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This rubbish has been all over Facebook for months
I have just received this, I don't know how or even if true, it may have come from Greta ? :)
This is a Tesla battery.
To manufacture it you need:
12 tons of rock for Lithium
5 tons of Cobalt minerals
3 tons of mineral for nickel
12 tons of copper ore
Move 250 tons of soil to obtain:
12 kg of Lithium
30 pounds of nickels
22 kg of manganese
15 pounds of Cobalt
100 Kg of rams
200 kg of aluminum, steel, and plastic.
The Caterpillar 994A used for earthmoving consumes 1000 litres of diesel in 12 hours.
Not to mention all of the other equipment.
Finally, you get a “zero emissions” car.
This rubbish has been all over Facebook for months
Is it not true?Originally Posted by adrianw
FW: FW: RE: RE: RE: FW: RE: FW:
How much of it is recyclable?
We need to go back to horses . What upgrade specs do they offer these days? Wouldn't mind one with heated saddle.
They would have a fart tax
https://www.benchmarkminerals.com/bl...60-in-6-years/
This is why I wish you were the west side of the M25, we'd get on so well.
The post is shite, lithium isn't mined by excavating rocks but it's brine extracted. So the 250 tons is idiotic. There is also no large excavator in use for this.
There are plenty of arguments to be had about the ecological impact of electric cars, including battery manufacturing, but this list is garbage.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
You just love sprouting any garbage you can dredge up about EVs don’t you?I have just received this, I don't know how or even if true, it may have come from Greta ? :)
This is a Tesla battery.
To manufacture it you need:
12 tons of rock for Lithium
5 tons of Cobalt minerals
3 tons of mineral for nickel
12 tons of copper ore
Move 250 tons of soil to obtain:
12 kg of Lithium
30 pounds of nickels
22 kg of manganese
15 pounds of Cobalt
100 Kg of rams
200 kg of aluminum, steel, and plastic.
The Caterpillar 994A used for earthmoving consumes 1000 litres of diesel in 12 hours.
Not to mention all of the other equipment.
Finally, you get a “zero emissions” car.
People the world over have no issue with plugging in their mobile phone, laptop, headphones, game consoles, drones, kids toys etc to charge them, but when it comes to cars, for some illogical reason they get their knickers in a twist.
They also conveniently forget that the extraction of fossil fuels is hardly carbon neutral. As far as i can see most of the raw products can also be recycled come end of life, unlike a gallon of petrol.
Having had my EV for 3 weeks now, it’s laughable how little the average person in the street knows about them tbh, even the basics.
It’s hardly brand new tech but there seem to be a lot of folk who’ve decided - based upon never even having sat in one - that they are the devils work and just a silly fad. It’s usually something to do with not being able to drive to Edinburgh and back if they wanted to without refuelling, a trip they’ve never made and are unlikely to in the near future.
Even in 3 weeks I’ve learned to just politely listen and nod whilst trying not to smirk or roll my eyes!
It’s one of my favourite pastimes on a slow evening…sit and troll the EV haters on FB. They all sing from the same hymn sheet and have exactly the same arguments. Not one as yet that i can remember has ever come up with a reasonable point of view other than “ I'm not having a bloody milk float!
It's a waste of time on both sides TBH D.
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
One of my grand daughters boy friend took me for a run in his dads Tesla a few weeks ago (don't know what model) I thought it was fantastic mate, I would have one in a heart beat if I could afford one.
They’re only 20 odd grand now (see sales thread) Happy Motoring.
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Three years in a Model 3 Performance, gone now and I miss it like hell. Everyone I took for a drive who were thinking of one made the jump.
As above there is so much fake and boll@cks news posted on EV’s, in reality life with one is so simple.
I am now considering a s/h Model S and a 100k mile example makes perfect sense to me. They are proving to be bomb proof and peanuts to run.
Pitch
I converted to electric vehicles far easier than id have ever imagined Chris after being sat firmly in the no foo@king way camp for ages. Every report you see always but always come up with the same rubbish without fail which can be debunked by anybody within 3 months of owning one. It would just be good one day to read an original report without the same regurgitated shyte we've heard thousands of times before.
100% - we have held off due to circumstances.
Social media innit!
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Oh well if only 20k everyone in the UK should have one........thats everyone,oh hang on some are suffering trying to balance eating and heating......maybe they should hold off buying one hey.
Happy New Year All.
