Reply With QuoteIf we're going to list brands people are talking less about then you might as well list every brand there is. Clearly the market is down and people are less willing to buy watches in general.
Couldn’t move for threads on GS a couple of years ago and their endless new releases.
Is there any love for GS anymore?
If we're going to list brands people are talking less about then you might as well list every brand there is. Clearly the market is down and people are less willing to buy watches in general.
Both Tudor and Grand Seiko being in the top 10 watches listed in the Friday threads would indicate here is still a lot of love for both brands.
The ‘Show your grand seiko thread’ is also constantly on the first page of the forum with people adding their latest purchase would also indicate they are still popular.
I guess we don’t need multiple threads about the same thing.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 25th February 2024 at 16:40.
Right now on the first page there’s a ‘Show your Grand Seiko’ thread, and a thread about the GS Snowflake.
Yep, watch buzz is a fraction of pre 2023. Stagnation describes the whole market. It would be the worst time ever to release any inspired models, hardly anyone would notice.
People got bored of the endless new models and the fact they were all very similar also they drop 50% on the secondary
Sent from my Pixel 6 using TZ-UK mobile app
Is that a reason to buy/not to but a watch now then…it has to hold at least 50% of its value?Originally Posted by misterzero
If something looks good it comes home with me…couldn't give a rats arse about future values.
Or not a reason to abandon any discussion about these watches. Talk is free.
It is clear that hype is more important than horology.
Personally yes, I wouldn't buy a watch new that I expected to lose 50% of it's value. If it drops >50% of it's value and I want it, then I'd buy it used and save more than half the price. Big difference between looking for a profit versus just expecting decent value retention IMO.
Unfortunately someone always has to buy them new in order for someone else to buy them at a discount pre-owned. Good job we all don't think the same.
Unfortunately I think that there seems to be an abundance of 'obsessed flippers' these days. People who must buy a watch then either can't afford to or can't be bothered to hold on to it for more than ten minutes. These people need to either turn a profit or manage a small loss in order to keep their potential addiction going. Certainly seems more prevalent at the lower value end of the market but applies to higher value brands as well to a lesser extent. Losing half the value of the watch would be an absolute no-no for these people.
Then I think you and me are in to watches for very different reasons
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll buy a watch because I like it. Not for its potential resale value.
As previously mentioned someone has to buy it new.
The last time I bought new was 40 years ago - I never buy new these days, why would you?.
If value retention is a primary driver then it's clouding the choices - so much ebb and flow.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Not in the least. If we all thought like me, products that lost 50%+ as you walk out the door would simply cost less new...
As this seems to be pointed at least in part at me, I'll counter with I think it's bizarre to applaud throwing money at the wall. If something loses more than half it's value, you simply overpaid.
See above. I think you're struggle to differentiate buying well with flipping/profiting.
I still see benefit in buying new and being the first owner of a thing personally. That's worth a premium to me, just not a 50%+ premium.
You really think that's how things work? Almost everything loses a lot of value the moment that it's pre-owned. Cars are the most obvious one, electric cars especially it seems. It doesn't matter how much something costs new, the same applies.
No idea, I haven't got a clue how you make your watch purchases but if it does apply to you then why make so many watch purchases to then sell on, regardless of how much they cost you and the loss or gains made?
Over the years the majority of my watches have been used or vintage and loved most of them but last year I bought two brand new Citizens and it did feel good to be the first owner one of which has fast become a favourite, I don't have to worry about resale value either as neither will be sold in the foreseeable future.
New comes at a premium sure, and deservedly so, but as stated previously 50%+ is an unpalatable premium. It's really not hard to avoid that. Even if you never intend to sell it, why pay twice-or-more of it's market worth? Buy two watches.
It's a valid point and something that was constantly mentioned to me before I purchased my first car. Why pay the extra if you don't have to? Someone has to of course and then sell the item otherwise there isn't the option to buy pre-owned. Some people just want something that's theirs and no one else has owned, may be because it has no wear and tear damage and the owner knows how it has been looked after. Maybe it's simply because they can afford to. People who want to save money generally need to or used to have a need to that's engrained into them.
Simply put, every watch that's sold has to be purchased at or close to retail first which means that there are millions of watch owners who buy new. Given that a percentage of those will never sell their watch, then the number buying pre-owned is the minority. Curious don't you think?
Other than the movement, I've never understood the fuss. With the availability of smartphones, quartz, COSC, radio-controlled, etc., I see no need for greater accuracy in a wristwatch. Aesthetically, I have never seen a GS I'd want on my wrist...honestly!
