Mr Rothman that make us look good. :twisted: :D
john
THIN is the new BLACK
When I effectively contradict you, it doesn't matter what the subject is, I am the idiot.
You guys were wrong about MA.
You were wrong about AHCI members, candidates, and non-members.
And you were wrong about the conditions in which quality timepieces can be made. And I've proven it with outside, third party information.
And all you can do is call me an idiot... The few of you that are trying to argue with me and cannot simply get facts straight including about the AHCI are proving to all of the others who are reading this that you are simply being mean spirited and attempting to argue for the sake of arguing when you obviously don't know what you're talking about. To act like you're some incredible expert about watches while defaming MA, and then in the same thread to show that you're not by stating inaccurate information about others in the industry, clearly shows that I am not the idiot. Everything I've said has been factual, and what you guys are doing is trying to contradict everything I say on every subject I talk about. And then I keep proving you wrong.
Its obvious that you guys do have knowledge about the industry that most people don't have, but please respect that I have as much and more knowledge in many cases. Don't contradict everything I say just to try to make me look bad. That's not fair, and I'll call you on it and prove you wrong again and again just as I have been doing already.
Best wishes.
Rothman
... in doubt if I feel moreor :pukeright: .
:spam2:
:shock: :roll: :lol: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I called you an idiot because you don't seem to understand that we are not interested in what you have to say, you are in the wrong place and the only reason I take up your time is to keep you busy with me and not harassing any other poor soul with your crap watches.
Stupido. Go figure.
john
THIN is the new BLACK
I don't mean to offend, but how can YOU call me an idiot and "stupido?" You're lashing out by name calling when I have proven that I have a good deal of knowledge on this subject (including AHCI). It doesn't do anybody any good for you to act that way toward me.
And they aren't my watches, and I doubt if you guys are interested in them and I'm not posting any for sale. In fact, I bet you can't find a single one of them listed on any of the trading boards, and I am checking the sales boards daily due to being a collector. It just sucks that people like you slam them when you obviously don't know what you're talking about regarding MA and then even show more ignorance when talking about other companies or the AHCI members. And then you call me an idiot and stupido.
Brilliant. Figured it out by yourself or did you consult your mum?
john
THIN is the new BLACK
All you can do is act like I'm an idiot and make "smart" remarks. Michael Friedberg (of tz) said in an interview in WatchTime magazine that some people in watch forums say things that would normally get them punched in the nose if they acted that way in a face to face situation... I think I'm experiencing an example of this right now. You made inaccurate comments. I have not. No need to call me names.
I was wrong about Roland Murphy but I'm not sure about Steven Phillips. Someone is, obviously, and it is either you or the WW Annual. In any case AHCI and MA have nothing in common. You keep trying to convince us that MA watches are good value, comparing to others. We keep saying they are not. Why?
1. Nice dial and case finish
retail: 1500USD / gray market: 1100USD
Ok, this is for the people who can't afford an RGM.
2. Movement complication
retail: 1800USD / gray market: impossible to find (just like MA)
3. Exposed balance
retail: 750USD / gray market: 400USD
This is for the people who like an exposed balance but don't want their watches to look like a blatant copy of a tourbillon.
4. Movement finish
retail: 1700USD / gray market: 900USD
Because it is nice.
Why should I pay 2500USD for an MA? I have no reason and I will not. If it makes you day then go ahead and you buy it, nobody stops you.
Some personal opinions:
If someone does what this guy does: http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... de7760c36a it sucks
If someone takes a 200USD Technomarine then is coating it with diamonds and asks for 3000USD it sucks
If someone takes a Poljot movement, puts it in a Frank Mueller watch and asks for 9000USD it sucks
If someone takes a Chinese movement, puts it in a MA case and asks for 2500USD guess what it sucks
we may agree on a few things after all. The Davalos guy put a picture of him standing in front of an AHCI booth at a fair on his website and then used vague language text to cause others to infer that he was a member. I agree that he was out of line.
If somebody wants to put a ton of diamonds on a Technomarine and sell it for a bundle to a willing customer, then that is fine.
I'd bet that Elizabeth's article was written well in advance with thinking that he would have been included prior to the publication of that article in the Wristwatch Annual. And nobody meant to mislead in that, but they kind of jumped the gun. Steven surely would have been included had he not passed away so unexpectedly. My information about Steven was provided with a link to the members page of the AHCI on which you can see that he is still listed only as a candidate and not a member. The AHCI website is correct regarding their members and candidates. The mistake was on Elizabeth's side in probably jumping the gun or on Steven's side in jumping the gun.
And if somebody wants an open aperture like on that EPOS they can also pay Frederique Constant or MA a great deal more money for basically the same look.
We all know that most luxury watches are very overpriced, and the same can be said for Louis Vuitton scarves and handbags, etc. or Prada, and the list goes on. Some people prefer to pay higher prices simply because something costs more and they feel better about themselves being able to spend higher dollar amounts than others. That's entirely okay, and that's the way luxury products work.
And now MA.... Again... on their website in multiple places they state that they use components from Europe, Asia, and USA. So they are probably disclosing more than many companies.
And then you talk about their watches with open escapements being blatant attempts to look like tourbillons? They never claim anywhere that those are tourbillons but tell you exactly what they really are.
And of course they DO offer real tourbillons for sale and advertise them as such. Ming in another thread even confirmed that a picture I posted of an MA tourbillon was indeed a real tourbillon.
They (MA) don't say that their watches are swiss made... And let's talk about the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industries standards for using that trademark for a moment... If 50% of the value of the components are manufactured in Switzerland and it is assembled in Switzerland, then it can be called Swiss made. That means that the lowest quality of Asian movement could sent to Switzerland, then a decorative plate could be put on it that costs more than the entire movement, then it could be assembled by a Swiss laborer and it could be called Swiss Made. Go to http://www.fhs.ch to see what I mean.
Vartan Sirmakes (of Franck Muller Watchland) was of course caught purchasing the many Poljot movements with no marking of country of origin on them with speculation that they were to be used in FMs. And this was apparently okay if they got them cheap enough and used even only one component made in Switzerland that had at least 50% of the value of the entire movement as long as Watchland employees assembled the watches. It became a little stickier, though, when it was found that they were employing illegal alien Armenians at Watchland to perform this work, but they were in Switzlerland and were working to assemble the watches and that is why we won't hear anything more on this subject through the press.
And then let's talk about the companies selling watches that are "made in Germany" but really they aren't and we all know it. That is wrong. They should not do that. And MA doesn't and has never done that or anything like it.
Kiu Tai Yu sells Chinese made movements for a whole lot more than $2500.00.
is that you fail to see one very essential thing here Rothman....
whether MA makes the best watches of the world or not is not important to the forummers here..... we are not interested
You have not had one positive comment on any MA-related post here, there is no one to convert here..... no souls to be gained for MA....
You're not going to gain anything here, neither respect nor applause or admiration for MA.... in fact just the opposite.... every posting you make about MA just looks as another blatant marketing effort.
Now if you have any valuable contribution to make about something else than MA you might be taken serious, if not ...... just let us be happy with our opinions as you can be with yours.....
Just leave us alone here and go back to your world and collect as many MA's as you want...
Jeroen
Rothman, I understand from your previous posts that you claim to have no connection with Montre Allison. Can you explain your motivation in promoting, with no success whatsoever, these pieces of junk?
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