Have had the chance to spend a couple of weeks with an Ineos Grenadier and, given there aren’t many about and they seem to divide the opinion of journalists, I thought I’d share my take, albeit quite briefly. I should say I have no link to Ineos, or any financial interest in it.
I ran a Fieldmaster station wagon, which is the one with all the comfy bits as well as the grrr bits. It was the petrol version and one of the ones with the software upgrade which has solved the early troubles which did its reputation so much harm.
Just worth saying that I’m a serial (old) Defender owner, as well as numerous Hiluxes, and over the years a few other large SUVs (XC90, Lexus RX450h, Discoveries and so on and I’ve probably done about 15,000 miles in new Defender, both S and LWB). I’ve also spent a lot of time over the years in sandy places driving (mostly) Land Cruisers for long periods, often weeks at a time, in very challenging terrain. Even found myself driving an Arctic Trucks Hilux for a week somewhere once. So whilst nobody’s an expert, very much me included, I do at least have some relevant on and off road experience.
First thing to say is that if you like a purposeful SUV the Grenadier looks fabulous in the flesh. Design is in the eye of the beholder of course but the entire vehicle, from conception to execution, is about function over form which I think actually gives it a fabulous form. It’s a bit like an automotive Tudor Pelagos - designed to do a thing really well and that’s that. It’s also huge. Really only lacks a GPMG on a swivel turret to complete the look.
Interior is great. There is a touch screen but everything important to the business of driving has a thumping great knob, switch or lever. You quickly learn where these are and can operate all of them by muscle memory without your eyes leaving the road. Also all chunky enough to be operated in gloves, which I can confirm from a very cold day’s shooting.
Driving position is magnificent, up there with Range Rover for me with the same concept of height but a lower dash to give a really brilliant view.
As you’ll have seen, lots of the switches are in the roof. I don’t know how practicably useful this is but I can tell you that it’s very easy to pretend to be landing a DC10 on a mountain strip in the Shans to pick up opium when you’re actually pulling in to Beaconsfield Services, and therefore this is a feature I enjoyed.
Lots of room inside, although the boot space is a little awkward to access all of. I liked the 1/3rd - 2/3rds rear door, but it does take some getting used to and the position of the spare wheel on it drastically reduces the view in your rear view mirror.
A real weak spot is that in a RHD car (which mine was) there’s nowhere really to put your left foot that’s out of the way. I got used to it, but in an £75k+ car you shouldn’t have to get used to it. There are a few of these RHD only issues, although none as annoying as this one. Apparently they’ll improve this at facelift, but can’t entirely solve it because the issue involves major components and would require a redesign. Not a deal breaker for me, but could be for some.
The 3.0ltr BMW engine is alright. Pulls strongly, although it requires a bit of focus at higher speeds. Little noisier than you’d get in a “luxury” SUV, but then Grenadier isn’t a luxury SUV, although it is very comfortable, that foot thing aside. It was pretty thirsty in my time. I’m not one for working out MPG but I’d say mid 20s at a guess.
One of the things you find after some time with it is it’s massively over-engineered. In this sense it’s far more the new old Land Cruiser than the new old Defender. Everything from the welds upwards is done to manage sustained extreme use in harsh environments. I really like the authenticity of this, although it was of little use to me in Oxfordshire and adds to the cost of the vehicle. But if you want a car that can cross Namibia rather than one which just looks like it can, you’ll approve. Design ethos a major factor here too. The car's designed to do this through being mechanically solid but (comparatively) simple, rather than being engineered to drive like a giant VW Golf so as not to alarm people using it for the school run in Tunbridge Wells. That kind of “car-like” feel can only be delivered in a 2+ tonne SUV or truck by the use of complex suspension and electronics, which is great in Kent but will screw you royally when it breaks 300 miles north east of Walvis Bay (and I do speak as someone who has driven across Namibia and had to help with a number of desert fixes a long way from a main dealer, or indeed a phone signal or any water).
The point of all this is that it drives like what it is, which many people seem to have hated (although others love). I think this is interesting because it’s about what you’ve experienced and what you want. Some of us understand that for the kind of robustness and capability Grenadier delivers, there have to be sacrifices. Defender is just as capable, with fewer sacrifices, but you don’t (and won’t) see many of them far from the towns in Africa because it does this through immense complexity, and that brings risk. Grenadier, as a modern car which meets the legislative stanards required, is not as simple as an old Land Rover, but its major elements could be fixed by a bush mechanic.
In terms of how this stuff has been received, the steering is a case in point. Some have hated it. Stu Gallagher from EVO (who’s a mate) even said it was dangerous. Stu’s 500x the driver I am but on this I think he’s wrong. It takes a lot of getting used to, and in UK road driving you have to keep your inputs up more than in most cars, so you can’t switch off (but then should you be switching off driving something that big down a b-road? I would say no). But when you’re properly off-road, it’s an absolute joy and allows real precision without being tiring.
