Reply With QuoteI would throw a Merc C63s coupe into the mix with those, or a left field option would be a lotus Evora.
Weekend Car
Looking for some thoughts and inspriation from the TZ crowd!
I currently have a Porsche 718 Boxster S as a weekend car. Its a great car in almost every respect, but I would feel a 4-seater (2+2 would be fine!) more practical and consequently I think I would use it more. The Boxster has only done about 1000 miles in the past 11 months!
I've done some reaseach already and formulated the following list of cars that under consideration...
Porsche 911 997 2S or 4S
Porsche 911 996 Turbo
Porsche 911 997 Turbo (stretching the budget here I think)
BMW 1M Coupe
Audi TTRS Coupe
Nissan GTR
I would like opinons on what I should be considering regarding any of the above models from an ownership perspective and of course welcome ideas of anything else of a similar vein that I have maybe overlooked. I have a relatvely small single garage so the GTR would be a snug fit to say the least, so nothing bigger than that. In the 11 months I've had the Boxster, it has depreciated at an alrming rate, so suggestions for cars that might not be quite so painful in this regard would also be very welcome! Budget would be upto c.£45k
Looking forward to your responses :)
I would throw a Merc C63s coupe into the mix with those, or a left field option would be a lotus Evora.
The 1M is a great option for special and solid retention
How about a DB9, Rapide or a Continental GT?
I think a TTRS is not really a 4-seater. I had a Mk2 TTS for quite a while and the rear seats fall more into the 'decorative' catergory than anything else. You can fit one adult in the back if they sit side saddle (IE seated behind the driver, legs behind the passenger seat) but only for short journeys, it's really not very comfortable at all. I'm not even that tall and there was no leg room behind me on the drivers side.
I'm biased but I'm going to throw a suggestion of an E9X M3 out there - great engine, naturally aspirated high revving V8. For your budget you will have choice of the best examples - an E90 (saloon) is unlikely to depreciate much due to the rarity. They do like quite a bit of super unleaded though.
Having driven a few of your list, by way of work, not ownership , sadly, my choice would be a 997 GTS manual, either 2 or 4wd. The front wheel drive on a 4 can be disconnected by raising the handbrake a notch, it seems.
I’d put 911 rear seats into that position too! Guess it’s more fold flat space to carry bags etc. Frunk on the 911 visually looks the same dimensions as a cayman / Boxster I’ve not measured, but I guess the OP using the rear seats gets better space vs an actual boot on the 718.Originally Posted by AlphaEchoAlpha
Niece wants us to bring soft archery in the summer, meant a lovely drive through twisty country roads in the Smart, as the 981s couldn’t fit the target in! Might be ordering her one to keep at theirs before next summer!
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BMW M4 / M3?
Toyota GR86
Last edited by andy tims; 13th February 2024 at 18:44.
Andy
Wanted - Damasko DC57
Good point - if it's purely for storage, the TT is a bit of a tardis. I made a new boot-floor for mine which sat a bit higher to take a space-saver under it, and, with the rear seats folded, still managed to fit two road bikes into it! I'll caveat my next point with the fact I've not driven a TTRS, but I found my Mk2 TTS a bit devoid of character. A brilliant daily, able to make significant progress in almost any conditions but it just didn't feel very special. Whether the 5-pot found in the RS would tip the balance I'm not sure. The cabin of both the Mk2 and Mk3 TTs are lovely places to be too.
I have been looking at 911's too. I personally would stay away from anything 996 as they look very dated now.
For the 997's, when you read up the recommendation it to go 2009+ i.e. the .2 version with the 3.8 engine as the other engine has known issues.
Interestingly, a 997 Turbo is pretty much the same price as a 991 4s, which makes a difficult choice in my head. I have always wanted a turbo 911, but would a slightly slower newer model make more sense?
Forgot to add, another couple for you.
Ferrari California
Maserati GranTurismo / GranCabrio (same engine as the Ferrari, but much better priced car)
Audi R8 V8, these are cheap as chips now and a lot of car for the money.
Rapides can't get much cheaper than now surely. Even a v12 db7 still commands mid 20s and £30-35k will get you a rapide. £40-45k an S which is the better car.
If I could justify having one I would, not had a v12 yet, just lots of v8s.
I have a 1M for almost exactly the reasons you describe. If you want a really really special car; that's rare as hen's teeth; that can carry four adults; can fold the seats flat and take a bike inside; has reasonable running costs and is also brilliant fun to drive hard then its hard to look past a 1M.
Sadly mine is for sale as an old injury is making driving a manual more and more difficult. I sorned it for winter but will be servicing it next month and advertising it.
Be more original...
Alfa Romeo 1750/2000 GTV.
