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Thanks for the update and insight Gary.
It seems you made the right move on the right time.
The fury is a great piece. Butter smooth winding action too. Pity as it was a really exiting time for them and WIS nit too long ago.Originally Posted by funkstar
It was a very tough sell, but has been growing on me. In the mean time the Fury and Audley were beautiful.
I wonder at what point the brothers knew it was all going to change - it felt like they had no idea.
Thanks for the update and insight Gary.
It seems you made the right move on the right time.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Put it this way, the only manufacturing going on there is for case parts that haven't been subbed out yet.
Oh, that's a bit depressing.
So all parts manufacturing is being farmed out?
It has been for a number of years, only certain case parts were made there but they'll eventually be stopped.
contrary to MrBanks reply to your comment which didn't answer the question, the Bremont official line is that they will be servicing the ENG300 movement indefinitely.
funnily enough, that's one of the things that I spoke directly to Giles English about in the 2010's. He was passionate about the staff and considered them to be the most important aspect of the company. The original townhouse events almost without fail had someone present to discuss the assembly of watches with customers which was both interesting and informative. I still remember discussing the assembly with one team member who described assembling a watch being like a puzzle - I'm not sure that I would have the patience. Something I did mention to another member of the Bremont management team was that given each watch at the time was assembled by a single person, in a similar way to how Aston Martin used to have the engine builders 'badge' the engines they had built, could the assemblers name not be included on the watch. Admittedly it might have been too much trouble for the volume models but possibly for the expensive limited editions? The idea seemed well received but sadly never came to fruition.
Nothing daft about that at all, admirable.
I did answer the question. I didn't answer the statement.
the ENG300 is easily serviced as it's a Horage movement and parts are readily available.
Very political. Why not just answer the ENG300 will continue to be serviced by Bremont or answer as your second line that I've quoted here?
As you seem to know all about Bremonts manufacturing, what about all the parts in the ENG300 movement that were non standard?
Why are you so fascinated with everything I say on here? If I say anything, you always have an answer for it or some seemingly witty retort; it's really weird. I understand you like the brand but as you can see, your precious brothers have sold out to their loyal customers. I don't tell half of what I know because it's not worth the hassle and I get accused of all sorts of things.
You can go to a multitude of component suppliers and get custom parts made in batches, for much less than what it would cost to make them in house. My "opinion" is the machines will be sold and any custom tooling will be provided to a outsource partner.
To be fair TAM has always jumped on anything negative that was said about Bremont, to the point I believed at one time he was working for them in a non-technical capacity.
It’s interesting he has even taking the fight to former employees. Even if they are (both?) disgruntled, there is usually a reason if 2 watch enthusiasts leave a company.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I've addressed this already. I joined after 15 years in oil and gas for a new challenge. Took a big pay cut, enjoyed my time there, had input into a lot of things as a WIS I never imagined I would, didn't like the direction things were going during covid, left to go back to my previous employer.
The only thing I am disgruntled about is how former employees (excluding me) were treated by new management and the direction the company is now taking.
I agree with you on TAM, I'm almost sure that he and possibly some others on different forums were paid by Bremont to keep a clean image on internet forums.
Last edited by MrBanks; 25th April 2024 at 11:46.
Thanks, that's good to know.
Ive been keeping an eye on the Supernovas as I do really like the design, but at the same time, I suspect that Bremont may cheap themselves into obsolescence at some point, so any promises about indefinite servicing would be null if they collapse.
Wouldn’t surprise me. The regular posts on social media a few years back from Craniotes when Red Bar was in its infancy would make even Hodinkee blush.
Ah well, how sad, never mind, enough to choose from when it all goes pear shaped.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
I wouldn't speak about the member in question but I've always felt that a bit of astroturfing was going on with Bremont. Just a few too many cult like posters defending their every move.I'm almost sure that he and possibly some others on different forums were paid by Bremont to keep a clean image on internet forums.
They might all be genuine but I dunno, feels odd.
I always thought it the other way round.
I was amazed how much hate Bremont got here on TZ.
Especially, given that it this is a UK forum and Bremont was (until recently) a UK company hoping to make high quality watches here in the UK.
I didn't come across many (if any) people who have actually been round the Wing and not been relatively impressed by the capability and intent being shown there.
As I have said many times here, I found many of their releases (LEs particularly) not to my taste, but I was always ready to defend a lot of their work, because I thought (and still do) that it was good.
