I was kind of naive during the early Sky days BTW. Definitely wanted to believe they were a new era of clean.
Laughable when I look back at it.
There always has been and always will be some form of PED use in every sport, the authorities make efforts to prevent it and protect the athletes as without governance many would take it to excess. If all are involved it’s an even playing field again so still competitive. Bodybuilding has clean and juicing for transparency, it wouldn’t work in all sports especially where so much money is involved and athletes are in teams not individual choice.
RIAC
Are you not familiar with out of competition testing?Originally Posted by Bondurant
Its specifically to catch people who do what you are insinuating above.
Lol. OK they're all clean.
There will always be ways or attempts for foul play. And TdF looks difficult enough to give it a try. Otherwise, those Cols are 3x higher I suppose. Even for pros.
I agree with you that you should be careful and suspisious all the time. Thats what ITA is, during this Tour.
Testing for drugs that have already been outed.
If you are cynical about the sport to such a level I recommend not watching or getting involved in doping debates on the internet. Whats the point.
I watch the Tour as I believe its a great sporting spectacle.
I will be on my bike tomorrow to ride out and watch the stage.
Is that directed at me?
Great stage again and what a mental tour with the time gaps on the podium. That final climb to the finish was agonising to watch!
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It is a general observation. I never understand why those who think pro cycling is dominated by drugs cheats get involved, if I felt that way about it Id just ignore it and follow a sport that I had faith in as a true sporting endeavour.
I see.
Well, I am able to be realistic and still enjoy it. 100thMonkey captures my feelings about it well, and this year's Tour is one of the best I can remember seeing.
But, just because I can't resist:
"Finally, the last thing I'll say to the people who don't believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics: I'm sorry for you. I'm sorry that you can't dream big. I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. But this is one hell of a race. This is a great sporting event and you should stand around and believe it. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it. So Vive le Tour forever!"
I dont think its quite so simple as you imply.
I really enjoy watching the Tour and whether clean or not I am utterly awed by their abilities. I really wanted to believe that they were clean but yesterdays results made my question that belief. I suspect I always had a bit of an unspoken concern and this has crystallised it to a definite fear.
Are you a cyclist? Ever raced? Been following pro cycling long?
I am all 3 and have got engaged in discussions on drugs in cycling many times.
Quoting LA doesn’t have any relevance today, it was a different era, we all knew what was going on and has no relevance to the current era.
Elite sport pushes athletes to the limits of the rule book, some people just can’t get their heads around that and start thinking some things are iffy even though they are within the rules, ever wondered why so may elite athletes have asthma?
As I say I’ll be on the roadside tomorrow cheering on the riders in one of the greatest sporting events in the world.
Edit. Also note that if everyone dopes it’s not a level playing field as some respond more/ better than others.
Last edited by Montello; 19th July 2023 at 20:30.
A cyclist for many years, never raced other than TTs, followed racing since the late 80s.
I think you are wrong in everything you say but respect your right to say it. I quoted Lance because people used to say and believe the exact same thing you are saying.
And you watching a stage adds nothing to your argument. It's nice for you that you're there. I'm watching some racing in London on Saturday. You win I guess.
With that background I dont understand how you can equate the past with the current, pretty much all of my cycling buddies, the media and the police knew what was going in the bad old days and everyone watched the racing with that caveat.
Currently I think we have the best and cleanest race ever.
Im sure there are some dopers in the peloton but its not endemic like it once was, well thats what I believe and of course you are entitled to think they are all cheats. I guess my point was that if I thought they were cheats Id just not be interested.
I literally - see the posts above - said that I believe doping still goes on to some extent. I also said that I thought it wasn't as bad as the past. I also have not said that I believe everyone is at it.
When Lasse Viren (allegedly) did his blood transfusions it was legal. Just like Anquetil and his cocktails
Yet the yellow jersey took 4.5s/km from Pogacar. The last one to do that was Anquetil in 1961!
Even WVA (3rd at almost 3 min) said he was first of the normal people.
I do not believe in miracles. Most climbing speeds this year are records setting.
I believe that what they take is either not (yet) illegal, not yet measured or not yet detected.
Mind, the show is spectacular anyway.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Absolutely.
I watch pretty much all of the cycle racing available on TV, and have been to many Tours and top races in person over the years, it's my favourite sport by far, but when you see such a superhuman effort like yesterday I honestly think questions need to be asked, when people come out and say in effect 'nothing to see here, move along', I think it's being incredibly naive, has history taught you nothing!
I want to believe and hope that I'm wrong.
Oh well time will tell.
My point which Ill attempt one more time is that Id not bother wasting my time watching a sport I considered bent. YMMV.
Enjoy the racing 👍
You are not wasting your time: its quite spectacular at times and worth watching; many people do.
It strange that you need to justify it by ignoring the rise in performance today even compared to the worst of the EPO years, and the delta between the first 2 and the rest of the peloton. It doesnt change that they are exceptional athletes : I believe its Raphael Geminiani who said that if it was only down to the PED, his mailman would win the Tour. I can enjoy the show without emulating the 3 wise monkeys
.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Im not wasting my time, Im enjoying the show. I choose to take a positive view on the situation.You are not wasting your time: its quite spectacular at times and worth watching; many people do.
It strange that you need to justify it by ignoring the rise in performance today even compared to the worst of the EPO years, and the delta between the first 2 and the rest of the peloton. It doesnt change that they are exceptional athletes : I believe its Raphael Geminiani who said that if it was only down to the PED, his mailman would win the Tour. I can enjoy the show without emulating the 3 wise monkeys
Caravan has just gone through. Racers due in 30 minutes.
Nice! Be careful where you position yourself (provided you want to make a selfie)
Well this guy has definitely been on the juice
The pre stage parade and post stage partys are better than watching riders shoot pastWell this guy has definitely been on the juice
RIAC
Aye. That’s true although if you get a good position on a steep climb the riders are impressive to watch.
Also on the big cols the party amongst the crowd as part of the build up is amazing. Some serious drinkers follow the tour.
I rode up the Joux Plane ahead of the race and that was great fun as the crowd give you cheers all the way.
The race organisers make no bones about the consequences of disruption but still alcohol takes over, the 1500 fine the woman received for the Tony Martin incident last year isnt really a deterrent
RIAC
The crowds impinging the race on the climbs is a big problem.
The level of drinking in the heat is mind boggling. I think its beyond the interest of cycling fans now and has become something more.
Maybe they should put a snow plough 20m ahead of the lead riders.
Bloody hell, what a breakaway today. Haven't cheered that hard for one in a long time
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Spectating on the climbs has always been a big thing, most of the riders actually enjoy it too, of course there are always exceptions but considering how many fans are roadside I'm surprised that there aren't more incidence!
Top 14 fan fails!
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/r...n-fails-170030
Going up the Joux Plane at the end of Ltape wasnt much fun 🥵
So I heard. Many suffered with the heat.
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