Lotus Elan (possibly +2s)
I’d not really considered the C63 for a couple of reasons…one being that I think it might be a bit on the big side for the garage and two, because I’ve always had Merc company cars and I worry my “special” weekend car wouldn’t feel quite so special as a result. I will take a closer look though.
Another solid recommendation! I’m not too familiar with the M3 models, pros and cons of each generation etc so maybe a little more reading up is needed.
Thankfully for this exercise, good MPG is not a consideration and I can sleep at night knowing that my carbon emissions will be offset by having a daily driver EV from mid year this year😊.
The usability of the rear seats for adults isn’t too important as it will be very infrequent they’ll be used for adults. More probable that the dogs will be strapped in instead so they can enjoy the road trips into the countryside too! Not really suitable to have a pair of doggos on the passengers lap in a Boxster!
First world problem I fully appreciate
Seems we’re on a similar path.
Ive read a fair bit about the 911. The 996 is, I agree, looking a little dated externally, but it was the poster car of my youth, a proper dream motor that somehow is now in reach, so is tempting for that reason, amongst others. The 997 gen 1 cars have much talk of engine concerns, IMS bearings and bore score, but this was not a concern for the gen 1 turbo that inherited the Metzger engine, the last to do so.
Ferrari California might not fit the garage and I’d be scared of extortionate maintenance.
Not considered the Maserati, need to read up.
Love the Audi R8, but only 2 seats 🫤.
I have had a few Mercs and the C63 is very special in comparison to most (had mine for 3 years and I usually swap cars after less than a year!). The coupe is quite wide but not silly, and there’s always the saloon or estate if you want real practicality and a narrower stance. I suggest a test drive
On another note; the v8 m3 is a good shout, I had the hard top convertible version and it was a lot of fun. With the roof down it sounded amazing. Fantastic engine but not that quick unless you keep the revs high.
Prior to the Boxster I had a Datsun 260z and classics do appeal to some degree. I’ll probably come full circle and end up back in classic again, but the next one will be more on the modern side. Cheers for the suggestions though 👍
When you put it like that, it’s the perfect choice. I recall seeing the advert for yours but wasn’t in the market at the time. When you’re ready to advertise again, let me know and if I’ve not got sorted, maybe we could talk more.
I've had my 997 Turbo for four years, so happy to answer any questions. Epic car, and your budget would be perfect for a Tiptronic, however, for the same money I'd recommend a manual 996 Turbo over that any time. Manuals tend to hold value far more, so unless there is a specific reason to want an auto, I wouldn't.
What about an M2 Comp? Gen 1 is now well within your budget and much better looking than the new one.
I toyed with an idea of a GTR a few years ago, but concluded that the novelty would wear off very quickly.
as mentioned above, I'd consider 996 turbo (X50 if possible) but if going BMW, why not a properly sorted e46 M3/M3cs?
Have you considered an AMG GT if it will fit in the garage, they are great cars and good fun to drive
A true left-field choice -
Lexus LC500 V8.
______
Jim.
Hi Phil,
This is a nice position to be in. I went through this whole thought process a few years ago and decided on a GTR as I wanted something that was truly special and which had fantastic handling and a special engine. It has never disappointed me, it is a real adrenaline machine. Raw in feel and from a different time.
What is your budget for this toy?
I went through a long process of elimination before deciding on the GTR. A Porsche is the default choice but I didn't want the badge or image, even turning down a lucky GT4 allocation at the time when they were hard to get. I see someone has suggested M3's but if you want a car that is a throwback and is truly special, I would be looking at the Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio. Perhaps an Audi R8, AMG GT, or an Evo IX. All offer completely different ownership experiences so it comes down to what you want from the car?
Be careful with the suggestion of an M3 with the S65 V8 in it.
I know that the IMS bearing in the 996 and early 997 911s causes potential buyers anxiety, but the potential for the S65 to lunch itself is very real.
I know this from personal experience...I had an E63 M6 with the S85 N/A V10 engine in, which is very closely related to the V8 S65 from the E90.
I got 'lucky' with a snapped valve spring on one cylinder. Lucky because the valve didn't drop into the cylinder and wreck the piston and the head. Also lucky because a friend runs a BMW independent and was able to sort it at trade rates.
My luck ran out though when it became clear the affected cylinder was the rearmost one on the driver's side bank. As the engine is sat way back in these platforms, that meant the whole engine and front subframe had to be dropped to access it. Whilst they were at it I had the rod bearings done as a precaution. If you think the chocolatey valve springs are a potential cause for concern, do a search on rod bearings for the S65/85. The oiling is marginal at the bottom of the crank, and the bearings can fail catastrophically and leave you in need of most likely an exchange rebuilt engine, which will then further dent your car's value as it no longer has matching numbers.
