Reply With Quote
Trouble is that the changes in the law regarding cyclists have encouraged some to ride three abreast, or ride in such a way that they cause huge traffic jams, the law needs amending and reviewed so that poor behaviour by cyclists is punished.
seems to me that cyclists on the receiving end of dangerous driving are often let down by the courts. Time after time some of the most egregious examples of bad driving and road rage are receiving a slap on the wrist instead of time behind bars.
This case seems shocking; https://road.cc/content/news/suspend...cyclist-301999
"Shane pleaded guilty to making threats to kill, dangerous driving, assault by beating, criminal damage, driving with excess alcohol, and failing to provide a specimen for analysis. During an interview he said he had made the threats in the heat of the moment and had not meant them
Shane (69 years old), had a previous conviction for drink driving, and was given a suspended sentence, told to undertake a rehabilitation course, and banned from driving for three years with a requirement to pass an extended retest before resuming driving"
You would think he would be a bit calmer at 69 years of age..
Road CC often has examples of killer drivers receiving p*ss poor sentences. While the above case didn't involve a loss of life it does seem to follow the trend of lenient sentences.
Meanwhile, hit someone's car with a baseball bat, make similar threats and get six months ; https://www.northantslive.news/news/...ll-bat-5942089
also - don't write in the dust on someone's car as you could be fined ; https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/n...nd-2-500-fine/
edit to add ; I have been on the receiving end of a case of 'causing serious injury by careless driving'. While there was no road rage involved the attending PC was useless. Took the drivers word for what happened and never even got a statement from me.. After a good while, during my lengthy time off work I made an official complaint. While it was too late to prosecute the driver the Inspector I spoke to agreed that the Officer had fallen short of what he should have done and received some kind of interview from him and 'something was put on his record'.. Whether that actually happened or not I'll never know..
I'm not saying we are all two wheeled Saints but we usually always end up on the receiving end.. The same as when I used to be a motorcylist.
Cyclists - be careful out there..
Last edited by bry nylon; 20th June 2023 at 20:49.
Trouble is that the changes in the law regarding cyclists have encouraged some to ride three abreast, or ride in such a way that they cause huge traffic jams, the law needs amending and reviewed so that poor behaviour by cyclists is punished.
Cry me some Lycra, I see more cyclists in the city breaking laws of the road than car drivers. Red lights, pavements, crossings.
You want 2m gap being overtaken but when we are slower you will cram your f***ing bike in the smallest of gaps to overtake.
Not everyone is bad, but the minority ruin it for the majority. A bit like the articles you linked to.
Another motorist, exactly.Originally Posted by adrianw
Hardly the same..
Every driver speeds and I see loads every day going through reds when they have just changed . Also loads of them on their phones, which the TRL says is as bad as drink driving..
I Cycle as well, but live in the country and see both sides of this, the legislation has gone too far the other way
Funnily enough a lot of cyclists have taken hands free to a new level, phoning and texting while riding “hands free” but they don’t get prosecuted for it
Every driver speeds.
Get over yourself.
Like me saying every Lycra wearer is at fault.
There does seem to be something akin to a culture war between motorists and cyclists at the moment. Jeremy Vine seems to be doing his best to fan the flames, for one. I've definitely noticed more hostility and aggressive behaviour from motorists this last couple of years.
Having said that - cyclists can be annoying for sure. Hate to see people riding two abreast and holding up traffic.
I've literally never seen that.
2 abreast is easier whilst giving them space.
Shoot past wide, fast and loud.
The bit that annoys me is they want all the space when being overtaken but don’t need it themselves, when they can scratch cars without any insurance and then bugger off.
Twice in the last year.
I have loads of times, cyclists and E-scooters should be subject to the same laws as cars. And pay VED of some sort
There’s nothing wrong with two abreast. You should be on the other side of the road overtaking cyclists anyway to give them plenty of room so no real problem if cyclists are two abreast.
Many drivers are just too impatient. Stay behind, stay patient, overtake with plenty of room for cyclist when it is safe to do so.
Why is that? Maybe all cars should pay it first.
