Reply With QuoteIt sounds like a very complicated situation. First stop could be the Citizens Advice. They can be very good at this sort of problem and often have lawyers working pro bono for them.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
I am going to try and help an elderly and frail relative with a financial problem and don't really know where to start. Some advice on an initial starting point would be very much appreciated.
The DWP have been in touch with them over the summer via a telephone interview. Based on the information they provided, which I believe to be correct, they now owe £20k in overpaid housing benefit. This is because the other tenant (housing association joint tenancy) at the property was apparently working over the last 10 years and has contributed nothing in rent.
They started as a flatmate at the property and then got on to the tenancy with the agreement of the relative. There has not been any romantic relationship.
The relative is dyslexic and has apparently always struggled with filling out forms. They would always have relied on the other tenant to fill out the forms for benefits, this has not been definitively proven yet. Although there has been one recent instance of proof of them doing so for another purpose.
In a very brief telephone conversation, the other tenant said that they are not responsible for the debt as they should have been paid for being a carer. They have not paid anything substantial towards energy bills, household insurance etc. My understanding is that was the accepted trade off for having someone around that voluntarily cooked some meals, did some joint shopping etc. The relative did not need any support from outside agencies up until about eight months ago, which was when a home care worker started coming in once a day. Due to recent frailty that care has been increased to three times a day.
The other tenant has said to a social worker that they have been paying £200 cash a month to the tenant. I believe this to be complete nonsense that cannot be substantiated by the tenant in any way.
There are some real safeguarding concerns about approaching this head on with the tenant. They will just lie anyway. But maybe that is the starting point?
It sounds like a very complicated situation. First stop could be the Citizens Advice. They can be very good at this sort of problem and often have lawyers working pro bono for them.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
That is a very tricky situation. As stated above, Citizens Advice will be worth a call / visit. The other problem is that DWP won’t deal with you or anyone other than the tenant / housing benefit claimant because of data protection regs. I will assume you don’t have power of attorney.
Legally, if your person isn’t and hasn’t been mentally incapable (wrong phrase I know), has changed their tenancy agreement to include someone else and hasn’t reported that change to DWP (it’s irrelevant whether the other person has paid anything - it’s actually worse if they have as that’s then an income for your person and the overpayment will be bigger) then I’m afraid they won’t have a leg to stand on. Non declaration of a material change, possible undeclared income and overpayment of housing benefit aren’t going away. If your person is on Income Support or any other benefits that this material change affects then expect more overpayment letters.
The dyslexia element won’t count for anything. If they have diagnosed learning difficulties then you might have a case. I predict the outcome will be having to repay the overpayment in full but the circumstances might prevent any prosecution. I have personal experience of that happening.
You can’t just call yourself a carer either, there are conditions to be satisfied and applying those retrospectively is nigh on impossible as you need to prove incapacity at points in the past.
Sorry that sounds bleak but it comes from a place of experience both professionally and personally (not me by the way - just to be clear) - so there isn’t any point in me saying it’ll be OK.
Best of luck.
Last edited by TaketheCannoli; 23rd October 2023 at 13:27.
If it all goes badly, does your relative have the £20k to repay the DWP?
Actually I meant to mention that, if there’s no means to repay that they’ll set up a payment plan based on income and benefits which is usually negligible to be honest. The chances of ever paying it all back are virtually zero.
Originally Posted by noTAGlove
Thank you all for your replies. To be honest the general tone is what I expected.
They don’t have the £20k. There isn’t a power of attorney in place yet, it is being processed. I will speak to Citizens advice.
Cheers
Matt
Does your relative have any "professional" support, Social worker etc. If not may be worth a request to Social Services to include a Capacity assessment under the mental capacity legislation (known as a MCA in the jargon). Cheers, John B4
Hi op.
Does any of this require police involvement?
I do wonder about that. I will see what happens when I speak to the overpayment team, I'm hoping the relatives verbal permission will be enough to allow me to do so.
Thanks for this. They do have a social worker that is fully aware of the situation. I have messaged them about it again today. I will reference the MCA to them.
I'm hoping for this outcome, at worst. Then I will have to plan for the other tenants future liability.
Last edited by Matt London; 23rd October 2023 at 16:47. Reason: to add at worst
One point to bear in mind is that joint tenants who don’t happen to be in a relationship or otherwise related to each other, could be regarded as having half/50 per cent liability for the rent charge. Assuming the elderly tenant in question is still entitled to Housing Benefit, depending on her income she could be be entitled to have her half of the rent charge covered, minus a reduction from her ongoing entitlement to pay back the previous overpayment. If there isn’t an ongoing entitlement the local authority will issue a bill for recovery and settle for a repayment plan.
My concern is that if the other tenant doesn’t pay his or her half of the rent charge and arrears accrue, then the housing association will take action that could ultimately result in eviction proceedings. There probably wouldn’t have been an ongoing rent charge when the local authority was paying Housing Benefit without taking into account the other tenant’s income, but there certainly will be now.
What puzzles me here is that the elderly tenant would have been the Housing Benefit claimant. The local authority would have requested details of the second tenant’s income. Who was completing the Housing Benefit review forms that would have been previously issued? I know that most local authorities have moved away from paper applications and reviews to online applications and phone reviews nowadays. Is the elderly tenant at risk of financial exploitation by the other tenant?
On the subject of Housing Benefit overpayment recovery rates from ongoing entitlement: These can vary from a couple of pounds a week to an amount considerably more. The elderly tenant will end up with a rent charge. She’s more likely to pay this, but what about the other tenant if he or she decides not to pay their half of the rent charge?
Last edited by seabiscuit; 23rd October 2023 at 20:22.
Hi Seabiscuit, thanks for your reply.
I believe that it would have been the other tenant that completed the benefit forms, with the relatives signature on any paperwork.
I believe that financial exploitation has likely occurred. The energy bills, home insurance etc come out of the relatives account.
I think I will start by providing the benefits people with the social workers contact details and the suggestion of exploitation.
Can I also suggest you ask DWP to pause any further action pending Police involvement. Just takes the immediate pressure off a bit.
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