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Thread: Rip off watches on Ebay, eg. Montres Allison

  1. #1
    Guest

    Rip off watches on Ebay, eg. Montres Allison

    I'm the owner of the page at http://www.an1.co.uk/ebaywatches (formerly http://www.homp.org/vogel). I noticed some hits with referers from this forum.
    Many thanks to abraxas for posting my link in the post here http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5511

    What I'd like to do is build up a dossier of nasty watch companies on Ebay and have a page for each one with evidence and information on each company. Sort of like a name and shame exercise. Then, hopefully we will avoid having people ripped off on Ebay.

    Many thanks.

    Kind Regards

    Alan.

  2. #2
    Guest
    DELETED

  3. #3
    Guest

    Regarding Montres Allison

    Some of you know me from the regular tz, thepurists, watchparadise, etc., and I am here to say that Montres Allison is doing some exciting things. Just look at their webpages at http://www.montresallison.net/ensvizzengarten and http://www.montresallison.net/webcam.htm

    Look at their engine turning on the video, the pictures of their rose engine - and video of it in action. Look at the solid gold and unfinished components. They are making very nice high quality timepieces and should definitely not be included in discussions of far lesser brands.

    There have been some posts on the tz ahci forum for quite some time about this information and on watchparadise and without a single naysayer. Maybe you have overlooked these things but many of us WIS are seeing them and appreciating them.

    Be seeing you around the forums.
    Rothman

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: Regarding Montres Allison

    Quote Originally Posted by Rothman
    Look at their engine turning on the video, the pictures of their rose engine - and video of it in action. Look at the solid gold and unfinished components. They are making very nice high quality timepieces and should definitely not be included in discussions of far lesser brands.
    If you feel so passionately and happily about Montres Allison watches I suggest you take the time to read all the links about Montres Allison watches on my page. They are all to independent links not written by me. Only info I provide is about domain registrations. It'll take you a while to read the links but you'll get the picture and I hope it changes your mind before it's too late. I wouldn't like you or anyone else to be scammed. I guess you don't know ur scammed unless you're knowledgeable, but I have experienced being scammed and on top of my girlfriend leaving me it doesn't feel too good I must say.

    The idea is they want you to think they're watches are worth the money they say they are, when they aren't. Think about it. If you had all the time and resources in the world, and wanted to sell $30 chinese watches for $300. All you have to do is make a convincing website (probably easier to do than you think) and set-up an on-line shop with prices in the thousands. Sell them on Ebay and clueless people will bid hundreds.

    Edit: Don't you think their website is like trying too hard to make you think they're a genuine company?! I do.

  5. #5
    Anewman & Rothman:

    Be advised that TZ-UK is a friendly site for people to talk about watches (and smut). It isn't the place to bring your vendettas.

  6. #6
    Anewman & Rothman:

    Be advised that TZ-UK is a friendly site for people to talk about watches (and smut). It isn't the place to bring your vendettas.

  7. #7
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by endure
    Anewman & Rothman:

    Be advised that TZ-UK is a friendly site for people to talk about watches (and smut). It isn't the place to bring your vendettas.
    Many thanks for ensuring and supporting a friendly atmosphere. However, I was not attempting to enter into an argument, merely to inform about the possibility a company is a "scam". Any person who reads all the info can decide for themself whether the company is a scam or not and purchase watches accordingly. Anything else I have to say about Montres Allison will be on my website and not on your forum I can assure you.

    Regards,

    Alan.

  8. #8
    Master
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    Alan

    Please feel free to chat with us about any other watches in your possession, a new face and a new collection is always of interest!

