From one special to another … drive carefullyOriginally Posted by Mj2k
My Lexus is an auto and doesn't like running at 20, it seems to be constantly changing. Plus the cruise and limiter light only work at 30+.
If I put it in sport it'll drop a gear and that helps with the former, though that means when I drive I use more fuel and produce more pollution.
I'd suggest the lowest common denominator are those that won't stick to the speed limit...
Aggressive driving and lack of patience by drivers has created a very dangerous place for cyclists, pedestrians and children.
I think 20 in residential areas a very good idea. However, I also understand that those thickos that won't and don't abide by speed limits will carry on being a danger to others
Very well said
Fail….. you need to imagine you’re just about to hoik up a load of green flem and go from there…
As you well know Tifa……… it’s the Fron. 🤓
Pure conjecture, but it is possible that the Welsh authorities will be happy if people drive at or below 27mph and not issue tickets for lower than that. - which appears to be the attitude in the Borders.
The people who were prepared to do 40 in a 30 might not be so happy with the result of getting caught at twice the posted limit.
Does require a lot of enforcement, though
Little snapshot of the large estate where I live. Apart from the odd lunatic imost people seem to be doing 25-30, whereas before it was more like 30-40. So not 20, but I'd say the average speed has definitely come down which has to be a good thing with all the parked cars, three schools, playgrounds, shops etc dotted about.
Like parents taking kids to school the very ones who should be careful.
Cyclist have made many urban areas dangerous on the pavements etc.etc.in many towns
It has been that way in London for quite some time now and is irritating but one gets used to it, although 2 years back , almost to the day , I was snapped doing 24 m.p.h, and penalised, so, the speed limiter on the car now sees some use.
Exactly, for most cars in the uk the engine calibrations are optimised to start coping reliably around 30 in top gear, manual or auto, if cars are going to be expected to cope with long periods at 20 adjustments will need to be made, especially diesel cars, who’s DPFs won’t be getting hot enough to work properly, but there are people on here who seem to know much better
Then why not drive in a lower gear ?
Neither aggressive driving or patience is speed related though. You can achieve both at 20mph.
If a cyclist can go 15mph I’d rather be able to use 30mph to safely pass vs only a 5mph window at 20mph to minimise the danger time of the manoeuvre.
You can, but for how far, my cars have double clutch paddle shift gearboxes, they really wouldn’t like it, if I were driving a small cc town car at 20 mph it wouldn’t be an issue
I would have thought most drivers would struggle to keep their car at or below 20mph for any length of time - even in a geared car you’re constantly swapping cogs to keep within the band of 15-25 mph - it seems to me they’re not really designed to stay at that low a speed for very long. Throw in speed bumps, inclines etc and it gets ever trickier. Not impossible but very tricky. Compared to 30mph where 3rd gear is enough to keep moving without the risk of stalling, it is a faff. And that’s nothing to do with driving skill - just the way the gearing is set up. An electric car on the contrary is easy to keep at 20, but nobody can hear you coming!
Auto box?
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
At a steady 20mph, tyre noise is very similar on any car, tyres punt out around 70dB just by rolling on the road.
An accelerating ICE or a loud exhaust will be more noticeable, obviously, but in all cases the onus is on the driver to be aware of other road users and drive accordingly.
A slush box uses the engine torque the engine calibration would still need modifying, it’s all doable just not how the are optimised now
Can we live in hope, or is that not woke?
Case of having to drop a gear on Mrs Tifa's car.
30mph....it's happy in 3rd
20mph....needs to be in 2nd.
Car is a 17 plate BMW116 Diesel.
I'm no expert, but I'm guessing this is likely to increase emissions exactly where you don't want them increased?
If a pedestrian walked out in front me at 20mph on the motorbike, I would probably fall over due to low speed instability long before I arrived at the accident.
Riding a motorbike at a steady 15-20mph can be dangerous unless the road is pot hole free and in good condition.
Typical entitled driver response.
There are plenty of brainless drivers on the road too who'll make mistakes at pedestrian crossings, etc.
Isn’t the issue here more the confusion as to what the limit actually is, due to the broad, under-funded and poorly thought out nature of its implementation, rather than the “lower speed is safer” initiative?
I’d have thought a ten-year project to slowly roll out properly signed, well-targeted 20mph zones would more effectively bring people with it.
Anyway, what’s all this “my car won’t do twenty” crap about? Seriously?
I would have been struggling to get a speeding ticket in this one.
I was having to pull over to let faster traffic overtake - in a 30mph zone!
I had it in part-exchange; it lasted three days. I went to one lunchtime car club meeting and as soon as I returned placed an advert to sell it.
The best part - it was marketed in the 1930s as the "Standard Flying 9"!
Maye thay can be 'chipped'?
Exactly this. It would have been much clearer if they had simply said every road is 20 unless it's an A, B or M road, rather than sections varying every 500 metres.
It must be annoying when you have a box full of gears, but you just can't find the right one.
