Reply With QuoteOriginally Posted by stefmcd
Should have specified in my original post, apologies.
Like most here I don’t need any more watches so I’ll just stick with the nice ones I already have, although I do have an interest in a couple of Grand Seikos and I was very well looked after by them when I visited the boutique in London.
Should have specified in my original post, apologies.
If you really want a Rolex Sub I suggest you keep your eye on the prize and keep chasing, don't be put off by the negative experience with the AD you dealt with. Whilst I accept that you're looking to enoy the buying experience, I don`t blame you for that, at the end of the day it's all about the watch.
Personally I`d buy the best used 5 digit Sub I could find, far nicer than the later versions in my opinion, but if your heart is set on the current model you should keep looking for one. Try another AD, try grey dealers, the market is moving in your favour and you may find you've got options in a few months time. Or maybe buy a nice Datejust instead?
Just buy one from a secondary dealer , it's worth the premium rather than waiting for years and being treated like crap by AD's
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I imagine an awful lot of people have been de-listing themselves lately….
I did raise my eyebrows to be informed about the certified pre-owned products, I don’t think they know how much older stuff I have!
I haven’t delisted my now 4.5 year old GMT BLRO expression, but I think that is shear bloody mindedness rather than actually wanting it.
I first saw it on a Goldsmiths colleague when I picked up my 16570 from service. When I went in to speak about my expression of interest 2 weeks ago, I noted with some irony that he was wearing a BLRO on Jubilee, while telling me how unobtainable they are. I looked at GS at another Goldsmiths last week, and as the GS expert wasn’t available, out came a Rolex manager wearing, you guessed it, a BLRO.
That’s unobtanium on the wrists of 3 different people in two different stores, make of that as you will. I challenged a senior colleague via email, and when he rang me, it’s “they work hard for it, and they have to wait like everyone else”. It isn’t a level playing field though is it?
Each time I noted it, I thought it looked obvious, shiny, and a bit vulgar. Pre-ceramic 4&5 digit is much more me. In my heart, I’m not really interested, but no one likes to be told they can’t buy something, so my expression of interest still hangs in there.
Maybe if I ever get such a call, I will look down at the classic watch on my wrist, purposeful yet subtle, smile, and politely turn them down.
Dave
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Tastes vary of course, but I'm with you on that. The introduction of ceramic bezels, and other fancy flourishes, marked the end of my interest in Rolex and Omega models. It was the end of an era of 'classy' watches imo.
Does anyone actually believe theres a magical waiting list? It’s all hor*eS*8t and people need to stop playing the rolex games. I cant for the life of me see why any AD would want rolex anymore…whats the point, come in and have a look at the lovely watches you cant buy. Went in to Goldsmiths Bristol recently and their rolex section takes up a good 1/3 of their showroom, they'd be better off filling it with Casios.
How, is the OP a watchmaker?
I’m with these gentlemen and the OP. Simple transaction at the checkout counter has nothing to do with the scenario of walking in a store looking for service. If you like disinterested monosyllable answers to your questions that’s fine by me. I know I prefer friendly and helpful service.
If you want Asda analogies imagine going in wanting help buying ingredients for a cake suitable for a guest with milk allergy. Employee stares at you blankly and says all they have is in the dairy section. The one at Lidl takes you to the approriate shelf, asks about the condition of your guest and locates several suitable products for you and explains the differences in a generally friendly and helpful way. Either store doesn’t offer coffees or headpatting at the checkout counter. Which one are you happy with?
+1. I de-listed last month when I received a call offering me the watch I’d put my name down for 18 months previously. Lost interest basically.
Agreed, with the OP on this. It’s lack of service / interest displayed by a lot of places rather than bad service IME.
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I was irritated in Goldsmiths last week. Went in to check on the status of my Explorer w/l to be informed I was removed from the list last year. I have no idea why, but I imagine it was a lack of contact from me - it has been several years so I had almost forgotten about it. So I had a nice long chat with an attractive but clueless young lady who admitted she was pretty new and hadn't spent much time on the Rolex counter. She let me try on several display pieces but they didn't have any 36mm Explorers in house. OFC she offered me a few 36mm from the CPO catalog but as they all started above RRP I politely declined. She also said I would need an appointment with the Rolex specialist if I wanted to be put back on the list.