It was a timely post actually by the OP not that he probably realised that at the time but i read yesterday the latest model 3 has been released with a claimed range of circa 420 miles. Not that I particularly would have a tesla, having nothing against the design but the wife would put her foot down, but to me thats somewhat of a game changer and turns the tides on a lot of people who would never consider any vehicle unless they magically did 400 miles at least. The price starts at 39k, whilst it’s still expensive compared to some vehicles gets them away from the claimed “ every EV is over 50k category and rich man toys quote.
Last edited by Franky Four Fingers; 29th December 2023 at 12:46. Reason: Incorrect info
So what…not everyone can afford a 10k Rolex…whats the point?
You posted this, on a forum dedicated to the adoration of watches?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Wait a bit and Elno, IF true to form, will slash that 39 k by about 30 percent...
Cheaper EVs are also available, starting at a couple of grand.
To be fair, the facelift model 3 that is £39k won’t do 400 miles either, more like 220 ish, but Tesla is doing exactly what it set out to do which is to disrupt the car market and show that EVs can and do work.Wait a bit and Elno, IF true to form, will slash that 39 k by about 30 percent...
Competitors have taken note, along with western governments, and the direction is clear.
The FUD and the misinformation around anything to do with EVs is unwelcome though, and somewhat surprising. As somebody has said earlier in the thread, the countless millions of electrical/battery gadgets we have are used without a second thought, but when it comes to a car powered by the same thing, melt down….
Yes my bad 100%- i took the tesla page after reading the report on face value. The claimed range of the 39k model though is still 321 which summer months must be close?
For people with a home charging point why does the range matter? Our EV claims 295 miles, it actually gets 230, we plug it in every night so it's always full, the car averages about 40 miles per day, it seems people choose to get hung up on something that is irrelevant, we treat the car as it can do journeys of 100 miles away, if further we use a different car, if we didn't have one it would still be worth hiring a car for long journeys or risk commercial chargers, personally as we own the car I wouldn't hammer the batteries with a fast charger.
whuts that...do fast chargers have some kind of deleterious impact on the batteries?
Unlikely, unless it was very warm and speeds were very low.
What Tesla manage to get efficiency wise out of the standard range RWD M3 is pretty impressive though, and recharge speeds are high and reliable on the Supercharger network.
The wife gets a reliable 280 miles in any weather out of her pre-facelift 2021 M3 LR, but 300 is easily achievable from its 75kWh battery.
I’m no Tesla fanboi unfortunately, as the car and supporting infrastructure are pretty compelling as EVs go, but for me there’s more to a car/EV than just the range/efficiency.
It’s been said that constant rapid charging can lead to a shorter battery life. It’s a long term thing and may lead to a small reduction in range when compared to a battery that’s not regularly rapid charged over the longer term.whuts that...do fast chargers have some kind of deleterious impact on the batteries?
That said, I’d buy a higher mileage older EV than a similar very low mileage model as not using the battery is probably worse than higher regular usage.
I home charge my 24kwhr Nissan van every night. I have a winter range of about 55 miles but it does everything I need it to. On occasion I have to top up at a rapid for about ten minutes to get me home.
It has literally just been written off but I’m going to keep it rather than take the full payout and buy the bigger battery model.
Ah, thanks.
fast charging generates heat, repeated fast charging will affect battery performance, if you are the first owner you might not care, however subsequent owners will inherit any perspective issueswhuts that...do fast chargers have some kind of deleterious impact on the batteries?
I suppose you could say that about any type of used car
As ever, the exact answer to battery degradation and rapid charging starts with ‘it depends’.
There’s a big difference in how a passively cooled battery capable of outputting 120PS vs a water cooled pack capable of 400PS like that in your iPace will respond to being rapid charged.
A battery capable of peak discharge rates that can deliver 400PS (295kW) is not really being stressed recharging at well under half that peak rate.
The Battery Management System manages that aspect, and limits charging power when the battery temps and percentage charged are less than optimal for the fastest rapid charge.
So called ‘calendar ageing’ is the main factor in battery degradation, as a rule of thumb most cars spend 95% of the time parked doing precisely nothing. A 2.5% loss in capacity a year is considered a reasonable assumption so 25% after 10 years. Degradation may be a little steeper in the first year or two, but levels off. Rapid charging definitely contributes to degradation too, but it’s still mainly time and battery cycles where lithium ions travel to and from the anode and cathode causing physical wear that lessens a batteries capacity and efficiency.
