I decided to send in my vintage titanium Orca to Citizen UK for a service / new module and crown etc at a cost of £75 which I thought was reasonable.
After chasing them for progress after 5 weeks of hearing nothing, they finally admitted to the fact that they were unable to remove the caseback, but in trying to do so they had damaged the caseback as below!
Quite astonishing.
They agreed to send me a new Orca as compensation but I wanted to warn other TZ’ers to tread very carefully when returning watches to Citizen UK for service…
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That would be very upsetting if the watch had a sentimental attachment.
However if it was just an old watch you had laying around, a brand new watch seems like rather good customer service to me and should be applauded. That’s quite a result.
The damage to your original watch does not inspire confidence, but their willingness to admit their fault and solve the issue does.
Last edited by Sinnlover; 14th August 2023 at 16:30.
I have the same model Orca so thanks for posting that.
Excusing my ignorance but do titanium watches require different case back removal tools and they have used the wrong type?
I might expect a local jeweller to lack the experience but you'd hope to goodness that the Citizen Service Center would know how to work with one of their own watches.
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I had a similar problem with Seiko UK when I sent a watch back for regulation. I didnt notice at first when it came back but found a massive fingerprint on the rotor. I sent it off to one of our watch repair folk on the forum who gave it a complete clean and service and it was then running perfectly.
Your story at least seems like Citizen had made a mistake and tried to make good that mistake.
It was an old favourite of mine, and they took 5 weeks to admit their mistake. Agreed that their eventual acceptance of the mistake and compensation was good, but it doesn’t completely offset the basic mistake.Originally Posted by Sinnlover
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Holy s**t, some serious torque has gone through that. Looks like they've used it in a strongman competition.
I bet the titanium screw threads have GALLED.
Should've used a 6 pin case wrench, with stubby AL6061 pins or steel with PET film.
Last edited by Bry1975; 14th August 2023 at 19:34.
I though ‘galling’ was the reason most Titanium watches have a back cover made of a different material - like steel? As I understand it over time titanium sticks to itself permanently, especially when compressed together like a screw down caseback.
When I bought my Aerospace, someone told me that was the reason it had a snap back case.
Which version of Aerospace was that? The case back on my Aerospace Avantage is held in place with 6 screws. The screws are titanium too.
Best Regards - Peter
I'd hate to be with you when you're on your own.
Dremel grinding point will confirm if the caseback is titanium.
It's all a lottery. I've had servicing issues with Breitling and Rolex.
I`ve worked on a few titanium watches and never had problems with screw-down casebacks, but I`ve a had a few steel ones that were almost impossible to remove owing to over-tightening in the past or crevice corrosion in the threads combined with over-tightening.
Clearly, this one is extremely tight, a 3 point tool has been used with a lot of force and unfortunately it's caused damage. I suspect something's happened to the threads, hard to see how it could've been overtightened to sufficient extent to prevent removal.
One trick that might work is an unusual one I learned last year, faced with a 60s Omega with a caseback that was locked solid, I broke a pin on my case opener trying it was that tight! The trick involves supergluing a socket to the caseback, allowing the glue to cure for 30 mins, clamping the case in a vice and using a socket wrench to twist it off. I didn`t believe this would work but gave it a try, I used the largest socket I could find and filed a sight champer on it to increase surface contact, thus giving the adhesive the best chance to work. To my surprise and delight this trick worked, I estimate the force needed to twist it off at around 30 lb.ft but the adhesive held. One point to bear in mind is how the case is clamped, transmitting force to the lugs will bend them or worse!
Removing the socket from the caseback was easy, simply run some acetone down the socket and let it soak, the glue softens and the socket can be removed.
Supergluing a large nut to the back is another variant, might be possible to get more surface contact than the socket.
+1 on that method.
