How Hodinkee's Big Bet on a Watch Business Backfired

[abraxas]

How Hodinkee's Big Bet on a Watch Business Backfired
https://www.adweek.com/media/hodinkee-crown-caliber/#

[phil h]

I very rarely visit the site anymore. The article sums up the trust bit very well, with articles along the lines of ‘5 future classics currently flying under the radar’ which surprise surprise are all available in the Hodinkee shop and crap like ‘How to wear the Cartier blah blah blah’ it started to feel like I was only visiting it out of habit and being subject to stealth promotion. The new podcast was also awful.

[McBeardy]

I still enjoy a good Talking Watches but only 1 in 5 seem to be watchable with others just more money and the same watches.

I read all of James Stacey’s articles and when he goes I probably won’t visit the site much.


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[Jon Kenney]

According to five people. According to four people. According to two people. According to four people…

[JGJG]

According to five people. According to four people. According to two people. According to four people…

This is showing that they have not just single, potentially disgruntled etc, source in the business but multiple sources. These are relatively large numbers of people speaking.

- - - Updated - - -

How Hodinkee's Big Bet on a Watch Business Backfired
https://www.adweek.com/media/hodinkee-crown-caliber/#

Hard not to feel a sense of schadenfreude.

[Idontgram]

I don’t have any illl will towards hodinkee but I’ve long disliked their editorial style. It has a smug, upper middle class tone to it which gets under my skin. Ben Clymer going on about Tiffany stamped Pateks, Porsche 911s and playing golf in the Hamptons. Most of the others weren’t much better saying things like when I worked in finance or this Rolex makes a great 21st birthday present. I see they’ve tried to diversify by bringing in writers who know nothing about watches, which isn’t exactly a good move.

I also hold the popular view that you can’t review products you sell (objectively), no matter how much you separate editorial from sales teams.

Having said that, most watch media is enthusiast driven and it’s rare to read any review from an established outlet that says a watch is a POS. At worst, you might get something like ‘the clasp is basic but secure’ or ‘I would have liked to have seen this or that, at this price point’. It’s the established tension between product reviewers and companies which supply them with the substrate for their revenue.

[Gomers]

I don’t have any illl will towards hodinkee but I’ve long disliked their editorial style. It has a smug, upper middle class tone to it which gets under my skin. Ben Clymer going on about Tiffany stamped Pateks, Porsche 911s and playing golf in the Hamptons. Most of the others weren’t much better saying things like when I worked in finance or this Rolex makes a great 21st birthday present. I see they’ve tried to diversify by bringing in writers who know nothing about watches, which isn’t exactly a good move.

I also hold the popular view that you can’t review products you sell (objectively), no matter how much you separate editorial from sales teams.

Having said that, most watch media is enthusiast driven and it’s rare to read any review from an established outlet that says a watch is a POS. At worst, you might get something like ‘the clasp is basic but secure’ or ‘I would have liked to have seen this or that, at this price point’. It’s the established tension between product reviewers and companies which supply them with the substrate for their revenue.

^This. Hits the nail on the head for me. The founder’s overly smug musings do irritate me greatly these days. Fully appreciate the work he’s put in to get it to where it is now, but it just seems wrong now in that broken, corporate way. Eyes on the ultimate success story but the juggernaut rise has led to drop in quality, due diligence in reporting and it no longer fills the brief that it once did for me.

Talking Watches is a chore these days, as said above, perhaps 1 in 5 worth a look and HODINKEE Radio is tedious. That said, anything with James Stacey, I’m fine with. Appreciate his style, knowledge and he’s not averse to deviating from the party line opinions from time to time.


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[McBeardy]

I don’t have any illl will towards hodinkee but I’ve long disliked their editorial style. It has a smug, upper middle class tone to it which gets under my skin. Ben Clymer going on about Tiffany stamped Pateks, Porsche 911s and playing golf in the Hamptons. Most of the others weren’t much better saying things like when I worked in finance or this Rolex makes a great 21st birthday present. I see they’ve tried to diversify by bringing in writers who know nothing about watches, which isn’t exactly a good move.