    Kevin

  9. #9
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by KCampbell
    Please feel free to chat with us about any other watches in your possession, a new face and a new collection is always of interest!
    Done in new thread http://www.tz-uk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5600

  10. #10
    Master
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    E Bay crap

    I am sure many of you have seen the hundreds of Krug Baumen and Claude Valentini watches on E Bay for around £75. They were advertised in BMW or was it Mercedes magazine for prices of £500+. They come with a price tag saying this. A friend of my wife purchaased a "Krug Baumen Lapmaster" for £75 with an official looking £650 price tag on it. As she knows nothing about watches she thought she had a bargain. The watch was a crappy Chinese crock of s---e worth about £20. I don't mind crap watches being sold on E Bay, it's just this b----ks about them having a recommended retail price of over £600 that gets up my nose. The spurious advert in the car magazines must represent some kind of illegal scam?! They also have web sites with the biggest load of bullshit on them that wouldn't fool a watch buff for a moment, but there are too many gullible folk around. I E Mailed the Claude Valenti address and expressed my concerns. I received a reply telling me to "Fuck off and stop wasting my time".

    What more can I say!

    Martin : :bootyshake:

  11. #11

    Re: E Bay crap

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisholm
    I am sure many of you have seen the hundreds of Krug Baumen and Claude Valentini watches on E Bay for around £75. They were advertised in BMW or was it Mercedes magazine for prices of £500+. They come with a price tag saying this. A friend of my wife purchaased a "Krug Baumen Lapmaster" for £75



    Martin : :bootyshake:
    When I first read that I thought it said 'Krug Baumen Lapdancer" :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

  12. #12
    Guest
    That's unfortunate :( I wonder how much it is to place an ad in these magazines or what sort of checks are done. I'm guessing not as much as you might think and none other than to make sure the material isn't inappropriate, eg. prostitution.

    Now I know what to think when I see these big full page colour ads in these magazines raving about a diamond ring or a watch from a brand I never heard. It's a shame because the bad apples spoil it for the rest and to some degree help companies like Omega and Rolex monopolise the market.

    Oh yes, we'd all like a cheap lapdancer :o :lol:

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by anewman
    That's unfortunate :( I wonder how much it is to place an ad in these magazines or what sort of checks are done. I'm guessing not as much as you might think and none other than to make sure the material isn't inappropriate, eg. prostitution.

    Now I know what to think when I see these big full page colour ads in these magazines raving about a diamond ring or a watch from a brand I never heard. It's a shame because the bad apples spoil it for the rest and to some degree help companies like Omega and Rolex monopolise the market.

    Oh yes, we'd all like a cheap lapdancer :o :lol:
    But Omega and Rolex only monpolise the market at your local jewellers. There are lots of good watches out there that aren't Omega or Rolex. You ought to go and look at some of the other forums - pmwf.com - timezone.com - watchuseek.com. There are dozens of sites with good watches for sale. Eddie's at http://www.timefactors.com is a good place to start.

  14. #14
    Master
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    Hi,
    there is a list (called "schwarze Liste" <=> black list) of watch brands in the German-Swiss-Austrian Watchbizzforum.
    These watch brands offer watches of poor quality and try to cheat people (especially at eBay) by declaring an "official retail price" of hundreds or thousand of Euros which is just not true. In reality not a single watch will ever be sold or bought for this price and there is no shop offering them for the "official retail price".
    So the problem is not the watch, but the distribution. Uninformed people get cheated because they believe in making a great deal buying a watch for e. g. 150 Euros at eBay with an "official retail price" of e. g. 999 Euros.
    So the manufacturers and dealers achieve prices for the poor quality watches which are much higher than they are worth.
    If you want to buy a watch with a cheap Chinese movement and other cheap components for e. g. 50 Euros it's okay. But if you are misinformed and you pay 150 Euros for it's a problem.
    And that is exactly what the "black list" brands and dealers do. :twisted:
    To make clear: if you buy a cheap watch and you like it and you know the truth, it's IMHO absolutely okay. No one can really tell what a watch is worth. Of course there are many watches and manufacturers as good or even better than e. g. Omega or Rolex. Some are cheaper, some are more expensive than these brands - that's a (more or less) free market!
    E. g. Timefactors is something completely different from "great brands" on the one hand and "black list" brads on the other hand, because Eddie offers watches of a very good quality for a very fair price. There is IMHO a better relation of price and value compared with the "great brands", but there is much more quality and value compared with the "black list" brands.
    Another example for a (IMO) good relation of price and value is Poljot. Poljot watches are of course not of really high quality, but of an acceptable quality with robust movements.
    Other examples are some Seikos and Citizens.
    From my personal point of view I wouldn't like to wear "black list" watches; if I want to buy a low price watch, I'll buy e. g. Poljot. That's why I own some Poljots and a Dreadnought and an Audemars Piguet.
    All in all it's everyone?s personal decision what to buy and wear, even it's a "Krug Baümen" or something like that - but everyone should know the facts!