So I made an appointment and went back 3 days later. At the specified time of my appointment the Rolex specialist was not available...
So another random chap appeared after 20 minutes to speak with me and apparently he was able to put me on the list - making me think the first girl just didn't know how to do it rather than need a specific person.
Overall, a complete waste of my time. Only positive I can report is that they brought me a cup of (weak) tea while I was waiting. Honestly, the price has gone up by over a grand since I listed, I'm not even sure I'll buy it when/if they ever call any more.
In comparison, I popped into the Brietling store and 2 SA were like seagulls after a chip. I tried on 4-5 pieces and was served a nice latte while we chatted about multiple brands, work, the fact they both emigrated here from Thailand (where I have visited twice), etc etc. Didn't really take to anything I saw though, although there was a pistachio faced chronograph that for me was the pick of the bunch.
You and countless others.
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But you're not buying it, and you weren't buying it yesterday at 9.50am either.
You went into a watch shop, knowing there was nothing for you to buy, to check that you were still on a "list" to buy something that wasn't available.
I know it's frustrating as a customer, but how frustrating do you think it is to have multiple visits per day from people exactly like you - who aren't in to buy anything bar the unobtainable.
I feel sorry for the salespeople.
While some are absolutely delighted to chat watches and have a working knowledge - a lot of them in AD's haven't got a clue and dont give a rats about our trinkets. It's a job, and it must be a really boring one when the only thing that people are really hot about buying is the thing they cant walk out of store with.
Yes, I'm sure we can say "well they should make an effort!" and yes, in an ideal world i'm sure they should but high street jewellers tend to be low wage, low incentive, and the daily grind is the same whether they're selling watches diamonds cars windows or milk.
I expect when you've seen the Rolex list routine ten times a day or more you learn the pavlovian response that there is little point in offering other watches when your visitors "drop by" to see if they've moved up the list for a Sub/GMT/Daytona.
They're not interested in seeing Tags - you weren't interested in seeing Tags either but felt that you should have been offered some alternatives because you want to be fluffed and have an experience, while at the same time not spending any money - because the watch you want isn't there, and once it is there, it requires absolutely no effort to sell because that work has already been done by the brand and the hype.
TBH I think it's probably better if Rolex end up going boutique only as it would put a divide between the just dropping in about my Rolex non customers and people who are interested in other brands and might buy when they visit.
Alternatively - market prices are dropping, Subs are plentiful on the grey market and TZ, so if the AD experience has been less than attentive go grey or go SC - most of which are manned by people who actually love watches and are happy to shoot the breeze about them.
Ill add my own name to "irritated in goldsmiths the other week" - was dropping of a repair and it took two sales people to log it in, one says "umm what sort of movement is it?" the other one shrugs, I say "automatic" and the salesman gave me a really patronising laugh and said "well theyre all automatic" at which point the other one says "yes but is it manual automatic or quartz automatic"
I decided not to assist further.
These are the people who are expected to chat watches with customers
The longer that (enjoyable) post went on, verv, the more you seemed to be agreeing with the OP ...
I absolutely agree with "don't like the service don't use the shop" but at the same time think that it's all a bit precious.
From what I've understood from the thead, there are no new watches you can buy there and then from a Rolex AD. Is that correct?
R
Ignorance breeds Fear. Fear breeds Hatred. Hatred breeds Ignorance. Break the chain.
Possibly none that most would want to buy.
Yeah to me also that is the only way V's example 'works'...
To be honest most jobs will have a perk associated with them and if that's their perk(getting to buy a BLRO) good luck to them.
As it looks like they're discontinuing them you won't get the call and neither will I.
There is no excuse for a sales assistant to treat someone with disrespect or being rude.
Showing a lack of interest is another matter. Not pleasant but if one is actually getting a watch, it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me. When I buy a watch, I don’t want a fuss but one does expect basic courtesy.