Because the use the roads, most vehicles do pay it, all vehicles are subject to car purchase tax.
Assuming there is traffic coming in the opposite direction, how long should an overtaking car wait, one minute? Ten minutes? Fifteen minutes?, the cyclists should accommodate overtaking cars wherever possible, unfortunately an increasing number refuse to.
They have negligible effect cost on the upkeep of roads and should be encouraged for environmental reasons.
Most cars might pay but many don't.
Cars drivers don’t pay for the upkeep of the roads, they pay to use them, I cycle all over Essex and Hertfordshire and would be happy to pay.
All day everyday in london and Essex.
Well okay, roads are funded by general taxation of which VED is a part. The road use of a cyclist is a lot less than that of a car. What about someone walking in the road, suppose they should pay too.
They're not being very environmentally friendly when there's a queue of 20 cars behind them in 2nd gear going up a hill.
Or a lorry stuck behind, and them a hundred cars behind that
Yes, that's a daily occurrence.
Come and have a look at the Pelotons of cyclists we see most weekends in the Peak District near us. Many of the roads are just wide enough for two cars yet we get groups of cyclists, often three abreast, totalling a dozen or more as a rolling road block. They’re aware there’s other vehicles wanting to pass, but are not able to do so as the road simply isn’t wide enough. Do they move over to allow a safe overtake? Perhaps ride in single g file for a minute? Not usually. There’s a kind of f**k you attitude. And they wonder why the locals hate them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
because it's people 'on bikes'* rather than 'cyclists' who do this.
*usually a delivery/e-bike or a drug dealer pavement bike.
I overtook a cyclist the other day, on a main road, making sure to leave a car’s width between us. Almost immediately the traffic slowed for no apparent reason. (It was roadworks a way ahead)
Suddenly I sensed movement on my right and the warning light in the door mirror lit up.
The cyclist was now keeping pace with my car on the offside level with the drivers door about 18 inches away.
Then as we slowed more he proceeded to cut across very close in front of me and go up the inside of the car in front.
Luckily I had the calming effects of a Werthers original so just found it all amusing.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
A personal bug bear is when cyclists don't use the cycle lanes - seems to be primarily the recreational cyclists (MAMILs) and I wonder if they do this because using the cycle lane means they ride slower than on the main road? It's certainly not the condition of the cycle lanes as these seem to be very well maintained around these parts.
The issue with this is that roads have often been narrowed to facilitate said cycle lanes and if the cyclists are still using the (now narrower) road instead of their shiny new cycle lane then it adds hazard as for sure some idiot in a car or van will get fed up and zoom past them with 3 inches to spare.
Cycling is good for health and the environment. But roads were designed for cars, not bikes, so cyclists need to accommodate, be considerate and most importantly be safe.
Last edited by ryanb741; 20th June 2023 at 23:20.
roads were designed for horse and cart, the motorcar is a relatively modern invention.
roads are not narrow, it's the cars that have increased in size.
Pretty sure there were no horse and carts around when the estate I live on was built.
pretty sure horses are still around?
lot of posters trotting out the usual 'anti cycling bingo' but seem to be missing my point.
I just found it astonishing that the person in the road rage incident I posted never went to prison for "pleading guilty to making threats to kill, dangerous driving, assault by beating, criminal damage, driving with excess alcohol, and failing to provide a specimen for analysis. During an interview he said he had made the threats in the heat of the moment and had not meant them"
with a previous conviction for drink driving I thought just that aspect alone would see him being sent down.. In this case I don't believe the cyclist in question had actually done that much to 'wind up' the driver..
Going back to the 'bingo', every day when I'm driving my small van, I'm held up by other drivers, lorries and buses etc - far more often and for longer than by a few cyclists, whether in groups or not. How come they never get mentioned or 'raged' at?
Last edited by bry nylon; 21st June 2023 at 04:34.
I think it’s down to where you live or drive, it is very popular around here for groups of cyclists and hold ups are a regular occurrence. It only takes a few with a bad attitude.
