Reply With QuoteTime, as it were, doesn't stand still, so adding a date to the 14 would be cool, the movement has the facility anyway. And sapphire.
It seems that Eddie has run out of PRS-14´s. What have you to say on the matter?!
Time, as it were, doesn't stand still, so adding a date to the 14 would be cool, the movement has the facility anyway. And sapphire.
Adding a date would be cool, I'd be tempted to grab one to go with my current PRS-14, especially if it added a sapphire crystal (would make it different enough from the current model).
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
and a bigger crown please. There are a couple of other small features I would like to see but domed sapphire, date and a bigger crown would be more then enough.Originally Posted by Dave E
Sapphire please but I like the small crown and find it just as easy to operate as the others, it stays well out of the way and keeps the 14 from looking too "chunky". Let us also please keep the bezel exactly the same as it is perfect as is.
I would love a high-dome sapphire crystal, but prefer no date for a more balanced dial. A slightly larger crown would be fine.
Perhaps, because of the difficulty in getting ETA movements, this version could be built with a Seiko movement, say a 6R15, that is hand-windable and hacks. However, I don't know if Seiko will provide these to other makers, or whether Eddie would go in this direction.
I like the PRS-14 as is, but a date is always nice. I think the date needs to be very "stealthy": not at 3--maybe above the 6 or at 4. The date wheel would need to be black w/ white numbers. The dial is fantastic on the current watch. A bracelet option would be nice too.
I voted for a new one! As, although I do like the current version, I flipped mine as I wanted it on a bracelet. So I'd go for that as an addition together with a slightly larger crown. The rest is fine as is, the acrylic just adds to the vintage feel & no date is ok, unless a stealthy date could be added ..
/vince ..
I'd definitely go for a PRS-14 if it had a date and sapphire. In particular, no date rules out both this watch and the PRS-18 for me.
Martin
The only thing I would change is the crown. It's too small for my hands and much less easy to operate than the crowns of other watches. It doesn't need to be remarkably bigger - 1 or 2mm is enough.
Yes please with additions:
1) A/R sapphire crystal
2) Date function
3) Brushed steel bracelet
4) Larger crown
Cheers
David
quite pleased he's run out of them as i got one of the last two or three.
if it ain't broke, don't fix it. it cannot be improved in looks, IMHO, but if there were a new version then a sapphire crystal would be an improvement perhaps.
I'd very much like a new PRS-14 the same as before but with the following changes:
1.)Completely redesign the current PRS-14 crystal to a heavy internal coarsely threaded steel retaining ring secured screw-down flanged "stepped" crystal design (like the original 1960s Omega Seamaster 300* that the PRS-14 homages) which would allow the easy option at customer's choice of either a sapphire crystal in combination with a thick high coefficient of thermal expansion(CTE) metal temperature compensating washer(to counteract the specific temperature expansion ratio differential between the sapphire crystal and the stainless steel case) ---OR--- a resilient and shatter resistant acrylic/plexiglass/hesalite crystal(or else a newer and even tougher polycarbonate one) in combination with a very low CTE metal temperature compensating washer(to counteract the specific temperature expansion ratio differential between the acrylic, etc., or polycarbonate crystal and the stainless steel case [the CTE factors of sapphire glass and the acrylic, etc., polycarbonate synthetic materials are very different and very much need to be compensated with TC washers made of metals having very different CTE factors so that the tightness of the seal the respective crystal has with the same stainless steel case remains as constant as possible over the radical temperature extremes of use]).
I think other aspects of CTE temperature compensation engineers adept with it address in this type of crystal design are issues like the lateral tolerances left on the non-sealng/non-bearing interfaces of the respective crystal so that at the absolute radical extremes of temperature to which a watch might be subjected, say +200 degrees F to -200 degrees F (I believe these are the approximate temperature extremes to which the Speedmaster Professionals NASA uses for extravehicular activity in the vacuum of space are subject), the dynamically interacting stainless steel case and respective crystal do not bind upon one another inducing stress in these interrelating parts which might compromise their material integrity.
I'm sure the best of engineers would also address other CTE related issues as well such as determining the optimum approximate temperature at which the respective crystal should be tighted down into its seat and seal with the case.
Because many watch buyers want the scratch resistance of modern, brittle, and completely non-resilient sapphire glass crystals, and ignore the shortcomings I for one perceive in them, and at the same time others like myself may very much prefer the perceived advantages of acrylic/etc. for crystals, and ignore the scratches or use polywatch on them, the easy interchangeability between the two types that is only possible with the above screw-down crystal design is a way all purchasers could be satisfied as to their crystal preferences without having to swallow the kind they don't like.