Other positive is people loved it. Couldn’t park it anywhere without lots of attention and questions. People let you out of side roads, lots of thumbs-ups. Village pub vox pop suggested that people really want the brand to succeed, as a new British brand (and Grenadier is as British as Defender in that it was conceived and designed here then built abroad - actually it’s more British, because the company that builds it is British, not Indian, owned).
In summary, it all comes back to that thing again - it’s built as a tool to do a job. I think this is why it’s such a misunderstood car. Very, very few people have any conception or experience of the job it’s built to do, so they judge it against a grrrr-looking family car designed for suburban use with some (perhaps lots in some cases) off-road capability, and that’s simply not what it is. If you get what it is, and are happy to take the sacrifices that demands, I think it’s brilliant.
I’m originally from Kenya and if I was going back I’d be buying one. I’m not going back, but I may do so anyway...
Last edited by FrontierGibberish; 31st January 2024 at 22:34.
Thanks for putting down your thoughts, it’s good to read real world experiences
I saw one up close for the first time at Bisley a few weeks ago and as the old Defender is no longer ULEZ compliant, this is the next best completely utterly unsuitable car for where I live. But I really like the idea of it.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 31st January 2024 at 22:24.
I was lucky to test one on the off road course at Goodwood FOS last year and was impressed (not driven one on road).
My background is Land Rover based (owning four series one 80inch at one point), I currently use a Isuzu DMax as my towing/off road vehicle.
I was seriously tempted by the Grenadier when first announced, but the price point and looks (although I’ve grown to like them) put me off.
To justify one, I’d have to trade my pickup and car to make the man maths work. However for that kind of money I would be looking at a Defender 90.
I thought this thread was going to be about a cyclist. Doh.
Great review, I’ve seen quite a few in the flesh and they’re not bad looking, I followed one with a big trailer on and he wasn’t hanging about.
The left foot thing is a common problem with rhd wagons they don’t seem to grasp that just moving the wheel and pedals isn’t enough.
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Brilliant write up, thank you for taking the time.
I love the roof switches!
Only thing for me that looks out of place in the interior is the BMW gear selector, it’s just too twee to be in there.
^^^This^^^Only thing for me that looks out of place in the interior is the BMW gear selector, it’s just too twee to be in there.
I must say that I do not have much experience driving off road after my time in the Army. Let's say that was enough. But my wife with a history of working for NGOs in Asia, the Middle East and Northern Africa (it was long ago, that should be noted as well) has a strong opinion about 4x4s: LandCruiser or nothing.
She read the OP's thread and said: "I wouldn't be in one in 5, 10 or 15 year time, somewhere on the Karakoram Highway or South Algeria. You'll never get that car going again when it breaks down. And all break down! Give me a Troopy every day of the week!"
Or, my take on it: will an Eneos survive the Top Gear test like they did with the red HiLux?
Most Eneos I see in the Netherlands have German plates. I think they're sold in bigger numbers than here in the Netherlands. Prices here are sky-high. But, in all fairness, Dutch prices of the latest Land Rovers are eyewatering as well. Eneos' prices come close. You need to drive it as a company car, and as a van. That keeps the price just under €100,000. Driving it with more seats and all taxes paid, will set you back nearly €150,000.
I personally think that Toyota has picked up the gauntlet with their new LandCruiser. With a starting price of $ 50,000. And then I won't mention the rudimentary HJZ series. Toyota has managed to get overcome the EU's 'anti-pollution rules' with a revised engine management and it's for sale again in Europe with the 6 cyl petrol engine.
Last edited by thieuster; 1st February 2024 at 08:44.
Sounds great for the wilderness and farmers possibly but ain’t it tremendous overkill, plausibly too large for use in the UK, unless you’re gearing up for the coming food riots…I know , I know a forum full of desk jockeys strapping dive watches with 300 metres WR on…lolz unintentional humour, thumping great knobs to do with the bizzo of driving, sorry, tongue in cheek.
Last edited by Passenger; 1st February 2024 at 10:06.
A while ago my wife and I did a Schoeman trip all round the skeleton coast.
Henk, the family's mechanic, was our guide.
His attitude to their vehicles was pretty simple, as their camps can be many tens (if not hundreds) of miles from any civilization whatsoever. (They are pretty remote and you fly into them in light aircraft, their safaris consist of flights between each of their bases, and then tours round the area of each base).
He was adamant then that he would never use anything other than Series Land Rovers, and certainly nothing newer. He had a tool kit that weighed about 9kg, and included a couple of spares (dizzy cap and arm, for instance). Tyre spares and maybe a half-shaft or two.
He knew from experience that he could repair every possible failure with that kit, and possibly a few bits of improvisation, like roof-mounting the fuel tank in the event of a pump failure and so forth.
He had less love for Land Cruisers, although initially robust, he thought they had too many sealed units that could not be repaired.