My Alt1-P is definitely on the "keeper" list, and although I owned an America's Cup (which I found disappointing for being very unhardened titanium, with poor lume) I will definitely keep looking for one of the other Supermarine 500 GMTs.
I am very disappointed in the current state of affairs at Bremont.
I would also be very curious to talk to one of the brothers about it.
I am sure they are very disappointed that many, if not all, of their stated ambitions for the company are to be scrapped
I really couldn't care a less about you, I don't know you but what I do know is that almost every post you make about Bremont is negative and given that you're a former employee it comes across as an obvious bias. Why not make your posts factual and actually answer legitimate questions rather than trying to find a way to spin a negative. The easiest way for you to answer the question about the ENG300 was in the way that you did when I called you out on your first response, just say that the parts are readily available instead of saying that the only parts that haven't been subbed out by Bremont are case parts so make your own mind up. It gave me (and probably others) the impression that the ENG300 would no longer be serviceable which isn't the case. I'd comment (and have) on anyone elses posts that I knew were misleading or factually incorrect about Bremont or anything else for that matter.
and another obvious negative, how do you know that "your precious brothers have sold out". Were you in the board meetings, have you ever run your own company and involved major investors? Again, talking nonsense. Taking on a major investor is always a risk as they've found out. Plenty of other commentators have asked whether they have sold out or were they forced out which is a legitimate point and question, unlike yours.
about the only sensible comment you've made so far is how outsourcing can often save money (but not always). All things being equal, it's more cost effective to manufacture in house than outsourcing as there's at least one less profit margin to take account of. However, all things are never equal and Bremont trying to manufacture in house on such a small scale was always going to be expensive.
The only genuine negativity about Bremont was always targeted at their chosen marketing. The quality of the product was rarely challenged if at all, and while their pricing was ambitious the stated desire to make them in this country alleviated this issue in part. Indeed, many on this forum bought them, and quite a few have stated they will keep (some of) them.
I’ll gloss over the in-house fiasco, as they ate their humble pie yet took the necessary steps to make it good. It seems finances decided otherwise.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Interesting perspective. As 'sweets' has just commented, for some unknown reason there have been a lot of Bremont haters on here and as I like the brand, yes, for the most part I would defend them. I liked the fact that they were British, supported a British workforce, I liked quite a number of their watches and I liked that they were pushing the idea of bringing more manufacturing into the UK. That was primarily under the lead of the founders. Unfortunately things seem to have now changed and if you watch my posts as you purport to do then you will have seen that I'm less supportive of the current brand direction and range.
as it happens there are a number of other watches I like from other brands. Christopher Ward (JasH Bel Canto in particular, just a shame it was so limited), UN, Breguet, Farer etc.
as far as I'm aware, I haven't 'taken the fight' to any former employees and commented on MrBanks posts for reasons that I've explained in this thread.
Sums it up for me. Never questioned the quality but found the marketing a complete turn off.
Also wasn't that impressed when I went into the Mayfair boutique and saw some of the watches stuck on leather straps that were too narrow for the lugs. I'd expect attention to detail when paying a few thousand for a watch.
I saw similar in their Mayfair Boutique
The wrong bracelet on the wrong watch mounted back to front!
That took some effort!
Those reasons are mostly only your opinion and hardly based on facts. His initial answer was factual but he didn’t say what you wanted it to say so you took him to task. And if you read my post above you will see that I give the brothers the same credit as you do, but with my eyes opened.
And I only noticed you from the moment Bremont came to the market, and can’t remember you on C. Ward or other British brands like anOrdain.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
You just keep proving all my suspicions about you right.
Notwithstanding our various legitimate passions, could I suggest we all try and play the ball and not the man in this thread, since this ain't the bearpit?
I asked the question, I understood MrBanks' answer very well, so don't feel the need to rush in and translate on my account.
Decent quality, ridiculous prices and marketing.
The balloon was always going to pop.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Only April and he’s going full pelt for the Christmas bonus
Moving away from all the bitching and sniping and back to the watches. Sometimes a new release can be a grower but the more I see these the more I’m confused by the totally incoherent design. Oversized everything, a random badge that doesn’t mean anything to anyone including Bremont and so much busyness on the dial that it all looks quite comical and childlike.
I’ve never experienced a re-brand that appears to have gotten it so spectacularly wrong.
[IMG][/IMG]
Yes, I'm struggling to see any appeal with that particular model, particularly when it's £2500.