Besides that benefit, and more importantly I think, the heavy coarsely threaded steel retaining ring secured screw-down "stepped" crystal design, of iether the internal type(i.e. early Omega SM300; JLC/IWC Mark XI) or the external type(i.e. PRS-50; Seiko Marinemaster 300 and vintage 6105, 6309, etc., divers; 1970s Benrus Type 1; etc.), in combination with a thick temperature compensating washer of a metal having a CTE custom correlated to the specific crystal material used interceding between the bearing face of the heavy threaded crystal retaining ring and the flange face of the "stepped" crystal's rim is in itself in my opinion and to the current state of my own knowledge of watches the very best practical means of securing a crystal into a watch's case.
2.)Replace the current crown with one of the same shape, having a slightly larger crowncap if most prefer it (as in wider or broader, not longer or higher standing off the case, which would only serve to more likely catch on things and dig into the wrist), but otherwise designed internally and as to its exact internal dimensional specifications as a blatant copy of the classic Rolex TripleLock crown very much including its fully maintainable and replaceable screwed-in type crown tube right down to the exact same dimensional specifications so that it is interchangeable with the generic/Rolex parts including replacement gaskets, crown tubes, etc.
3.)Use Viton sealing material for each gasket in the watch.
4.)A flat top piramid shape date window replacing the existing PRS-14 dial's 6 hour numeral with the date wheel having a black numeral on a fully lumed background treatment which would serve as the 6 o'clock hour marker and possibly allow for reading the date in the dark.
5.)A Sinn U2 EZM5 style viewable and replaceable desiccant capsule mounted inside under the glass on the dial----NOT----NOT EXTERNALLY SCREWED INTO THE CASE LUG LIKE SOME SINN MODELS ARE----and positioned below the 6 o'clock date window at the dial's edge, plus another replaceable desiccant capsule mounted unseen inside the soft iron antimagnetic movement cage(i.e. iether mounted in a bracket under, or built into, the thick soft iron dial or on a movement plate, etc.) as space allows. However, and importantly, and not to mention of course, the availability of the above for incorporation into any Timefactors watch is legally predicated on whether Sinn's patent protection on this interior case moisture absorbing technology has expired or not.
6.)Use the new, I believe SuperLuminova developed "24 hour" lume that apparently maintains its glow much longer than the standard SuperLuminova. I'll mention that I've only heard of this new SL 24H lume developement spoken of in vague terms, but supposedly it is available now.
7.)Instead of the current PRS-14's springbar strap attachment design, use screwed lugbars having a solid flanged head on one end of the lugbar that fits into a recess machined in the case's lugbar holes and threading on the opposite end of the lugbar to which a counterthreaded female end-cap(identical in outer dimensions when in place to the other end of the lugbar pin's solid flanged head so that either male end of the lugbar will fit iether identically dimensioned case female lugbar recess interchangeably) is attached to secure the lugbar into the caselugs(i.e. lugbars designed exactly like the screwed pins that hold the body links of Eddie's beautiful PRS-22 Speedbird 3 bracelet together). You can only ever strip the threads of the easily and inexpensively replaceable lugbar/end-cap unit itself and never the caselugs so one doesn't have to face strap changes with high anxiety. This design would be as strong and rock reliable as military type fixed lugbars are provided the threaded end parts are secured with hand tool removeable BLUE Loc-Tite(this is the same treatment professionals recommend to secure the threaded connections, screws, nuts, and bolts of heavily vibrating motorcycles and such) at each strap change.
Also, if watch strap/bracelet "breakaway" is important under given conditions, well tested breakaway springbars can be used for the strap's buckle, etc., or the bracelet's clasp, etc. But if solid watch retention is preferable, solid screw pins designed like the above screwed lugbars can be used for a strap's buckle, etc., or a bracelet's clasp, etc. In other words, unlike watches having caselugs designed for springbars, with the screwed lugbar design above the user has the option range of having the watch iether solidly attached with no "weak links" to compromise the strength of its retention or having the watch capable of breaking away from the wrist at a certain and specified level of pressure which is sometimes recommended or desired.
8.)Make the caselugs just a bit longer and with a bit more downward curve to make the watch sit a bit better on the wrist if the consensus of PRS-14 owners feel that would be an improvement over the current watch. Also, if the consensus is congruent, widen the horn distance(i.e. strap width) from the current 20mm to a full 22mm.
