Reply With QuoteFirst thing I noticed is, look at the state of his work area. Shocking.
Obviously the amplitude is quite low, did he replace the mainspring at service?
I had my Val 92 autavia serviced recently and it was running at +1 sec for a few weeks but after I let it wind down and then wound it again, the accuracy degraded to somewhere around -30 secs per day. I brought it back and the watchmaker adjusted it again, then sent me these before and after timegrapher readings.
I am ignorant of what they mean other than the obvious change from -29 secs to +19 secs. I'm wondering if anything can be deduced from them and if there's any further information for which I can ask that will help determine whether this problem is likely to recur or if some further repair is necessary.
before
after
First thing I noticed is, look at the state of his work area. Shocking.
Obviously the amplitude is quite low, did he replace the mainspring at service?
Cheers,
Ben
..... for I have become the Jedi of flippers
" an extravagance is anything you buy that is of no earthly use to your wife "
The amplitude is terrible and should be at least 250 if it was serviced properly, the line or lines should be flat and not wobbling all over the place, the beat error isn't showing but the two lines are very far apart so he hasn't bothered to adjust that, and finally, just look at the state of that bench.
I've seen 50 year old Seiko's that have never been serviced putting out a better timegrapher prints than that.
When you say serviced did he do a full strip down etc and charge accordingly, or was it just a quick adjustment of the regulator? If it was the former then I'd strongly advise taking it somewhere else and I'd be asking for a full refund as well.
This was a 480 pound service purportedly requiring disassembly, not just an adjustment. He claims to have replaced the mainspring.Originally Posted by Dynam0humm
I don't want to be unreasonable but I'd like to get my money's worth. Would an appropriate response be that the readings do not appear to be those of a properly functioning movement, ask why the amplitude isn't at least 250 given that the watch was serviced with a new mainspring, why the lines are wobbling rather than flat, and why the beat error isn't showing on the display? My guess is he's going to argue that this is what can be expected from a 50+ year old movement.
He says the watch was fully wound when he put it on the timegrapher.
When I initially picked up the serviced watch it would not start when wound down and I had to return it for him to adjust. I'm now wondering if a high beat error was part of the problem.
Last edited by bitt3n; 3rd November 2023 at 23:59.
If the beat error is higher than 9.9ms then it may not show anything on that model of timegrapher and I suspect that's what's going on here. For reference, you want to see no more than 0.5ms on a freshly serviced watch over five positions and 0.5 will look like two parallel lines with a very small gap between them. Excessive beat error will also make it hard for the watch to start as you'll have to give it a good shake to get the impulse jewel on the balance wheel to start interacting with the pallet fork and then fire into life.
I'd be looking for at least 250 and hopefully closer to 300 degrees of amplitude when dial up, then you measure crown up, crown down, 6 high and then dial down for a full picture of how it's running, but in this case the shape of the trace and low amplitude tells me enough - it needs serviced properly, and if he's given it a full strip down as he claims then there's something very worn within the train wheels and it all needs to come apart again and something replaced. Some watches tend to run at a lower amplitude where 220 might be acceptable, but a good V92 should be over 250.
Pages 14 and 15 here give a rough guide on how to read what the timegrapher is telling you, but given the pictures he's sent you and I'm assuming he thinks they're acceptable I wouldn't let him near the watch again.
Last edited by Dynam0humm; 4th November 2023 at 00:23.
He didn’t use any of that Vaseline on your watch, did he?
That's for when he's sending the invoice.
My electronics workbenches are orders of magnitude cleaner and tidier - if I'm so much as changing a watch battery the bench still gets a thorough clean-down first! How the hell anyone can meaningfully service a mechanical wristwatch amidst such squalor is beyond me... I suppose the timegrapher results suggests the answer is "not with much success"!
LOL!
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OP; I'd say that your watch hasn't been serviced at all. Even prior to service, my Fortis chrono had an amplitude of 270° dropping to 230° with the chronograph running, and that hadn't been serviced properly in fifteen years.
After the service it was 305° (290°-295° with chronograph running) and it's never outside of +1.5 to +2spd regardless of wearing or position.
Also it was done by Paul Walker on here who charged less than half of what your watchmaker charged you.
I'd be asking for a very good explanation as to why it's running like a POS.
I’m shocked he sent those pictures. Does he operate inside a tent made out of black bin bags?
I wouldn’t be sending it back. Horrible amount of money but cut your losses there I think. Argue for a refund or partial refund.
He has asked to have another go at it and then give me a refund if I'm not satisfied. I responded that I'd rather just take the refund. Waiting to hear back from him. Thanks for everyone's advice, in particular Dynam0humm's detailed explanation.
His reviews on Google were great but in retrospect I imagine many of them were for simpler issues like changing out a battery, and it was foolish of me not to have sent the watch off to one of people recommended on this forum.
Good lord, that work bench is a bomb site.
When I first saw the pics I thought ok, I’m glad this guy hasn’t opened it and then when I read that he was the watchmaker I was shocked haha.
If this is the result of one of their services they should perhaps consider another career!
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This deserves a V post in H&V - shocking.
I notice nothing has moved on the workbench between the two pictures. Truly amazed (in a bad way).
He’s already had 2 “goes” - time for a full refund including any postage costs. You’ve got the law on your side. Consumer rights act etc.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 4th November 2023 at 20:04.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Imagine if he had cleaned the bench for the picture.
Christ almighty - state of that bench!!! The guy clearly doesn’t have a clue what he’s doing. Definitely H&V worthy (when you have your refund in hand) as a warning to other TZ-UKers
There's a complete mobile phone number visible on one of those bits of paper. I wonder if they were similarly happy with their service?
Wait until he (hopefully) gets his money back first.
The worst thing is the cups.
I'll post the name of the shop after I retrieve my watch and receive a refund (assuming I he honors his word).
He agreed to give me a refund, but just now I noticed that he has deleted the Whatsapp message in which he said this, which is not encouraging. I believe I'm still within the window during which I'm able to dispute the credit-card transaction.
He did indeed give me a refund without argument. The shop is Variety Time Clock and Watch Repairs of London.
I have posted a thread in H&V linking to this one. Thanks again for everyone's advice.
Glad you got the justified refund, scary these people exist.
Can’t believe that was a bricks and mortar store and not a tent in his garden.
What an odd review. Maybe it’s not genuine and that’s why many others wouldn’t touch it? Praise be to heaven that you fixed my old watch.
Jesus!Can’t believe that was a bricks and mortar store and not a tent in his garden.
What an odd review. Maybe it’s not genuine and that’s why many others wouldn’t touch it? Praise be to heaven that you fixed my old watch.
Glad you got it sorted and thanks for posting a H&V. Just goes to show we’re pretty lucky here to have a few good independents who come highly recommended 👍
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