Well I only buy new, have two Grand Seikos and am thinking of getting a third so GS isn’t quite dead as far as I’m concerned. Have made a few mistakes so sold on at a loss but not bothered. Thing is - in the 5K - 9K bracket, can’t really find a better finish or movement that floats my boat.
I buy watches to wear them, so buying new makes no sense for me, when I can buy a close to mint example at approaching half price. It's been my experience that many watches bought new are seldom worn, because of their 'newness', but I can be more relaxed as it's not a 'new' watch anymore.
In which case I look forward to a huge discount
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time it's enemy action."
'Populism, the last refuge of a Tory scoundrel'.
Not dead to me at all. I bought a quartz one new last year and it constantly delights me. I would like to add a Spring Drive, but GS haven’t yet made the one for me, yet.
D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A strange idea, GS seems to be a very popular brand round here, not far behind Rolex and Omega. Partly because they keep feeding the internet with new ideas and images. How often do you see Breitling, Longines, Rado, Girard Perregaux, Breguet, or a dozen other brands mentioned?
Are you talking about Rolex now?
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
It is far from dead but the interest in Grand Seikos has gone down significantly and more than the general downturn in the market can account for. I have a friend who is a GS dealer and he says inquiries and sales have gone down by a lot in second half of 2023. Know a lot of collectors who used to have a bunch of GSs who have liquidated all of their GS collections. GS still remains quite popular on TZ-UK though. Try selling a GS on secondary market ( barring a couple of popular models) and the situation will be obvious.
My feel, still popular but they've not had a watch with the same wow factor and noise that the snowflake had for some time, plus their sports watches are all large to very large and this slightly bucks the recent trend. Perhaps part of the reason for a dip in interest?
I think you mean speculators.
Collectors tend not to have this reaction.
How would speculating on GS work if they don't go for multiples of RRP on the secondary market?
Have I missed something?
Speculation isn’t totally confined to multiples of RRP.
Anyone can speculate that the resale value won’t fall significantly if bought second hand.
Speculators invest to profit.
Anyone buying new can hope that they dont get significantly bent over if they need to sell, but thats not the same thing as speculating.
Maybe the bought the GS cheaply on the second hand market with a view that prices would increase.
Liquidating all GS watches when prices start to fall does not feel like an activity of a collector
Prices are falling because instead of buying collectors are liquidating as there's a cost of living crisis and economic uncertainty.
Peoples priorities are changing, and the first watches to be hit with a priority change are the ones you buy "in addition" to your keepers/will not sells.
True it must be new first, but you’ve changed the goalposts there as these millions of watches are presumably not all worth less than half after walking out of the shop. 20% premium on new? Sure, palatable. 50%+? Not for me, but YMMV of course!
Also I think affordable watches are a different market to brands like Grand Seiko. I doubt a Fossil holds much value, but I also doubt people much care when spending 50 quid on a watch. So there’s a level of materiality for sure. Also longevity; I wouldn’t begrudge a watch falling 50% over years of wear and tear.
For what it’s worth, the vast majority of watches I’ve owned have been bought new, many of which have lost money, but a much more palatable amount.
All just in my opinion of course.
Not at all dead for me, like and enjoy them as much as I always did.
Perhaps humans have always been like this, whether it's the FOMO effect, or simply missing profit. But it seems people want some things when they're high in value, but don't want them when they're lower again. I personally like when watches are lower in price (even if it means my 'assets' have lost value), as I'm a nett buyer rather than seller.
I think Grand Seiko were one that really got dragged along on the covid boom wave of lots more people open to spending money on Veblen goods and are now seeing the flip side of that. But they and their watches are as good as they've always been, and in good place once this correction rebalances.
Two enthusiastic GS threads on the first page of Watch Talk, so clearly dead yes
Regarding the whole new GS or not. When I decided I wanted a SBGN003 quartz GMT, i did look at used options, and the price of those was about £1800 as opposed to to the new price of its successor of £2950, the 003 having been discontinued. One of the joys of GS is the finishing, and that includes the case finishing. All the used ones had some kind of damage, ding on the bezel, scuff on the case sides, so denying the purchaser the joy or perfection. I managed to get a BNIB from Japan for a hefty saving with it pristine case intact. One day I will scuff or ding it, but not yet, not yet.
Case finished unencumbered by owner carelessness has value to me, even if that costs.
What proportion do GS have of the luxury market anyway? 45000 watches a year, less than 5% of Rolex's production. As Tim Mosso has said, they are a brand for contrarian watch geeks. Embrace it!
D
Posting Permissions
