Reply With QuoteMy wife has a v90 and she loves its relaxing and not super fast but can get going and does everything she needs it when I am not around lugging kids, bikes, scooters and dog around.
I need to replace the current family car with something a little bigger. Must be an estate, must be petrol, must be at least mildly interesting. Budget up to £30k and cars up to five years old (ish). My current front runner is a 540i Touring, the 3 litre 'six with ZF gearbox seems to tick a lot of boxes but Mrs Rico is seemingly infatuated with the Volvo V60/V90 side of things. Having read a lot of reviews for the Volvos, they seem to suffer with lag when pulling away and aren't particularly exciting to drive.
Any words of advice or recommendations appreciated, thank you.
My wife has a v90 and she loves its relaxing and not super fast but can get going and does everything she needs it when I am not around lugging kids, bikes, scooters and dog around.
Can't comment on the Volvo but I suspect the BMW will be better to drive. I'm on my third BMW and my current one is the first I've had with the B58 (M240iX) and it is a lovely engine with 374hp although it looks like the version installed in the 5er has the 333hp output.
BMW 5 Touring best estate out there if you enjoy a car that drives well and does everything an estate car should do.
I have had two 5 series estates and two Saloons best cars I ever had. If it was not for the wife needing a car she gets up into as opposed to down I would still have one, mind you our X3 is a great car
Last edited by hilly10; 3rd January 2024 at 12:45.
I’ve had assorted 3-series Tourings for over a decade now, and they suit us down to the ground. I’ve driven both a late-ish 335d and an Alpina, but only briefly in both cases. I haven’t had a 5 series for over a decade.Originally Posted by rico
I’ve driven a recent V90 for a few hundred miles to share the driving with a mate while going to the Belgian GP, but I don’t have any other experience of those models.
A few points & things to think about based on that personal experience & what I see on various BMW forums:
The most recent 3 or 5 series (from 2019 and (?) 2016) are the ones to go for, with (apparently) improved handling, ride, reliability, fuel consumption and clever electronics. I’ve currently got a very late model F31 320d from early 2019, and I must say I’m happy so far (2 years ownership).
Earlier BMWs had a strong family steering/handling character that included a very ‘taut’ feel, enhanced by a lot of steering centering etc. This has been watered down in the latest chassis from the mid-2010s which have steering by wire, but my experience is that once you’ve got used to the altered feel, they actually handle better with much less crashing around as well.
If you’re at all interested in how the vehicle handles and whether it’s enjoyable, I really strongly recommend you try to get a test drive of both. I did not enjoy the feel of the Volvo: less soggy than a similarly aged Merc, but pretty mundane. The engine sounded like a rep”s car.
Yes, now I’ve moved to 4 cylinders and 2L mine feels comparatively gutless, but it’s a brilliant motorway car (I average 49mpg, around 7-8 more than I got with my previous 330d, and there’s much less road noise).
If you’re going for a 6cyl you’ll get a lot more accelerative fun (depending what you’re coming from, of course): again, we were just cruising in the Volvo, but it certainly didn’t excite me. BMW 6cyl engines of recent eras are mostly very fine. Most people on the forums seem to report high 20s to low 30mpg for that engine, as I recall.
Are you sure you want a 5 series? Great big lumps as far as I’m concerned, and a right handful around small urban streets and in multi-storeys, but maybe you want to shift a lot of furniture, children and dogs all the time… (if so, you really should look seriously at the Volvo).
If it’s any guide, with the cargo net up and all seats in use, my F31 touring has around 5% less boot space than my friends’ 520d saloons. I have the capability to flatten everything down and shift loads of gazebos, tents and other charity event gear, and going away for the weekend with 3 friends and their hiking gear is a doddle.
If you do go for a BMW, make sure you change the engine oil and filter annually (and most certainly well before the 18-20k recommendation). My indie BMW specialist says he’s never heard of a timing chain failure in any recent BMW engine where that has been done.