I'm not anti cyclist just pro respect for other road users. We get lots of cyclists round here. The guys on mountain bikes don't seem to have a problem moving over to help the traffic flow freely.
ok, how about virtually all drivers speed then, is that better?
Do you stick to 20, 30 and 70 mph limits in your Porsche at all times?
I think you're failing to acknowledge the reality of poor or selfish driving that we all witness every day, while saying "but cyclists...."
It is still dire the way that car drivers treat cyclists, BUT - from what I have experienced, in general - drivers have been scared by the media reporting of motorists being prosecuted for endangering cyclists - and there appears (to me) to be more distance given.
Cyclists sometimes don't help, BUT - they don't deserve to be killed.
To lighten the mood perhaps, who is in the wrong here?
https://youtu.be/5jWvAxjG0kg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When I saw the OP I knew this topic would develop this way, cycling threads on this forum generally degenerate this way. There is a very active cycling thread on this forum and most of those who contribute on that thread don't engage with these topics because they have all had these discussions a million times with the anti brigade and have learned it is pointless.
You can positively feel the illogical rage that many harbour ... it must be a heavy weight to carry.
In a country with an obesity crisis and traffic chaos you'd think the smart people would all be pro cycling and supporters of active transport but seems cyclists remain a hate group for many ...
Yes there are some idiots on bikes that annoy people, just as there are some idiots in cars that drive selfishly and create risk for others.
An idiot in car is much more likely to be a problem for you that and idiot on a bike who is likely to put themselves at risk ...
For the haters here are some others at which you could target your rage at to give us cyclists a day of ...
1) People in Range Rovers who block the roads because they can't get their enormous vehicles through a gap that a normal car would easily pass through ...
2) People in Porsches who drive excessively over the speed limit in their flash car thinking they are Lewis Hamilton
3) School run mums who drive 1 mile to school and park inconsiderately at the school gate so fat little Jonny doesn't have to waddle more than 50m to school
4) Big fat smokers who burden the NHS with this self inflicted health problems
5) Drink / Drugged drivers who put us all at risk at their own selfish actions
6) Drivers with no VED / MOT / Insurance that don't contribute to the system
... I could go on but you get the idea ...
Have a nice day all ...
I don't think this is necessarily against cyclists. Although I am a road cyclist and in the UK it is a rare ride when I get home without witnessing some numpty stuff from both car or cyclist. And I often ride by myself so the whole 3-abreast thing isn't the issue, but I won't be drawn into car vs cyclist arguments.
The problem is the car isn't viewed as a dangerous weapon by the courts.
Just look what happens when someone is killed by a driver who is very clearly in the wrong - be it drunk, drugs or rage.
Pathetic sentences for even the very worst tragedies.
Our attitude is the car is king. And that needs to change.
I lived in Baslow for a few years and had many slow drives out of the village over the tops to either Sheffield or Chesterfield, held up in huge queues of traffic caused by cyclists riding three abreast in large groups. Initially it really irked me, but then I just accepted that they were doing nothing wrong in terms of breaking any particular rules. We all share the roads together, and riding my motorbike I recognised that one person's pleasure is another person's annoyance (the groups of Harleys riding past my house on Calver Road that were deafening were a standout feature), so it was probably equally likely that my enjoyment of the open road was very possibly causing irritation to someone else.
One thing that has really pissed me off recently is a local cycling club who come to a bar in Harrogate on a Thursday evening. They're a mixed group but comprised mostly of aged 50+ individuals who should probably know better than coming in and drinking 2 or 3 pints each and then riding home. Most of them if breathalyzed would be over the limit. It's not been acceptable for decades now to do that as a motorist, so why is it ok on a bike? It just seems so brazen to be doing it with branded club lycra tops and shorts too.
It's pretty stupid to drink and cycle, although it is not an offense. If I were you I'd contact the club secretary and point out that what they are doing is both unacceptable and bringing their club into disrepute ... I would hope that would get a positive response. They may also have a club sponsor on their jersey who you could contact as I'm sure they wouldn't want to be associated with such poor actions.