Unfortunately, many times sales people seem to lacking in these when they are selling something in demand or is coveted. I am surprised people are still waiting 3 years for a Sub!
I am sure many people might be passing over these days now that market is not sizzling hot for a lot of models but doubt most would make an effort to delist.
To play devil's advocate somewhat, I worked at a rolex AD in the late 2000s when the green Milgauss, original Sub LV and pre-ceramic Daytona were the only real unobtainable watches. I have to say we fielded calls all day long for those three watches and the majority just chancers who wanted a watch to flip. On occasion we'd get a call from someone chucking their weight around, demanding a watch from the next consignment, threatening to take themselves off the wait list because they had waited so long and felt it was their turn.
I don't for a minute suggest that's what the OP has done here but spare a thought for the staff as well... any enquiry on a Rolex sports watch at the moment must just set their bells ringing.
Hopefully the waiting lists are all but fulfilled at this point. God knows if that's the case but it's become a complete joke through the collectors groups, general public and industry as a whole. Surely its cost them more in goodwill than they have hoovered up in this stupid investment bubble from the past few years.
What is OFC, CPO and SA?
But surely it's their/your job to deal with customer enquiries, even the throw their weight around types, pretty soft ride I'd think...Presumably going into the role you were aware of Rolex, the Brand, how they play their game...
I'm assuming there's no commission or bonus for AD sales staff, which seems a weird way to conduct a sales-driven business?
Of Course?
No idea........could be 3CPO dunno
Sales Assistants
Ofcourse, Certified Pre Owned, Sales associate.
Ah, I see. I prefer the idea of a CP3O catalogue…
I have every sympathy with the OP.
I had a different but equally useful experience with the Tudor boutique here in Bristol (which is, as far as I know, also Goldsmiths owned)
I put my name down for a watch that they assured me they could get hold of very quickly, which was stupid as I had also bought Tudor from Fraser Hart, locally, and I should have stuck with them.
Anyhow, I was assured that I was first on the list, as they had one for sale that day which was already spoken for, and one that they had to keep for customers to view. I was next.
The guys knew me in there anyhow as we have met a few times at Redbar events.
I was not asked for a deposit, or anything else.
After some weeks, I realised I had not had a call, so I rang them, just to check on how quickly the model was being rolled out.
I was informed that at least 3 other examples had been sold through the boutique, and that I had not been rung as I had no "trading record" with them (they were a brand new store at this time, so this was clearly a record with all of Goldsmiths).
I was told I was still "on the list", but not where, nor how many more times I might be passed over.
So I asked them to take me off the list.
I will certainly try not to buy from a Goldsmiths owned store again.
In a world where service and relationships is important, the only thing to do is to vote with your feet if it doesn't feel right.
Having read all of the above I think I'll pop round to our 'local' and see if I can be put on the list for a double Jonny Walker Red Label. I've been in there regularly and they never seem to have it, so it must be quite rare and special. They do have the likes of Lagavulin 16yo, The Macallan 15yo and Kilchoman Machir Bay which, I'm told by experts in the field, are far better Whiskies. But if I have to go on a list to get it then it MUST be batter Whisky mustn't it?
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Silly question......could Rolex manufacture enough watches to fulfil world-wide demand if it wanted to? Or is supply genuinely an issue?
They are about to or have just opened another factory as capacity was restricted, although they still produce over a million watches a year at the moment
Last edited by Sinnlover; 29th February 2024 at 19:10.
Not so much silly as impossible to know as we don't know how long their waiting lists are, nor how many of those on lists genuinely still want the watch and have the money.
Many on lists would've been people who wanted a watch that increased in value significantly when they left the shop. That's not the case now for many models.
Introspection would warn me that demanding great service by whatever yardstick you choose may be an early sign of overinflated self importance.
I fully agree with Verv. A customer goes in to buy something that is not for sale. The staff treat them respectfully but nonchalantly, the customer is offended that they didn’t get a full “ooh, suits you, Sir!” encounter.
On the balance of probabilities, the staff are some poorly trained folk trying to make a living. A sub may well be 1/3rd of their yearly wage (or more) and they have to put up with people getting upset that they’re not made to feel special when they’re not actually there to buy anything other than the thing they can’t buy.