Last edited by drmarkf; 3rd January 2024 at 12:58. Reason: Typo
Just to add for a small(ish), albeit heavy, 4 wheel drive car with a 3 litre 6 cylinder engine and 374hp it can be remarkably efficient when not even trying (note 0% use of Eco Pro mode or Coasting);
I had a volvo v 90 on loan it was a great car I'd be quite happy to own had the 250 bhp petrol engine not sure how much more power you need but there is a 400bhp hybrid if 250s not enough
Sister in law has a V60 R Design petrol with two young kids and likes it a lot but if I was going that route either the cross country versions or a 3/5 series touring would be more up my street depending on the typical driving environment re city vs motorway.
Both sister in law and father in law just had an email to let them know the app to start/precondition the car is now £35 per year. BMW no doubt does something similar.
A friend is currently on his third Superb and loves them, he runs the hatches but there is an estate. The petrol engine in his previous one did a fancy two cylinder thing when cruising and he'd get 50+ mpg on a long run, impressive in a car that size. The ride is nice too, not at all VAG harsh.
Another point worth adding on the BMW side (3 or 5) is that some people find the M Sport suspension option rather harsh, especially on the larger wheel options (19” on the 3) and with run flat tyres. I don’t have any issues (unlike with Audi’s sport suspension) but it seems to crop up a lot on the forums.
Another push towards having a proper test drive before committing either way, I guess.
At profound risk of perpetuating stereotypes, my experiences are thus:
BMW - driver's car
Volvo - passenger's car
The interior of the V90 was (for my tastes) by far the nicest of anything I've driven, and its ride comfort better than the BMWs, it was also more practical in terms of usable space, handling was surprisingly decent and nimble for something so big, but not so confidence-inspiring as most BMWs. In both instances, engines were run-of-the-mill diesels of ~200 bhp. More would be nice, but comes at an obvious cost.
Were I in the market again, I would probably lean towards Volvo - my days of driving like an adrenaline-fuelled tw@ are long behind me.
Of course, the sensible answer to any "Wot car?" question is - "Get a test drive!".
I have a V60 Cross Country with the B5 250 odd horsepower engine. I’ve had BMW estates in the past, and as said on here they are more of a ‘drivers’ car. That said, the Volvo is quick in a straight line, it’s big inside, comfy for four big adults with the optional four zone climate control, but where it scores over the Beemer is that in off road mode, with AWD and with all season tyres, it will go anywhere you feel brave enough to take it.
Not quite an estate but how about a Rav4 put the seats down and its cavernous and goes well as its a 2.5 4 wheel drive mines The Hybrid and gets 47-49 to the gallon its also loaded with toys worth a look.
Squashy1
Subaru Outback? Petrol and interesting but not perhaps in the way you meant.
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V90 comes in T6 and I think T8 if you want extra power to match beemers although as mentioned for driver experience people favour bmw. Personally I place comfort first so a Volvo with oomph would probably be my choice….
We (as a family) find our current F11 extremely comfortable. With 2 x 500 miles+ journeys a year. It compares well with the E Class we had before, smaller boot and less legroom but more enjoyable to drive and better lateral support on all seats.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
On my second Superb estate. First time I've ever replaced a car with the same. Petrol. 190 bhp. Averages 45 - 55 depending on journey. Plenty of performance for most of the time. Rear leg room and boot are class-leading. I will likely replace with another...
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Mazda6 GT sport.
I would avoid anything German these days, they are living on past glories. I would also avoid anything that has a cam belt which includes most Volvos.
I currently run a T6 V90 Cross Country, and have ran a 530e as a company car. The Volvo outstrips the BMW in acceleration, the cabin environment is way nicer, and being based in Scotland, the lack of having to faff with winter tyres is a huge bonus. The BMW was a better handler on the twisty bits, the Volvo outdoes it in all other respects. Plus people let me out at junctions…:)
There are more and more second hand 5 series 2020 onwards wearing non run flats as you could spec them with such. IMO run flats are horrible they make the ride harsh and always felt they could break away when cornering hard.
Also with the BMW you get what is arguably the best infotainment out there, a joy to use and so simple.
Poor advice.