Much of what is considered ‘fact’ about EV batteries is based on early passively cooled batteries, battery chemistries and power is very different to that of 10-12 years ago, but the general consensus is that EV batteries last a lot longer than most people think, and have a useful life even after being less than great in an EV.
That’s not trying to teach you to suck eggs by the way, just in case folks are interested. Stuff wears out, even internal combustion engines, but most manufacturers are putting an 8 year/100k mile warranty on their battery packs, so they must think they’ll go the distance otherwise it’s going to get costly.
Nissan have been offering an 8 year warranty since the first 30kwhr Leaf (later mk1, the mk2 is 40 or 64) so since 2016. The early ones will be out of warranty next year. The 24kwhr batteries only had a five year warranty so mines been out of warranty for going on four years now.
The basic models with no saddle have heating for free ;)
Thanks for that, interesting.
My current car (petrol) is coming up to 13 years old and I will be had it 6 years soon.
I have always bought cars 7+ years old due to financial restraints and if they have been maintained well they then run well without being expensive to keep going.
The chances are if I live long enough :) my next car could be an EV, will a 10 year old EV with average miles be as good as a mechanical petrol car with the same milage/service history ?
Yes, the Nissan packs are a good example, some degradation (inevitable) but still very usable even at 10 years old considering the size and range they had when new.Nissan have been offering an 8 year warranty since the first 30kwhr Leaf (later mk1, the mk2 is 40 or 64) so since 2016. The early ones will be out of warranty next year. The 24kwhr batteries only had a five year warranty so mines been out of warranty for going on four years now.
No one will ever know the correct answer when it comes to reliability statistics, the MTBF models currently show they will last a long time, most failures will occur in early life, the trouble is no one can actually predict which ones will fail or when, even with ICE cars they still have failures even with all of the statistical data they have collected
3 weeks into my EV ownership, I realised on a trip today (to get my 18 month old blackbay 58 fixed but that’s another story) that adapting my driving style makes a huge difference to range - it seems to involve a lot of ‘coasting’ and I’ve discovered there’s a setting on the Cupra Born that effectively knows you’re approaching a roundabout or lower speed section and actually starts to brake for you in advance. I didn’t realise what an effect on range effective regenerative braking can have.
Once you’re used to it I’ve found it makes for a very relaxed way to drive, and combined with the head up display of speed and warning signs etc I think I’m more aware of my speed and possibly look even further ahead than I may have done previously. I also realise I’ve reversed the car up and stuck it on charge this evening without even thinking about it - just to top it back up to 80%
Last edited by RobDad; 29th December 2023 at 23:05.
Also remember up to about 2017 Tesla were coming with free supercharging for life (as well as an 8 year battery warranty) so even with this earlier technology they had some confidence in the battery - particularly as many of them were bought for taxi use. Also all the courtesy cars have free SC although I suppose Tesla would be warranting those internally.
It probably had more to do with being a sales technique to reassure potential customers who might have had fears about the longevity and range of their battery and cost of charging. Tell someone they can have warranty and even free servicing for five or ten years and they'll pay attention.
"A man of little significance"
Agreed it was pure sales - hence they stopped it once they had some volume, but the point still remains the batteries would be able to take a fair bit of super charging or they wouldn't have been able to offer it (even if a slightly higher failure rate was factored in) also people hammered these batteries and the internet would be awash with failures if they couldn't take it.
My 2021 62 kWh Leaf reported a battery issue a couple of months ago, not sure why as it was still charging to 100% with no apparent impact on range. The local Nissan garage had not experienced the problem before but diagnosed it to be related to 'Module 7'. It could not be changed locally so it made a short trip to Sunderland where they swapped it the next day. All very seamless and carried out under warranty, and it seems unusual as the Leaf has been around a while and I can't find many other similar issues reported on EV forums.
Don't just do something, sit there. - TNH
These days there charging rate for the older Model S is heavily restricted and it will take 2-3x longer to charge vs something new.
This was the main incentive for me choosing a Model 3 vs a Model S. On longer motorway drives, I'd prefer semi-frequent short stops instead of fewer - but much longer stops. The charge rate is seriously impressive.
I am sure the new stuff charges faster, but I am not sure how restricted it is as my 2017 S was charging at almost 380 mph (118 KW) when I last used a super charger. I can also now use the CCS chargers so Tesla had actually increased the charge rate over when the car was new all be it maybe not as fast as it would be if the battery was new today vs 65,000 miles of use.
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