Then there's the Vanos failures, throttle actuator failures, etc., etc.
Unless you plan to do a load of preventative maintenance and rarely drive it, I wouldn't bother with this generation of M3 unless you are a hardcore BMW fan.
Last edited by j0hnbarker; 14th February 2024 at 13:23.
Thanks for the vote for the GTR - good to hear actual ownership feedback.
The Alfa hasn't been considered, so I'll take a look. I am not a fan of the Evo unfortunately and both the R8 and AMG GT are only 2-seaters, so not in the running for this task!
Sure thing. Its booked in for an oil service on 4 Mar so will be getting it ready for sale after that.
You may want to watch the market unfold before trading up as the Porkers market is having a minor meltdown.
https://youtu.be/9r9uIzbtdUU?feature=shared
That's a very different market to what the OP is considering. That is nearly new used cars which have been readjusting as the supply has eased and people have got out of their finance deals, etc. Throughout the pandemic people got the impression that new cars not depreciating, or even gaining value, was the new norm, which it was never going to be, so all of those (mass produced) Porsches bought on finance deals, etc. are now dropping to where they would have naturally been as no one wants to pay new car prices for a used car now that new cars are easier to get.
That prompted me to have a look at GTR values compared to when I was looking back in 2019. I have to say I am surprised at how well they've held up. I wanted a 2012+ facelift car and they started at £45k at the time for a car with under 40k miles. Looking on Autotrader, and excluding the Cat S £45k car, the cheapest 2012 is £49k with 61000 miles.
Good thinking. I spent a day in one when my IS was in for service, and I've never seen a car turn so many heads that's not a Lamborghini/Ferrari etc.
It was epic, will no doubt be built to last forever and you could use it as much or as little as you wanted.
The 997 GTS would tick many boxes, but sadly probably out of reach budget wise.
What line of work allows you to drive so many such cars, if you don’t mind me asking?
What will the back seats be used for? If it’s transporting humans, the 911 is a push.
M2 comp? Brilliant things.
Very left field, but the Yaris GR is a mighty fun little thing.
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I've been in this situation. Went in a different direction. Fast estate and a Caterham 7. I have 2 boys, now 18 and 16. I've had the Caterham for 16 years. The combination of a reasonably quick daily and a fun weekend car has worked for most of the time. The 7 is a keeper.
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I’m surprised that this hasn’t been mentioned yet (and apologies if I have missed it) but if you’re looking for a +2 with driving dynamics which would put most of the other options to shame, how about a…
Lotus Evora?
Look again at the second post!
Well, I have posted the ad ready for next week (when it will be off-SORN and serviced). Its on PH: https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16297097
Prices seem to have edged up over the winter, hence the new price, however, if I sell through TZ-UK I'll stand by the last price I advertised on here.
a Lotus Evora would be my choice. Owned one for 3 years. Prices barely moved in last few years.
Absolutely brilliant car.
The Yaris is a great car, and I love mine. It can fit 4 at a push, but for short journeys I’d say (I’m never going to fit in the back though lol).
That said I’d like go for the 997 Turbo. It’s bound to climb in value over the years, and styling wise is just right imo. Might cost a little more to get a nice one, but I can’t see too many downsides.
It's just a matter of time...
Its even made the front page of Pistonheads by virtue of the fact that it's a car that has actually been driven!
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-...ate-area/48253
Yes they asked my permission to run that.
I'd be interested to know whether it generates more enquires, and hopefully a sale, after being featured on their home page.
Admittedly biased but I'd go for a 996 turbo. 4 seats, all the performance you could ever need and depreciation shouldn't be an issue. I think the design is aging well now and arguably has more personality than the 997.
This one looks like a cracker, and I think it looks great in this colour. If possible appreciation is a factor, does originality matter?
https://www.pieperformance.co.uk/car...and-much-more/
That 996 Turbo looks like a good car at a good price. Probably had blown turbos so they decided to upgrade, being done that late in its life. However, I would question some of those mods as they don't match up with Turbo Dynamics prices or claims. TD claim 550+. Mezger engine can take it, but can the rest of the components in a 24 year old car? Porsche's own 996 X50 had 450bhp and 997 GT2 was 530bhp, so I am always suspicious of pick-and-mix upgrades with big power claims on standard cars.
I just read through all the specs - you're right, there are rather a lot of mods there. I think I'd want something pretty much unmodified, apart from an upgraded infotainment system.
RS5?
I too had an 8J TTS and whilst you certainly wouldn’t want to do it all the time, we could squeeze a couple of folk in the back. Albeit I had to move my seat further forward than I’d liked to!
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