I imagine people get upset when mini cab drivers don’t put their luggage in the boot for them or wait staff can’t tell them about the menu in detail.
The less fluff the better but I guess everyone is different.
To start with having things on display that are not for sale isn’t part of a shop’s brief. It’s not a museum, the clue is in the name. Imagine a restaurant where none of the main dishes would be available despite being on the menu.
So if it’s not available to buy, and you don’t want to have people asking about it, don’t have it. And if you think that treating people who cross your threshold badly because they want to buy something you don’t sell is proper, you are missing the point and an opportunity to sell yourself to the customer, to establish a rapport and thus benefit from the footfall that the watches you don’t have draws into your premises. It is very likely that you won’t sell on the day as the customer will have to digest the frustration your answer comes with. But treated rightly he may come back for other things. Treated like an annoyance you can rest assured he will make a point of going elsewhere.
Second it’s not the customer’s problem if the staff is poorly trained. I do agree though that it’s not the staff responsibility either: if you need to make a fuss, have a go at the manager. It will achieve nothing other you than being asked more or less politely to leave, but at least you’ll have spoken to the right person.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 1st March 2024 at 11:03.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
To me this whole system is completely bizarre: "I've been on the waiting list for this mass produced trinket for three years now, but then they took me off of said list because I forgot to interact with them on a regular basis". That's some dystopian sh*t right there, that's not capitalism either, that's waiting ten years for your new Trabant, IF you behave accordingly meanwhile.
Rolex forte compared to a lot of other brands was and almost just in time production/supply to AD’s, even when demand wasn’t that high. The AD had stock, sometimes years old for certain slow moving models, but more popular watches had a short wait. I’m sure they could replicate that again easily, even when they have their new facilities fully operational - as overall worldwide demand has increased substantially.
It's just a matter of time...
Thanks for that. Though I presume you mean 'you're not sure they could replicate......'
They are making watches, not attempting nuclear fusion.....
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
The point of annoyance is more they ask you to call in whilst on an indefinite wait list … then cant be bothered with you when you do so … if they don’t want you cluttering up their shop don’t ask us to call in.
Anyway, I’m not bothered anymore as I’m not playing the game anymore.
100%, it's shop not a cult.................er.......
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
It would be interesting to see that applied to a romantic relationship where one side forgets the other sides birthday or an anniversary.
I like to socialise. If I went in to a shop of any type I would attempt small talk with the staff. If they reciprocated in an amicable way then it would encourage me to shop there again. If they didn't, it wouldn't stop me buying there but if there were two shops selling similar products and in one of the shops the staff appeared more friendly than the other I'd be more inclined to use that shop. A feeling of self importance may be but in the same way, if someone walked in to my shop, I'd happily talk with them about a subject of their choice, more than likely something related to the products I was selling. That's sales. Unfortunately with so much online shopping and people communicating through electronic devices, we seem to have forgotten that simple skill of conversation. May be if we all talked a little more then less people would feel as the OP did or worse?
.or wait staff can’t tell them about the menu in detail
That's a pretty big red flag to me.
Agree.
While a dssd, or explorer ii vaguely pique my interest occasionally, this kind of shenanigans puts me right off their product. Couple that with a long history of disingenuous marketing and, personally, the Rolex name is too tarnished for me to want to spend money on.
It's a shame you had a negative experience with them. I had to call in to the last week to collect a watch I sent in for repair and the staff were great as usual. I'm not a huge spender with them, but have bought a few watches from them inc Sub, GMT and EXP2. I think it can depend a lot on the AD and the staff there. The AD I use have always been helpful and seem to do their best with the stock they do get. And they seem to appreciate people who don't flip each watch they get.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Demand now or if they could be simply bought? Demand would be a lot less in the later case.
I’d have thought he’d have wanted to have a chat if there was no one else in the shop. Must be boring as sin sitting waiting around all day.
If a Rolex sport model was easily available it wouldn’t be so desirable for a number of those on the lists I suspect.
But yes, it would be easy enough to upscale production I’d have thought if they wanted to.
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