    Of course it's important to stay friendly and tolerant here, so I tried to express my opinions in a differentiated and careful way, which is not easy for me in English. So I hope no one feels attacked personally.
    Regards, Hal :)

  15. #15
    Hello,

    I bought a Claude Valentini on ebay. I wanted to see what they were. Just curious, I guess. (Good thing I'm not a cat.) It came in under my max bid of 12 quid.

    The box the watch came in is pretty good (but not nearly as good as Eddie's).

    I'll trade the watch for a used black NATO. Half a used NATO? A bent spring bar? Half of one?

    Best wishes,
    Bob

  16. #16
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    The art of pretending that watches are worth more than they are has been practiced by major jewelery stores in the UK for years by hiding a few watches at exorbitant prices somewhere at the north of Scotland and then selling them at lower prices to the rest of the country ...

    But MA is on another level ...

    As far as MA ... most people on this Forum will rather eat raw human flesh than have anything to do with MA apart from giving it curiosity value ... Is that clear enough Mr Rothman?

    john

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas
    The art of pretending that watches are worth more than they are has been practiced by major jewelery stores in the UK for years by hiding a few watches at exorbitant prices somewhere at the north of Scotland and then selling them at lower prices to the rest of the country ...

    But MA is on another level ...

    As far as MA ... most people on this Forum will rather eat raw human flesh than have anything to do with MA apart from giving it curiosity value ... Is that clear enough Mr Rothman?

    john

    Can't we have it flambéd in a little soy & chilli sauce?

  18. #18
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endure

    But MA is on another level ...

    As far as MA ... most people on this Forum will rather eat raw human flesh than have anything to do with MA apart from giving it curiosity value ... Is that clear enough Mr Rothman?

    john
    Coming right up ...
    :arrow: :arrow:

    john

  19. #19
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    Aneuman

    A message to aneuman.

    Your not the legendary Alfred E Neuman are you?
    Eddie knows what I'm talking about, and the old farts amongst you may well also know!

    "What me worry"

    :wink:

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by abraxas
    Quote Originally Posted by endure

    But MA is on another level ...

    As far as MA ... most people on this Forum will rather eat raw human flesh than have anything to do with MA apart from giving it curiosity value ... Is that clear enough Mr Rothman?

    john
    Coming right up ...
    :arrow: :arrow:

    john
    Yum! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

  21. #21

    Re: Aneuman

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisholm
    A message to aneuman.

    Your not the legendary Alfred E Neuman are you?
    Eddie knows what I'm talking about, and the old farts amongst you may well also know!

    "What me worry"

    :wink:
    You're MAD.

    Best wishes,
    Bob

  22. #22
    Guest

    Hi everybody... On this subject...

    I have to say regarding the independent links provided by anewman that you fail to post the information on the MA website in multiple places that states that they use components from Asian countries, European countries, and the US. They even have a big piece on Kiu Tai Yu to help try to convince people that there can be good components from countries other than Switzerland.

    MA doesn't say that their watches are Swiss Made, Made in Germany, etc. They don't make the false claims of these other companies who use deception to sell their items. And not only that, but their watches have 1000 month warranties, and they've been in business for something like five years.