9.)Make the heavy-duty open end link Omega style mesh bracelet recently discussed over on the TZ-UK strap and bracelet subforum(i.e. "Leather, Rubber, & Nylon") available as an extra cost option for this watch.
10.)I'll add that I very much hope Eddie decides to keep the full soft iron 80,000A/m rated antimagnetic movement cage for a possible new version of the PRS-14 because I for myself would very much rather have that feature than a couple of millimeters lower case height.
11.)And finally, I would like the movement to remain the current "Swiss" ETA 2824-2 if possible, with the special order extra cost/extra wait time option of a chronometer grade version movement available for those who want it.
* [reference link to photograph of original 1960s Omega SeaMaster300/165.014 Mark XI type internally secured screw-down crystal design using a heavy and coarsely threaded steel retaining ring courtesy TZ-UK member Foggy shown second photo down at his personal website: http://www.freewebs.com/foggy69/omegasm300ref165014.htm ]
Not too fussed about a date and don't believe a bracelet would do anything much for the watch (except bump the price significantly!?). It would be nice to have a sapphire crystal though.
I'm just a wee bit gutted at the moment, as I was doing my level best to save up for the current prs14 for my birthday in a few months... :cry:
David
High dome sapphire please and a slightly larger crown with screwed-in crown tube (SB3 style). And a decent bracelet would be great too. Probably a thick mesh or beads of rice bracelet...
Jan
I'd like a date, but I can't see any of this happening anyway :D
As the PRS-14 is my favorite Precista, I would say "Please keep it as it is", adding a date window would definitively alter the perfect dial design.
The only part I would like to be changed is the crown to have it slightly bigger.
Benoît
Pay attention at the back!
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=56493&p=584057&hilit=sapphire #p584057
Only death is certain, friend.Pay attention at the back!
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=56493&p=584057&hilit=sapphire #p584057
And I´m not the one on the watch business.
Please please please make a new PRS-14 with a date window. I think the acrylic crystal would be fine, but having a sapphire option is always nice. A bracelet would just be icing on the cake.
If you make it, I'll buy it. I promise.
Since I already own one and it's not going anywhere, Eddie can do anything he wants with the next batch (except, of course, screw it up which I don't think he has the ability to do).
My ONLY complaint would be about the crown. Screwing it down is tough and "fiddly" as someone else put it. Seems like there are 2 "catches" it wants to screw into. And once it does catch there doesn't seem to be a lot of thread to screw into. Any other owners experiencing the same problems/symtoms?
Dave
No date please! This is a watch for vacation. I don't want to know the date when I wear it. Everything else sounds great.
-O
Exactly as you describe. Makes me nervous everytime, but hasn't been a problem yet.
-O
Yep, the crown can be fiddly. I've managed to knacker mine, so it's going back to Fricker (I've done in the bezel as well). I have had it over 3 years, though, so I wouldn't say it's a weak design, just that I was clumsy once too often!
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
No. The crown is smallish and hard for me to grip, but it's always gone exactly where it's supposed to when I screw it down. Probably can't apply enought torque to cross-thread it.
Regular one is great but would be keen to see a new take, possibly date window? :)
Respect the past, live the present, protect the future
No date for me
sapphire crystal would be nice and a mesh and a bracelet.
None.
There is nothing on the 14 that needs to be changed. I wouldn't mind a bracelet option but that isn't a change to the actual watch.
If Eddie thinks that adding a date window would sell more 14s, he should try it. Omega did:
Actually looks pretty darn nice - even with the date.
Dave
The no-date is the only thing wrong with the PRS-18, and I really like that watch.
The things stopping me from getting a PRS-14 in the past are
a) lack of sapphire
b) lack of date
both of these are available on the PRS-50 but the A/M rating is not. For me I'd rather the PRS-50 was upped to the A/M rating of the PRS-14 and then I'd buy the 50. That would give you to choices.
i) PRS-14, acrylic, no date,
ii) PRS-50 sapphire, date
Both are homages to great watches.
Therefore I'd prefer the 50 to be changed not the 14.
Eldrich
Hi,
Fix the crown (if it needs fixing?) and offer some more with the black PVD finish. Apart from that, if it ain't broke...
Does anyone know if the PRS-14 will be restocked?
Eddie said that it might not happen, because of copyright arrassements. I personally think that he shouldn´t be afraid but it is his wallet on the line, not mine. The risk and benefits are his to consider.
The purpose of this poll was to find out if there was enough interest and if that interest implied doing some changes to the original design.