Mazda 6 was the worst car I have ever owned in 40 odd years of driving - appalling in the ice/snow. Most German cars are a solid choice.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
The BMW 5 series repeatedly wins the best Executive Saloon and estate car.
I have the Volvo and can confirm the auto box ‘pause’ issue is real. A Polestar remap will help a bit, but it’s still deeply irritating.
Love a car recommendation thread. So far you have the following recommendations;
BMW 5 Series
Volvo V60
Volvo V90
Skoda Superb
Toyota RAV4 (estate!?)
Subaru Outback
Merc E Class
Mazda 6 GT Sport
I am going to recommend an Audi. Not because I actually recommend one, but only because I want it to complete £30k estate car bingo.
Absolutely agree here. I had an M Sport 3 series touring on 19" wheels with low profile tyres and, whilst it went around corners as well as anything, the ride was super harsh and I dont think I'd be able to live with it long term. If you are going M Sport make sure you get the adaptive suspension option. The ride on my Audi A4 Avant S line was much better.
Thanks to all those who replied so far! The infotainment and lack of physical buttons on the Volvos is a pretty big deal to me, and it seems that not many were specced with Carplay. I'm a bit of a purist and would prefer a straight up ICE rather than any hybrid addons - we plan to keep this car for a while and it just feels like another thing that could go wrong and require a main dealer visit, which out of warranty doesn't really appeal. I already have a 1 series BMW so I am familiar with the ecosystem etc.
The V60 & V90 Cross Country models do appeal to the Mrs as they are a little higher and getting the little one in her car seat would be that much easier I suppose.
I don't really want a VAG car, but have been considering an S4 or S6 but something I saw about plastic timing chain guides is a little bit off-putting.
We will commence test drives but the cars we are considering seem to be scattered around the country!
If the car was not soeccex with Apple car play it’s a £250 option to have it retro fitted of the top of my head. We have the B&W sound system and it’s quite nice. You can also retro fit wireless Apple car play by a donglle if it does not have it. I have had many estates for work and the Volvo is the go to long distance cruisers for the famiky. I have driven across Europe in a few now and walked out feeling refreshed. Some come with massaging seats heated and cooled which are nice.
Agree here as well. I don't like run flat tyres because it restricts my choice too much and fitted Michelin Cross Climate+ so as to have an all weather solution. The change it made to comfort is really surprising and it doesn't affect the driving experience at all. It's just a cost/weight saving scheme for the manufacturer.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
One thing to be careful about on Volvo with CarPlay if buying used is if it’s full or half screeen CarPlay. FIL paid £350 or £500 to have his 68 plate XC90 Updated to CarPlay and it’s almost useless. Generic pic attached.
The obvious choice would be a 5 series touring I think.
Something slightly different, how about a VW Arteon? I think that is a very pretty car. 2 litre TSI should be quick enough. Similar good looks from a Mercedes CLA as well.
The best looking estate IMO would be a Jaguar XF sportbrake, unfortunately though the best engine for that one is probably the V6 diesel.
Last edited by watchstudent; 4th January 2024 at 12:24.
Audi A6 - have a look at the 50tdi based on your current vehicle.
I love mine and am on my second..... It's very good at what it was intended for, has loads of space, brilliant cockpit / dash, quiet, comfortable etc etc.
It is a decent size though at 5m long so parking can be a pain sometimes.
Oh, and if you have the obligatory private plate and don't use the indicators you will defo get lots of waves from other drivers
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Another vote for the RAV4 hybrid from me. I’ve had a 2020 model for several months now and it’s such a practical economical car.
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Reading this thread I realise - having owned an Audi A4 estate, a Volvo V70, a Volvo XC60 and various other brands - I’ve never owned or aspired to own a BMW of any shape or form - I do like cars (those listed above are from my family transport days) but there’s something just a bit flash about a BMW in my eyes. I wanted a 325i cabriolet back in the 80’s but when I could afford one somehow I’d decided they were just a bit too flashy and try hard. No idea why that turned me off as I can be a bit flashy and try hard tbh!