    Here is a quote from the MA homepage: "MA Luxury Timepieces uses fine parts, movements, accessories, and components from various countries around the world in the manufacture of our exclusive luxury timepieces. MA Luxury Timepieces is a celebration of fine watchmaking worldwide and is not limited to one geographical region. Please read more about MA Luxury Timepieces in our history and faq pages.
    "

    Here is a quote from their history page: "Ensvizzengarten, located in the high mountains near Nederland, CO, is the home of MA Luxury Timepieces wristwatches. While a world away from the Swiss origin of watchmaking, MA Luxury Timepieces produces some of the finest timepieces available in the world today using MA Luxury Timepieces in-house movements, ETA Swiss Made movements, and ebauches and calibres from various regions and manufacturers around the world. Non-inhouse components absolutely must be manufactured to the precise standards required in MA Luxury Timepieces. MA Luxury Timepieces is proud that it will not be limited to only one geographic region in the selection of parts, movements, and components in the manufacture of its luxury timepieces. MA Luxury Timepieces utilizes the best technology and engineers in the world during the design and manufacture processes. With assembly, engineering, service and design processes being performed in New York, NY, USA; Ipsach, Switzerland; Nederland, CO, USA; Japan, Russia, Germany, China, and Hong Kong, MA Luxury Timepieces is truly a global presence in the luxury wristwatch industry."

    In doing my research, I learned that they are members of the Better Business Bureau and have never had a complaint filed against them. Five years of producing watches and no complaints sounds pretty good.

    And then there's the pictures and videos and their invite on their site for anybody to go visit them.

    Maybe as John Davis said, their first watch was a POS, but people have said the same about early Rolexes (Wilsdorf and Davis) and early Mullers. Then there's Movado which is now based in New Jersey, USA and TAG Heuer that sell gold plated quartz watches for over a thousand US dollars.

    If MA is handmaking solid gold dials, putting them into solid gold cases made in the USA, using tourbillon movements, sapphire crystals, solid gold components like rotors, etc., then this puts them in a category of companies that are actually doing machine work and metallurgy and engine turning. They should not be compared to those companies that are using a mineral crystal and plastic movement holder in a non-screwdown case all made in China with a stamped brass dial and ultra cheap unfinished movement and then calling it Swiss Made or Made in Germany.

    I think many others are realizing this information too, and hence that is why the posts on regular tz ahci and watchparadise have not been flamed. I think that others have started taking an interest and more of a wait and see attitude and have been able to differentiate between those companies and a US company that is obviously trying very hard to make the right moves. Yes it may seem that they are trying to hard to convince everybody that they are doing their own machining, assembly, etc., but wouldn't you do the same if there was this nonsense out there? You would not want to lose customers based on obvious lies, so you would hope that the proof you are showing on your website that you are legitimate would be enough convince people that you are legitimate.

    I would challenge you to take a more of a wait and see attitude and not include that company with those others in your mind just like many of us on the other forums have started doing. And to give a balanced point of view on the subject, why not provide links to the much higher number of positive comments posted on the web as well as the picture of their facility and webcam?

    Rothman

  23. #23
    Master
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    This is a picture of Mr Allison himself. This proves his watches are real :shock:

  24. #24
    Master
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    Sorry, it was my error: both "Franck Muller" watches are fakes! Please take a look at my correction posted on page three of the thread.

    An example for MA creativity:


    original Frank Muller - Montres Allison lookalike - faked Frank Muller
    The original FM is of course the only one with a real tourbillon!*

    From my point of view ...

    * Yes, a real FM has got a tourbillon, but this is not a real FM.

  25. #25
    Grand Master
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    Sorry mate, none of those FM's have a tourbillon :P

    Ming

  26. #26
    Journeyman
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    Have I missed the joke - neither of the FMs is genuine is it? If it is then they can go to the back of the class for that dial design!

    M.

  27. #27
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    Ming you got there first...I can't say I could identify a tourbillon as reliably but the balances both look the same to me.

    Genuine FM (presumably): http://www.grayandsons.com/watches/deta ... num=r50449

    At least the hands are at the centre of the dial markings though it still looks ugly to me.

    M.

  28. #28
    Apprentice
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    There's an old saying with a lot of truth that it's difficult to scam an honest person. What is anybody thinking that's paying $75 for a watch with a "retail price" of ten times that?

  29. #29
    Guest

    Ming is right... plus...

    Neither of those Mullers is authentic.