I also hold the popular view that you can’t review products you sell (objectively), no matter how much you separate editorial from sales teams.

Having said that, most watch media is enthusiast driven and it’s rare to read any review from an established outlet that says a watch is a POS. At worst, you might get something like ‘the clasp is basic but secure’ or ‘I would have liked to have seen this or that, at this price point’. It’s the established tension between product reviewers and companies which supply them with the substrate for their revenue.

Guess that’s happens when LMVH are a large investor.

They’ve lost some good editors and writers in the last few years and as I’ve said before I generally only enjoy James Stacey.

Whilst Ben has done great work bringing it wear it is, it does feel far away from its starting point & more a lifestyle site.

I much prefer Fratello to read, and like what RJ has done. But agree finding negative reviews isn’t easy to come by - anywhere online.


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[Itsguy]

I’m more positive about them as I’ve always appreciated the stylish photography, the site / app is well designed, and their taste in vintage has generally been good. Some of their collaborations have been well thought out, though I wouldn’t personally want to wear their brand. Of course it’s hard for any site to combine access to new watches with honest reviews, even without selling them too. It sounds like they have been caught out by covid fuelled tulip-mania, assuming ‘investments’ in a passing fashion can only go one way. I’d throw the first stone if I hadn’t done the same myself. For better or worse, attachment to the shiny watches outweighed the impulse to sell in March ‘22.

In the end though, it’s hardly surprising that their site celebrating the joy of needless conspicuous consumption has suffered during a time of wars, inflation, recession and economic instability. Things may look different when we’re in the next boom, and everyone thinks things can only go up again. However it’s also possible that watches will never again seem quite as interesting as they did over the last decade or so.

As a footnote - I’m stunned to see some of the numbers in this piece, $100 million revenue for the combined operation in 2021, for what to me is some website I look at occasionally, and their second hand watch side hustle.

[wileeeeeey]

Hodinkee really was excellent and I still the ben Clymer talking watches videos.

However watching someone video review a gold AP diver for their a week on the wrist series, while demonstrating the practicalities of the watch using a micro scooter to commute, is genuinely pathetic and so far off their original course.

Ben cashed out and it shows but I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same in his position so it is what it is.

[Tokyo Tokei]

I wonder if that's it then? This being the canary in the coal mine. The oxygen in the watches-as-lifestyle pit finally running low. With no quick "investment" potential ("Any moons or mercurys?") watches just go back to being like a good suit. You need one, maybe two, but you don't need a daily update on every new trouser or blazer. At least, for most people.

[Oafley Jones]

Hodinkee really was excellent and I still the ben Clymer talking watches videos.

However watching someone video review a gold AP diver for their a week on the wrist series, while demonstrating the practicalities of the watch using a micro scooter to commute, is genuinely pathetic and so far off their original course.

Ben cashed out and it shows but I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same in his position so it is what it is.

Ben Clymer realised that selling to their audience was their goal incredibly early in the business. They moved away from an ad supported revenue model long before LVMH came on the scene. They were extremely upfront about this. They knew their audience, their value/wealth and that had an opportunity to exploit it. I think someone on here describing it as the 20 something cardigan wearing, trust fund brigade. Hodinkee sold a lifestyle.

It was never a place for critical reviews. I can recall maybe one, or two vaguely negative pieces in the decade that I've frequented the place. Hodinkee has a bigger problem than any downturn in the economy though. The perception of it has changed. That veneer of authenticity (key to being a taste maker) eroded by their ever more aggressive push into direct sales. Which was inevitable. It's barely above an inflight magazine these days in terms of content.

I won't miss it if it goes. I also found it incredibly irritating.

[Montello]

I generally think their collaborations were better than the stock items, but I'd never want a watch with Hodinkee on the watch.

e.g.

https://limited.hodinkee.com/blancpain/

https://limited.hodinkee.com/iwc/

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/ne...r-skipper-2023


Much as I like watches I don't want to read about them at the rate they produce content, I liked some of the SOTC type videos ...