Personally, I would like to see a larger diameter crown, sapphire crystal, a single but effective luminous "pearl" or triangle on the bezel. A date function would also be nice. A reasonably regulated movement would also help.
a) Larger Crown
b) Choice of either date or no date
c) Chronometer grade (if available)
Terry
I love the look of the 14, but I'd like to see a sapphire crystal. I understand that sapphire can break, but polishing out scratches sucks....
A PRS-14 and an SB-3 are the next two on my list.
Cheers,
Jay
Having just polished out some scratches on my acrylic ZEX, I can say first hand it wasn't a big deal. I like the look of the acrylic too. The only hesitation I would have is that there seemed to be a couple postings recently about people experiencing cracked crystals in their PRS-14s and subsequent problems if the repair wasn't done properly. I'm just wondering how common that is for the 14. The SB3 and the 14 are also next on my list.
Rick
I like this idea about blending in some kontiki styling but I would be looking at the lugs. I agree with Rollon that more curve down on the lugs would be good and unsurprisingly if one looks at a kontiki you can see how such a mod could morph the lugs from Omega to kontiki. For me its the lugs that are the big problem since they are instantly recognisable as Omega and are perhaps the single biggest and most important component of the Omega design language carried through their styling for the past 40 odd years. I think a different bezel insert and a date dial with the big triangle would be enough to make it look like it isn't an Omega clone.
I've had my 14 for more than 3 years (I think it was from the second batch Eddie got) and have had no problem with the crystal. I've buggered the bezel and crown up so it's back with Fricker for repair, but that's my own hamfisted fault, frankly. I'm not sure how many Eddie has sold, but I've only seen two instances reported of crystal problems, both recently and they just happened to be close together. Colin (Nalu) took his with him on tour in either Iraq or Afghanistan (sorry, I forget which) and used it as a field watch quite happily, so they're plenty tough!
(I'd quite like a 14 with a date, I do still like the acrylic but can understand why a sapphire might be more popular.)
Dave E
Skating away on the thin ice of a new day
I agree. I did try a Yao dial with date, but the proportions made the dial a bit crowded-looking, and the triangle was too skinny. I swapped it back again and I use my mobile for the date (when in range). If I'm going to be out of range for days, then I wear a different watch.
This is how it looks with the Yao dial:
I think that a updated PRS 14 should reflect the MOD divewatches of the 1960-70. Eterna Kontiki was not one of the MOD watches. But the Rolex 5513 and 5517 was. If the problem is Omegas copyright, I think it would be easier to make an homeage of the 5517 milsub....... :bounce:if there is a copywright risk i'd definatly lose the sm300 omegon connection and transform it in to an early kontiki hommage by changing the bezel thus negating the need for a significantly larger crown as the current crown size occupies the width of the case nicely and only appears small in relaion to the hieght and style of the bezel edge compared to its inspiration, unless the omegans designed that one too! I know the early kontki super was a good mil spec diver and has a huge following because of its idf issuedness. Keep the sword hands put in a lumed 12, 6 , 9 3'oclock dated dial with diamond markers and voila! Ok i'll shut up now.
if there is a copywright risk i'd definatly lose the sm300 omegon connection and transform it in to an early kontiki hommage by changing the bezel thus negating the need for a significantly larger crown as the current crown size occupies the width of the case nicely and only appears small in relaion to the hieght and style of the bezel edge compared to its inspiration, unless the omegans designed that one too! I know the early kontki super was a good mil spec diver and has a huge following because of its idf issuedness. Keep the sword hands put in a lumed 12, 6 , 9 3'oclock dated dial with diamond markers and voila! Ok i'll shut up now.
According to to (http://home.earthlink.net/~modguide/modguide.html) there was Rolex milsub, Omega SM300, Blancpain W10(anyone that knowes what that looked like?), CWC automatic RN Diver.
/Dawe
How can Omega claim copyright to an MOD specification?
Is it a matter of claiming copyright to it everywhere but the UK?
To my mind, just because they made a watch or watches conforming to the MOD standard, that doesn't mean they now own the standard.
The two watches appear almost identical; is that it?
They'd be claiming copyright to the design (aesthetically) rather than specification.
You could built any amount of watches to the same specification but neither would look the same, much like any other product built to a given spec, just look at computers, cars, houses etc. You can find any two objects with the same spec but with a different appearance.
My view on homage watches is that they should influenced by the style of a certain watch but be noticeably different from it.