    Somebody earlier said that they didn't know of any other WIS that had anything good to say about MAs, but I found this info doing a search:

    Here is a link to the original message:

    http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1050504978

    Slugo (aka Mike Ferber) is a well known WIS (term given to those on the
    internet who particpate heavily in watch forums) Mike Ferber's
    opinion is very highly respected by everybody in the wristwatch world.
    Below are his comments regarding his Montres Allison and he is in
    agreement with Baron Harkonnen (aka Mike Strickland) who may be one of
    the most prolific watch forum particpators in the history of the
    internet. Mr. Strickland is known as a genius and his intelligence
    is highly regarded by all. His comments follow.






    Return to
    the Forum











    Some preliminary
    info on my Montres Allison >>

    April 16 2003 at
    7:56 AM



    Slugo (Login
    MFerber)

    Official Animal House Moderator & Abe's of Maine LOVER!

    from IP address 216.220.167.140








    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    I
    pretty much agree with the Baron. This is a huge and very well
    constructed watch. The case and all the components are finished as
    well as any Omega amd much better than a number of more expensive
    watches. The stem is large and easy to manipulate. The strap is the
    real thing, pure thick, supple alligator with a better than average
    deplopyant buckle. The dial is a work of art, just as good as any
    Genta or equivalent timepiece. The movement appears to have as much
    mods as what IWC does on some of its models.



    I'm very well pleased. Pictures later...



    Slugo










    Here is the link to the orginal message:

    http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1050349316


















    Return to the Forum











    Why you should take
    Terry Allison II seriously.

    April 14 2003 at 12:41
    PM

    Baron Harkonnen (no
    login)

    from IP address 68.17.226.123








    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    I
    recieved my MA watch in the mail today. It is an automatic with second
    hand, no date.



    Mine is not the one that JW has, mine has a gold washed ETA movement,
    and an apeture in the dial with allows the balance wheel to be seen.



    The watch is massive, the case is well finished, it has a genuine
    alligator dial and a SS deployant buckle.



    I came with a catalog with detailed pictures of several models,
    including the $99,000 tourbillon. (that is not a joke).



    I was really impressed with the heft and size of the watch, must be
    about the size of a Panerai. Weighs a half pound or so.



    Personally I rank watches with ETA movements pretty much the same, I
    rank sample with some of Franck Muller less expensive pieces. Probably
    half a cut above the Omega Seamaster line, at least in the finish of the
    case, hands, dial. The ETA movement has some rough swirls (gillouche?)
    cut in it before it was gold washed, but it shows well through the dial
    and display backto the naked eye.



    I passed the watch around at lunch, there were three attorney's and a
    chiro present. They all seemed to like the watch and took the $6000 plus
    price tag as ordinary. They all have Rolexes, usually tt DJs or Subs.



    I'm going to wear it for a couple of months and send it to John Davis
    and see if he will take it apart. I really don't care for the shape,
    round or square is my preference.



    My G2 is due back from the factory and I'll take some close ups.



    The hands look a whole lot better on this one than the hands on the one
    that JW got, and I looked at 10x.












    Here is a post from Mike Strickland regading his qualifications after his
    postive Montres Allison comments:









    Return to the Forum











    Dear "Guest User" My
    Qualifications

    April 15 2003 at 2:35 PM

    Baron Harkonnen (no
    login)

    from IP address 68.17.252.67








    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    Regarding my qualifications as a judge of watches:



    I took Walt Odets watch school in 1999, both courses.



    I have owned three Pateks and one Vacheron + Constantin (still have it).



    I have three Hamilton pocket watches, including 2 992 RR certified
    watches. Hamilton 992's have finishing that makes Patek and Lange both
    look crude.



    I have three Rolexes. A TT GMT Master from 1978, a solid 18kt Datejust
    from 1970, and a virgin President 18030. I have owned Rolexes since
    1969, perhaps fifteen total.



    I sold three watches on eBay about 5 months ago, A Speedy Pro that I had
    for 25 years, a JLC 14ky WG diamond watch, and a vintage BlancPain 50
    Fathoms that I bought for $75 at a flea market. My take for the three
    was just shy of 3 grand. My investment was less than $700.



    I currently own about 65 pieces worth around 35 grand. From Timex of a
    NIB 1929 Hamilton Masterpiece to a Enameled cased Tavanese.