[helidoc]

I won’t add to this beyond stating that apart from James Stacey, Hodinkee has been dead to me for quite a while. I do check out Fratello and sometimes post in the comments.

Posts #11 and #12 are very insightful

D


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[Wallasey Runner]

Never really followed any of these people, tend to do it the other way round. If I am researching a particular watch I will google to see who has done reviews and will read several of them if they are there or watch a video if one has been posted.

So watch based rather than organisation for me.

[Joppers]

They shouldn't have let Jack Forster go.

[pacifichrono]

Never really followed any of these people, tend to do it the other way round. If I am researching a particular watch I will google to see who has done reviews and will read several of them if they are there or watch a video if one has been posted.

So watch based rather than organisation for me.

Me too.

[JGJG]

I wonder if that's it then? This being the canary in the coal mine. The oxygen in the watches-as-lifestyle pit finally running low. With no quick "investment" potential ("Any moons or mercurys?") watches just go back to being like a good suit. You need one, maybe two, but you don't need a daily update on every new trouser or blazer. At least, for most people.

Ha - well put!

[LukeBird]

I’m more positive about them as I’ve always appreciated the stylish photography, the site / app is well designed, and their taste in vintage has generally been good. Some of their collaborations have been well thought out, though I wouldn’t personally want to wear their brand. Of course it’s hard for any site to combine access to new watches with honest reviews, even without selling them too. It sounds like they have been caught out by covid fuelled tulip-mania, assuming ‘investments’ in a passing fashion can only go one way. I’d throw the first stone if I hadn’t done the same myself. For better or worse, attachment to the shiny watches outweighed the impulse to sell in March ‘22.

In the end though, it’s hardly surprising that their site celebrating the joy of needless conspicuous consumption has suffered during a time of wars, inflation, recession and economic instability. Things may look different when we’re in the next boom, and everyone thinks things can only go up again. However it’s also possible that watches will never again seem quite as interesting as they did over the last decade or so.

As a footnote - I’m stunned to see some of the numbers in this piece, $100 million revenue for the combined operation in 2021, for what to me is some website I look at occasionally, and their second hand watch side hustle.

Basically that’s what switched me off from reading their stuff. It just didn’t appeal to me in the slightest.
There was something of the ‘Gas Dandy’ from Sniff Petrol in my opinion.

[snowman]

Never really followed any of these people, tend to do it the other way round. If I am researching a particular watch I will google to see who has done reviews and will read several of them if they are there or watch a video if one has been posted.

So watch based rather than organisation for me.

Ditto - To be honest, I haven't found many watch review YTers or sites that I like for long.

The only one I regularly watch is JOMW (and I know many people find Jody grating!) and I find Jory one of the most irritating, although I did watch this video.

I wonder how 'dandy about town' Teddy Bullsarare will fare now he's ventured into bricks and mortar stores - Am I alone in finding he's quite unknowledgeable? Even I can pick holes in most of his videos and I'm a total lightweight compared with many here.

To be honest, though, there's a finite supply of genuinely new or interesting watches, especially at the premium end.

Maybe that's why I can enjoy JOMW - The cheap end of the market is always churning out this month's watch, Rolex, Omega and the like are, at best tweaking colours, case dimensions or, more likely, increasing prices.

It comes as little surprise, then, that there isn't a great business model in talking about overpriced luxury goods and then trying to sell them for a premium off the back of positive reviews.

M

PS I was at Goodwood for the Members' Meeting yesterday - A nice day out, but it reminded me why I stopped going to Le Mans many years ago - Far too many corporate guests dressed as if they were going to Ascot for the races and with little or no interest in the cars. A lot of watch reviews smack of the same kind of people to me. I guess the yoof call it 'flexing'.

[Fullbreakfast]

I unsubscribed from their emails a while ago as it all just seemed to be luxury lifestyle bollocks that held no interest for me.