And was equally certain that he was never going to trust his survival (and he saw the vehicles as survival equipment) to an ECU or chipset that might well fail in the heat and dust. Hence the lack of modernisation.
This might have changed by now, we went about 15 years ago, and the fleet, although well maintained, was (by definition) pretty old even back then. But I am sure the concept has remained the same.
I think the Grenadier is a great thing, and very capable off road, but imho it is in an odd place.
Very basic and military looking, but extraordinarily expensive, and so complex as to be risky for use anywhere other than under full dealer support.
So it looks (and is specified) like it should be a great expedition vehicle, but is too expensive for so basic a task, and can't be taken away from the world of electronics, diagnostics and replacement sensors.
I think it is destined for a life ferrying people up onto the moors for expensive shooting, and back again to the luxury lodge. Or life in the city.
Personally, I would much prefer to spend (a lot less) money on the New Toyota IMVO in 4wd format, and leave the Grenadier to the moneyed Walts.
I do hope they bring that to the UK.
Aside from your guides 9kg toolset and a few spares his knowledge/ experience weighed nothing, he was confident he would fix that vehicle and survive, keep it simple stupid, just not the same game with the modern tech heavy stuff as you note.Originally Posted by sweets
Great (and amusing) read, thanks OP
I really enjoyed reading the OP's review, I have heard about the steering and would like to drive one to see for myself what they are really like. I'm a Certified Land Rover experience off road driving instructor, so get to drive and take clients out in all of the companys new models on our demonstration courses which I really enjoy. The new defender is awesome off road, but when you get it back on the tarmac it's a very comfortable car with excellent handling. The monocoque chasis, air suspension and a waft of electronic driving aids see to this, so I can see the appeal of something more rugged and old school, that could be repaired by any mechanic anywhere, though whether the Ineos fits this bill this remains to be seen.
I've personally owned a number of SUV's, when I lived in the middle east I had 2 Nissan Armadas, 2 Toyota Sequoias and a Chevrolet Suburban, and took all of them off road and had loads of fun in them. Here in the UK, I've owned a Mercedes GL, 2 X5's, and X3 and now have a Seat Tarraco tdi dsg 4drive which is an excellent car, I wouldn't do any hard core off roading in it, although I think it could handle most aspects of the LRE technical course without issue in all honesty.
I do agree with the comment about the BMW gear selector, looks odd and out of place.
Perfect for max flex in the prep school car park
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Last edited by xxnick1975; 1st February 2024 at 19:57.
If Steeldive made vehicles, isn’t this a Steeldive Defender?
I think it looks alright, and I know Ineos are at pains to point out it’s not a Defender, but the court case that Ineos won over using the basic shape means it’s hard to gloss over that. It does pull on the old UK heart strings though I guess.
I had a Defender 90 back in the day when I was towing horse boxes all over the place, and my main memory of it (apart from it feeling unburstable) was how cramped it was inside with very little elbow room and a windscreen seemingly a few inches from your nose.
Pleased to see they’ve addressed the space issues in the Grenadier and it looks believable that it’s more G-Wagon inspired than old Defender.
I have to say, the switch gear on the roof is kinda cool, but then I’m an aviation guy so appeals to my aerosexual side. I hope it does well, and keeps some jobs going in the UK.
Last edited by Tooks; 1st February 2024 at 15:11.
What does it look like? A review without pics is like chips without curry sauce.
Wow. Our honeymoon was to Namibia in 2008 - a two week self drive round a fair chunk of the country including skeleton coast, etosha and the Namib desert.
The roads are terrible, often looking more like a riverbed followed by a waterfall. Like you said, the camps are often a dozen miles from a main riverbed.
Our Toyota Yaris suffered one flat tyre, though I did envy those who hired X-Trails.
"Bite my shiny metal ass."
- Bender Bending Rodríguez
Like nearly a Land Rover.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
I have a diesel Trialmaster. Put down a deposit several years ago securing the early price meaning it was £17k cheaper than the current price. I think it’s relatively expensive at the current price but is an interesting vehicle and not sure if it has a true competitor. New Defender has more tech and doesn’t offer front and rear lockers. Not sure I’ll ever need the lockers though.
It’s like a modern version of the original Defender and I get plenty of waves from Defender drivers but not from new Defender owners.
Steering has received many comments but you quickly get used to it. Foot hump isn’t too bad, I drove across France in it last summer and managed 300 miles in a day with no real issues.
Software isn’t as good as it should be but latest update has helped. Fuel economy isn’t great at c. 25mpg as the same engine in my BMW X4 could nudge 50mpg on a good run.
The Grenadier is solidly made. You just need to lie under it to see the gauge of the steel used and quality components. It isn’t perfect and it’s a large wagon from a new manufacturer which has had and will continue to have teething and ongoing issues. so far I can live with it.
It is over engineered. I like the comparison to a Tudor Pelagos with a G Wagon being a Rolex.
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