Recently, I had a very stubborn caseback that would not come off and I found a you tube video that suggested superglueing a nut to it. The watch wasn't an expensive one so I thought I'd give it a go. Having initially glued the nut on I then filled the nut 'well' with more glue and left it for a couple of days to ensure it dried properly.
Like you, I was amazed when a quick turn of a ring spanner on the nut and the case back came off easily.
I was very pleased with myself - my wife less so, as I used up most of her nail varnish remover to soak the superglue away and remove the nut from the case back!
The superglue trick is one I never thought would work, but it did! Only note of caution is to think carefully about how the watch is clamped, on a watch with slim lugs there's a very real chance of bending or snapping them if you're not careful, all the force has to go somewhere.
Another problem I`ve found concerns the green Viton caseback seals that some manufacturers like to use. I`ve come a cross a couple of examples where the seal has stuck to the caseback and causing it to be v. tight to remove, had one recently and even after cracking the initial tension the caseback was stiff to turn. I suspected damaged threads but found nothing wrong, it was the seal that was causing the problem. I don`t like these seals, another example of solving a problem that doesn`t need solving in my opinion. I'm familiar with Viton from way back when I had a proper job, it's got good solvent resistance but I don't see how that's relevant for a watch.......Sinn and Damasko clearly think otherwise and I could add Timefactors to that list!
I had a similar experience with them. Brand new unworn black pvd coated AT watch had a mark on the dial.
They fixed the dial but the case came back chipped, case back was scratched and black bracelet was scratched showing the stainless steel below.
Jewelers sent it back to them and it came back with new case, case back and bracelet. No explanation from Citizen as to what had happened.
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Mistakes happen. It's how we put them right that matters.
Good on Citizen I say.
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What I find ironic and very frustrating is the fact that Citizen are reluctant to supply parts to folks like me, it's becoming the norm in the watch business and it's completely without justification. To be brutally honest, these brands don't want to support the repair of their products, especially the older stuff, they want you to buy a new watch every few years. they fail to realise that sentimental attachment is a powerful driver, folks want to have old watches fixed. If the parts are obsolete and no longer exist I`ll accept that, but when a manufacturer has the parts available but refuses to sell them I find that frustrating to say the least.
Vacuum cleaners, washing machines, cars, boats......parts are made available if you wish to fix your own, what's so special about watches?
Quite. Some years ago I sent my old Eagle 7 to Citizen for service, as our local watchmaker had retired. It came back some time later with a note that essentially said "we can't do anything with this old tat, please buy a new one from us".
This was slightly annoying, as I'd contacted them beforehand to arrange the repair. Oh well, at least they didn't send it back damaged.
I wonder whether the EU's keenness on repairable goods will also be applied to watches? It would be good, but I won't hold my breath!
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I don't know the particular model, sorry. Bought it in 2000, has the angled numerals. One of these, except slate grey rather than blue. There's a good pic of the caseback in the URL.
https://www.vintage-portfolio.com/sh...e-dial-quartz/
They didn't have the correct tool for opening it, so they shouldn't have tried. Sad.
Threads on this forum over the years have suggested the same to me in terms of citizens reticence to keep their products going. Lots I’ve read about failing ‘Ray Mears’ movements where apparently Citizen no longer produce parts, and these aren’t exactly vintage watches! - what’s the point of a solar powered movement n a front loading case that’s useless scrap in under 10 years?!?
Maybe a previous tinker/amateur watchmaker had over tightened or shafted the thread.
I thought Seiko were the same. Once a watch is out of production they will support it for 10 years and once parts are used up they give you a discount on the latest model.
Rolex are the same unless you pay extra for the restoration service. I have a letter from Rolex saying they no longer have parts for a watch I own, “sorry we cannot help you “.
Same as home appliances/electronics really. Believe by law they have to keep spares for a certain period (again, 10 years) and beyond that they're essentially disposable.
It probably helps that Seiko use a lot of the same movements in their watches for years - Citizen eco drive movements etc seem to be harder to source parts for in a much shorter timeframe
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