I dont think its that bad to be honest, I think I mentioned previously it reminds me a little of the Hamilton military watch though I think that cushion style case has been used a few times recently Farer have a cushion case.Moving away from all the bitching and sniping and back to the watches. Sometimes a new release can be a grower but the more I see these the more I’m confused by the totally incoherent design. Oversized everything, a random badge that doesn’t mean anything to anyone including Bremont and so much busyness on the dial that it all looks quite comical and childlike.
I’ve never experienced a re-brand that appears to have gotten it so spectacularly wrong.
[IMG]
The text appears big but I would assume not so much in real life photos, I really dont care about the logo I cant even remember what the previous one was so I doubt too many new buyers are going to really care.
I think this will be a simple case of lets wait and see.....
Yep, was thinking the same and I'd rather have the Hamilton version to be honest. I think that's where Bremont struggle because they've got no history. Hamilton can just reissue the pilot pioneer and we buy into the fact it's a close replica of the original vintage piece. Bremont don't have that ability. The watch isn't horrendous...maybe a bit too much text on the dial, but it does nothing for me.
Beaverbrooks Oxford
The same was at Beaverbrooks Bluewater. Didn’t get a picture as didn’t think anything of interest.
Beaverbrooks Oxford
Odd they also have a boutique store in Bluewater. No mention of sales or the new stock when I passed.
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Everywhere seems to have Bremont on sale. I'd hazard a guess they've been told to ditch the old stock ahead of the new range:
This looks rather good value for money.
https://www.goldsmiths.co.uk/Bremont...RoCZhoQAvD_BwE
If they'd kept the same design aesthetic, but dropped the prices to what they're on sale (Being jettisoned) for now this whole relaunch situation thing would have been a success.
Anyone who fancies dropping multiple £K on a Bremont at this current moment must be looking to get rid of some perfectly good cash, if so please PM me as I have some magical beans you may also be interested in.
Haven't looked today, but sale prices are so prevalent that a few days ago, WF had several models (used) for sale at higher than the new ones were from ADs............
They have certainly found out how to ruin the concept of premium on their watches.
MrBanks doesn't come across as disgruntled, much less as bitter, but more as someone who has seen how the sausage is made.
If it's any consolation Smiths watches were a loss-making operation all through the 1950s and '60s. Plus ca change.
And look how that worked out for them…
It was probably poorly worded. What I meant was that TAM had implied before that he was disgruntled and I was making the point that even if both him and Gary were, the fact that 2 obvious watch enthusiasts had left was a sign in itself.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
What, in 50 years' time Timefactors will be making them? Well, I guess that's kind of already happened: the new Bremonts carry the name but not much, if any, of the DNA. Perhaps Eddie's Smiths are closer to originals, at least in spirit, than these
I never much cared for Bremont's actual offerings but I wished them well in their aim of bringing watchmaking back to the UK. Seems like that ain't gonna happen now.
What's happened at Bremont is a symptom of a wider malaise. Things have changed since 2010 -- heck, since 2020. The watch market is definitely softening. It's not a South Sea bubble bursting, nor Tulip Fever breaking -- I'm not expecting a crash -- but unsustainable prices and, in the longer term, dodgy demographics, mean that the high has peaked.
Imho the days of watches as good investments are over. Buy what what you like and will wear but don't expect them to be appreciating assets.
Are people really checking up daily on the sale prices of Bremont watches? It’s almost like people want them to fail and will be disappointed if they don’t.
Bremont have always had sales on they were one of those brands that was a near permanent feature in online sales and a discount pretty easy to find. I remember a few years back considering getting one and someone on here said they could be sourced as a pretty substantial discount.
This will never leave me..
But I am very disheartened to see what has happened at Bremont & the change that we are now seeing; very sad.
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Bremont may do a TagHeuer. And, in a few years time ask the family back for advice, before introducing the "heritage" range using the old logo and design cues.
The brand has a track record of generating it's own history.
Wishful thinking, if only...the turn of events is rather sad to read, whatever your views BREMONT achieved a huge amount.
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Anyone who describes themselves as a "Creative Alchemist" really does need taking outside and given a damn good shoeing.
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
That makes for painful and slightly uncomfortable viewing.Anyone who describes themselves as a "Creative Alchemist" really does need taking outside and given a damn good shoeing.
It’s like the guy from changing rooms had a face lift
Chortle,,, dressed in his finest wizarding gown, standing in front of his magic mirror, Davide contemplates his next horological thaumaturgy.Anyone who describes themselves as a "Creative Alchemist" really does need taking outside and given a damn good shoeing.
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