Chris
a sapphire bezel insert would be nice.. :love5:
Sapphire bezel insert
Bigger crown
Domed sapphire crystal
Make the watch less thick and about as slim as the SMP
The 14 tended to look a bit pork pie-ish on the wrist it was that thick............scrap the inside cover if needs be to make the watch slimmer
I wont be filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, I am not a number, I am a free man, my life is my own!!!
Be seeing you
Toodle pip
Griff.
I liked my PRS-14 very much, but it would have to be offered on a pukka Omega-style bracelet to tempt me back into ownership.
Chris,They'd be claiming copyright to the design (aesthetically) rather than specification.
You could built any amount of watches to the same specification but neither would look the same, much like any other product built to a given spec, just look at computers, cars, houses etc. You can find any two objects with the same spec but with a different appearance.
My view on homage watches is that they should influenced by the style of a certain watch but be noticeably different from it.
Chris
My own country is often characterized for the volumn and variety of aggressive litigation that occurs here. Still, and has been ongoing for many years, companies here and world wide more or less exactly copy, right down to the detailed nuances of aesthetic form and the interchangeability of all parts, several present patent expired handgun designs of the famous Colt Firearms Company and do so with absolutely no legal problems whatever I am aware of as long as they do not apply Colt's company name or its copyrighted names and symbols to their own products, or in any other way deceptively or negligently misprovenance their goods to Colt manufacture.
IF that understanding of American copyright law as regards the exact copy of form and function is accurate, and it is as far as I know, and IF ---IF--- this would be analogous and transferable to any British, Swiss, EU, and/or WTO, etc., laws or regulations, etc., that might bear upon a Sheffield, England company that legitimately, undeceptively, and without negligence homaged another company's no longer patent protected original watch design, I don't quite understand exactly what the specific conceptual, legal, ethical, or whatever basis of your concern might be as to duplicating the external shape, form, or style of a commercial object outside of using it to misrepresent provenance of the duplication's production to the originating company. Not that your concerns are necessarily invalid, certainly, but I don't as yet see any specific basis these might have beyond that mentioned.
In this context, and something you may not be fully aware of as it transpired apparently before you became a member here, Swatch pursued a legal case against Timefactors under US law as regards its alleged use of the Omega copyrighted name of "BroadArrow", which was intended by TF strictly as a benign reference to the famous British government property mark deeply rooted in your country's history and still specifically applied to British MOD military issue watches. However, as I understand it, Eddie concurrently made a separate Timefactors watch to which the "BroadArrow" name was not applied having the hour and minute hands shaped very much like the specific Omega Speedmaster, etc., set of hands to which Swatch's copyrighted name of "BroadArrow" concerned. He called this watch the "Californian"(it also had a classic "California" pattern dial as Rolex equiped some of its famous "Bubbleback" production with during the 1940s and '50s). I don't know if Eddie was actioned as to that particular watch in the suit brought against him, or even in [viable legal*] theory could [have been*], unless Swatch's attorneys tried to rationalize that since, in the context that Timefactors sold both a watch having close to the Omega "BroadArrow" copyrighted shape of hands, and other TF watches, separately, having the Swatch copyrighted "BroadArrow" prominently displayed as the branded name, this would somehow potentially confuse purchasers as to the provenance of the watches they were purchasing from TF as going to Swatch's Omega brand itself. If I have it wrong on the legal points of the case as it was actually grounded and pursued by Omega/Swatch, though, I apologise to Eddie and hope he will step in to clarify my unintentional misrepresentation of it.
On the point, however, and in other words, and using a lot of inference and hope that I'm not wrong, it is my understanding that using the EXACT cosmetic shape, form, and aesthetic style of another company's original patent expired product is apparently O.K. in legal terms, here in the US at least, if not used in collusion with or contextually with a copyrighted name, or a copyrighted symbol, or any other markings or the lack of them that would imply provenance to the company that manufactured and sold the original product that was copied.
However, and obviously, such a critically important and crucially relevant legal detail would I would think be absolutely prerequisite for a legitimate manufacturer of high quality homages and recreations to fully and correctly understand BEFOREHAND in the context of his own products. I think an excellent, and perhaps the only reliable source to go to for that would be consultation with an adept and fully competant practicing patent/copyright/intellectual property attorney highly experienced in watch industry issues.
By the way, several of the legitimate copies of the original Colt M1911 and its variants that I referenced above are often considered to be of superior quality and manufacture to the genuine Colt products. Also, though bringing up such a Politically Incorrect and controversial object as this might rile or agitate some, it was the closest analogy I could draw.
[*] = edits., 10/26/08, R.
Handguns are not politically incorrect. They are merely a means to kill people.
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