Dacia Jogger?
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I had a 69 plate V60 cross country T5 (4wd and 250hp). It was excellent in almost every way, extremely comfortable and refined, very quick (in a straight line), worked well in all conditions and I actually liked the screen based controls particularly when combined with decent voice control.
Bad points are cornering, stupid gearbox and lag on acceleration.
I had an X drive 320d touring before it which I liked but the Volvo was a massive upgrade (the 3 series was an F31 so much older model).
I now have a Hyundai Tucson hybrid which is very good but the Volvo was a nicer car and I miss 4wd.
The Volvo T5 engine is ICE only with no hybrid bits if that helps your decision...
I have been following this for a while. I think the OP has already nailed it with the BMW choice; but only if you must go German. I would go for something Japanese or South Korean all day long personally. Likely means giving up a little driving enjoyment, but in my experience peace of mind, reliability and ownership enjoyment wins through.
What would you recommend looking at from Japan/SK? Must be ICE & estate with a comparable boot size.
I'm running around in a much cherished Saab 9-5 Aero estate, and reluctantly thinking about what might succeed it, so this is a very interesting thread. I'd also (preferring Scandi to German) been wondering about one of the sportier variants of the Volvo V90.
My first choice would be the 540i as the OP suggests - can't go wrong IMHO a great all round, "will do everything very well" type of car.
Unfortunately, estate cars in general and especially large estate cars seem to be side lined in favour of mid/large SUVs. They seem to be a dying breed - the Japanese and Korean marques seem to have dropped large estates off their model lists altogether, whereas the likes of MB, Audi, BMW and Volvo persist but their offerings are more premium sector; An E class, A6 Avant, 5 series or V90 are capable cars and nice places to be but expensive.
The one non-premium large estate I can think of is the Skoda Superb (superb by name and apparently by all accounts, superb by nature) - the higher spec models have one foot firmly in the premium sector and available with the VAG 2.0l petrol turbo engine with circa 300bhp, so offer performance too.
Might be worth a look as a left field option?
Indeed. I assume it tends to be marginal in these conversations due to badge snobbery, but I note that the HonestJohn columns constantly rave about the Superb as best estate etc, and a 300bhp one would be a heck of a car.
We had a similarly cherished one, great cars. Then an inescapable need for a 7 seater arose and, whatever the opposite of cherish is. it's what I feel for our Zafira B. I can't wait to get back to saloons estates. Will probably go with a 2+ year old volvo, or a Mazda 6, or a Superb.
Yes I love it. The Aero a wolf in sheep's clothing alright. But it's certainly getting more challenging to keep them on the road - it's gotten to the point where Saab drivers have started waving to each other.
By all means have a drive/look at the Mazda 6 but it really was the worst car I have ever had - particularly bad in the ice and snow. Handling was also a bit 'odd' which I think was simply down to the weight distribution.
Never again.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
It is why these threads are completely pointless.
Some people rave about particular cars they have owned, while others have hated them.
The buyer should create a shortlist and undertake a comprehensive test drive of each, if possible in town, country roads and motorway.
Which version/year Mazda6 did you have? And with winter tyres? We are looking at getting an estate car in the next year, as an upgrade on our Mazda2 with the arrival of a 5-month old. The Wife really likes the UI/controls of the 2 and the 6-estate seems a no-brainer.
We had an E90 330i saloon and I'd love another in Touring form but probably want something newer, that and the Superb Estate looks good for both value and size.
Good in snow is key for us as we like to drive down to the Alps for skiing (and hiking in Summer), the 330i on 17" CrossClimates was fine in that respect.
I do wonder how long the estate car has left. Dont get me wrong I like them, however the market seems very SUV centric these days if you want some extra ( perceived) load space. Or if you really need space a hipster van.
I'd agree, but having a BMW Touring in the past I'm now an SUV convert in the guise on an X3, which is built on the 5 series platform. I prefer the look of SUV's to Estates, and the driving position. With the OP's budget I'd be getting an X3, or X5 diesel (although I know that doesn't fit his requirements for a petrol estate).
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