    I own seven Shugarts, and have 4 WIS pins from Time Zone.



    How about you, chump.



    But there is much to be said for knowledge about fish hooks and beer.




    But history is more my interest, I have a BS from the University of
    Maryland in Management with a Minor in History. I am nearly finished
    with an MA in history from UF.





    Plus my dick is much bigger than yours and I use it more often
    LOLOLOLOLOL


























    And here are Ross Feinstein's
    comments. Ross is a former moderator of the timezone.com website and is
    extremely well known and his opinion is very highly regarded. Here is the
    orginal link:

    http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/mes ... 1050539780













    Return to the Forum











    No ass kissing
    here>>>

    April 16 2003 at 5:36 PM



    Ross (Login
    RossF)

    Animal House Member

    from IP address 205.188.209.134








    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    I have
    had the watch for the good part of today. My original thoughts are still
    valid. I put the watch on par with Oris, Fortis, and the many other ETA
    watches in this category.



    I would not compare it to IWC, and would fall short of equating it to
    Omega and Breitling.



    I am still at a loss as to what the 'H B C' stands for on the rotor and
    cheapens the look. The hairline inside the crystal has me curious. The
    dial design, especially with the diamonds(?), leaves something to be
    desired in my opinion. I think dividing the dial into thirds detracts
    from visibility and when quickly glancing at the watch it is not as easy
    to tell the time as a black dial with white hands should be.



    As much as I might have wanted to say, I will not say it's a bad watch.
    I also will refrain from saying it's a great watch. I am Delta Neutral
    (just for you Mike) on it. For now.

  30. #30
    Master
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    :pukeleft:

    :banghead:

    Give it a rest mate.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Si
    :pukeleft:

    :banghead:

    Give it a rest mate.
    I fully agree.

    Best wishes,
    Bob

  32. #32
    Is this over and can I go home now? :withstupid:

    Steve.

  33. #33

  34. #34
    Grand Master Mrcrowley's Avatar
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    Hopefully Steve

    But as a fairly long term member of this forum, & one that likes it full of constructive watch talk & humour, can I say on behalf of most TZUK members regarding the MA issue

    Do we give a flying feck lads?
    Paul

    GOT...TO...KILL...CAPTAIN STUPID!

  35. #35
    Grand Master
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    No. I think the end collector should be left to make up their own minds. I do not think it is necessary to debate at length, becuase neither side is going to convince the other that they are right.

    Ming

  36. #36
    Grand Master Mrcrowley's Avatar
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    That's why I own some Poljots and a Dreadnought and an Audemars Piguet.
    What AP do you have Wombat?
    Paul

    GOT...TO...KILL...CAPTAIN STUPID!

  37. #37
    Master
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    Correction: Franck Muller Tourbillon

    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Thein
    Sorry mate, none of those FM's have a tourbillon :P
    Ming

    Sorry, of course you're right!
    This is a real 'Franck Muller Tourbillon Revolution' with a real tourbillon an a 'FM Conquistador'.



    This picture shows two Franck Muller fakes!
    Quote Originally Posted by wombat
    An example for MA creativity:

    I'm not an expert on Franck Muller watches and don't like the style at all.
    The picture are only an example the similarity between the FM watch and the MA.

    Regards, Hal

  38. #38
    Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrcrowley
    What AP do you have Wombat?
    Hi,
    a Royal Oak 'Jumbo' Ref. 15202.ST with movement AP 2121. I like it very much. :D
    Regards, Hal

  39. #39

  40. #40
    Guest
    I would be willing to place a serious bet that "Rothman" and Terry Allison share the same DNA.

  41. #41
    Grand Master abraxas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparks
    I would be willing to place a serious bet that
    "Rothman" and Terry Allison share the same DNA.
    They should be sharing the same straight-jacket too. If he had just a very quick look around this forum he would have known by now that we are fully aware of what Breguet had for breakfast ...

    Terry Allison might be making exceptional watches but he don't know sh** about selling them ... and where his customers are. Because they are not here. Bye :hello2:

    john

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