In case anyone is interested, I found my correct stat - the following are incidence of death following collision with a pedestrian whilst driving at
20mph - 1%
30mph - 7%
40mph - 31%
I was actually advised to put the car in sports mode when driving in a 20mph zone
I thought they said: "Every road marked at 30mph will now be 20mph". It seems simple to me, although there might be a caveat like "we'll still have a few 30mph zone but we'll let you know where they are later".
if you're not safe on a road @20mph, regardless of the state of the road, I suggest you leave your motorbike in the garage and get a refresher from your riding school.
I am not sure the scheme was designed to reduce emissions; in any case the increased rpm may not be that significant at the reduce speed.
Last edited by Saint-Just; 18th December 2023 at 10:44.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
That was the original stance, but it's not that simple. It was supposed to be something about the distance between light posts that defined it (honestly I'm not making this stuff up) but councils can apply for changes to the limit.
Hence why my road is currently 20 from the left and 30 from the right at the moment. The main road from mine changes maybe 3 times in a 1.5 mile stretch, and when you get to the traffic lights the box is 30 but the entry and exit 20, so it's 30 for literally about 10 metres.
You need to keep your eyes peeled constantly and it's quite mentally exhausting. My sat nav would tell me but it's completely out of date and thinks everything is 30 and it's expensive to update, plus I don't think they have all the updates baked in yet.
This didn't happen, some 30mph roads in my county and the county where my dad lives stayed 30mph from the beginning.
My sense of logic tells me my vehicle is less efficient doing the same distance in a lower gear, but the science says speeding up to 30mph and back down again between every junction, set of lights etc is more harmful. Makes sense.
I'm safe enough thanks - so long as no-one tries to walk into me from the pavement.
I will ask the class-1 police driving instructor about taking avoiding action at low speed on a motorbike at my next advanced car driving test.
30mph Limit referred to lamp posts being <200yds apart so not really different in that regard.
at 20mph I suggest you try squeezing the right side lever on your handlebar while pressing down firmly on the right pedal. That should do it. If it doesn't you probably would not have had enough time to take enough avoiding action at 30mph to escape the accident.
(According to this, you would have 3m to start your evading action when travelling at 13.4 metres per second)
Last edited by Saint-Just; 18th December 2023 at 11:49.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
100% agree with the emissions produced by having to do so but the alternative is to collect points on your license.
So, the law finds itself at a bit of a WTF situation I guess.
Put that to the already long list of laws that don't necessarily add up for whatever reason...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0zbZweqlZPw
Thus was seven years ago
All modern cars have automatic collision avoidance, it thinks a lot faster than humans
I get that but my graph was an illustration for motorbikes, which afaik are not yet equipped with ACA. Many do, however, have ABS which may shorten the braking distance (but not the reaction time, which I was illustrating)
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Not seeing that at all, and your reaction time/distance is greatly improved at the lower speed.
I believe he means an e-bike, a bicycle with electric pedal assist, which should be limited to cut off pedal
assist at 15.5mph/25kmh.
Last edited by robcuk; 18th December 2023 at 15:01.
the yokels will prb sort this out, everytime i visit my sister in south wales most of the speed cameras have a tyre hung on them and are set on fire , my sister says they have already started spraying over the 20mph signs.
Aye, sheephylis does have a tendancy to send people mental
I inferred from this statement that the pedal assist would not cut out from 15.5mph, the "stuff the rules" bit giving the impression that this new home built ebike would now allow the higher than 20mph ...
If he is simply cycling over 20mph then of course no problem ... apart from the problem of breaking the speed limit ... which only applies to motor vehicals.
Last edited by Montello; 18th December 2023 at 16:32.
BBC Wales did a drive through a section of road in S.Wales about six weeks ago for the evening news. I think they recorded something like six or seven changes in limit over one point five miles. It was beyond laughable.
Again I reiterate, I have no issue with the 20mph, its the application and lack of joined up thinking that saddens me. Just today Im obeying the 20mph when a little old lady in a Huyundai I10 or similar pulls out and beetles off at 30 plus. The revenue generated will be the next headline on the Welsh news when someone asks for a FOI request in Spring.
I just did a little experiment, I drove down a very quiet road and tried to do 20 mph, pretty much every time I touched the throttle the car went over 20, normally 23-24, it was pretty much impossible, the other interesting thing, normal MPG is about 30 mpg give or take, at 20 ish it returns 11 mpg
In BANES I know someone who got a ticket at 23
Sounds like they are making an immediate stand, but my ease off yet.
BUT - one way of cooling speeder's jets - is to load their license a bit.
Diesel’s ain’t going to like 20mpg they will soon clog the filter up, so then we will get loads of Welshies coming over the border to thrash the life out of them, to clean them out.
I know I won’t be going anywhere near Wales in the TR6 no way will that run at 20mpg.
Stick to main roads, back roads, mountain roads and country lanes and you will hardly encounter any 20 limits, just the odd quarter or half of a mile at a time through small villages. Most of these roads I'd assume would keep your lovely TR6 happiest anyway.
I was going to say something similar, it’s not like the whole of Wales is 20mph, and who is going to be driving or riding exclusively in 20mph zones anyway?
Indeed, cross the Severn Bridge and you can get to the far side of Pembrokeshire before hitting a 20, nearly all the way across the south. Not very familiar at all with the north, but I'll bet you can do something broadly similar there too if you so choose.
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