I guess the other drinkers in the pub that later climbed into their cars after 2-3 pints were less identifiable ...
I'm an active participant in a number of threads on here as a keen cyclist, motorcyclist and driver. I have been known to walk and run along country lanes too.
I agree that all of these cycling threads generally all too quickly descend into car v's cyclist media whipped up nonsense. To me it's all simply about tolerance and patience. Despite what any of us might think about our specific journey we should not automatically feel entitled to assume that what we are doing is any more important or justifiable than what anyone else is doing. I can't help but wonder if these people who fly into catatonic rages at the mere sight of lycra (why do thy always feel obliged to mention what anyone is wearing?) do the same when they come across horse riders (a common thing in my neck of the woods)?
The current amendments in the law have encouraged a select few cyclists to misbehave, which generates friction, because of this it needs reviewing, it has little to do with entitlement.
Has it really though ... is the road awash with cyclists wilfully riding 3 abreast deliberately baulking traffic?
I don't think I have ever encountered this whilst driving, but I have often been stuck behind a Range Rover (or similar large SUV) who can't get past a parked car that I could have easily passed in my normal sized hatchback ...
When cycling it is uncomfortable to have cars backed up behind you and every cyclist I know would single out or pull over to allow traffic to pass ...
I'm not saying there aren't idiots cyclists out there but I suspect they are such a minority that they are not worth anyone's rage ...
And I’m pretty sure they don’t design roads around them.
The juxtaposition of cycle riders with their horse counterparts does not work. The horse can be spooked (by a car or anything else) and there is nothing the rider can do but try to recover control; this doesn't happen immediately.
I ride and drive and can certainly confirm that the attitude of drivers towards horses differ markedly from that towards riders, at least in my neck of the woods. Add to that, horse riding on the road is usually kept to an absolute minimum.
As a cyclist I find drivers quite respectful and polite. Maybe it has to do with being a driver myself, and doing my best to get out of their way (stopping on the side if on a narrow lane rather than block them for a couple of miles for example, or waving them through as soon as I can visually confirm the road is clear). I do not understand why this appears not to be the norm.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
[QUOTE=Montello;6231445]It's pretty stupid to drink and cycle, although it is not an offense.
It is an offence to drink and cycle (1988 RTA S.30) unless something has changed.
An idiot is an idiot, whether on four wheels, two wheels, or on foot. I’ve seen many examples of profound foolishness from every category of road user over the years…
To the OP’s point, I agree that given previous, the particular idiot in the case might have had a bigger book thrown at him at higher velocity. If the sentence is unduly lenient it can be corrected at appeal, though. He’s probably an idiot when he’s on the bus as well.
I try to share the road as equably as I can. Even if a cyclist does something outrageously stupid and dangerous, the consequences are far, far worse for him than for me if I hit him with my car, so I drive accordingly. I don’t think I’d find much comfort in “being in the right” if I killed or seriously injured someone even if it wasn’t my fault.
Also, I’ve been run over while cycling. It was rubbish, and is why I won’t cycle on the roads at all. The idea of putting someone else through that in order to arrive at my destination a few seconds, or minutes, earlier just doesn’t compute for me. If occasionally frustrated, I breathe, relax, and remember to be patient.
There is no upper limit for alcohol consumption and there is no obligation to submit to a breath test so I'm not sure how it is enforced so at a practical level it isn't something the Police pursue.It is an offence to drink and cycle (1988 RTA S.30) unless something has changed.
However, it should be and I'd support aligning the law with driving a car.
That said it's pretty stupid to cycle or drive whilst under the influence regardless of any technicalities ... but if a drunk is going to use a vehicle I'd much rather they got on a bike than in a car ...
This is the sensible outlook and approach to driving and one I endeavour to follow ... but I do still ride a bike on the roads too ... I'm hoping NOT to to share your cycling experience.
"I do not understand why this appears not to be the norm.”
it’s actually about people not their mode of transport. some people are ignorant selfish idiots, thankfully not all of them.
When i see a dick move by a pedestrian or cyclist i always think ‘thank god they are not driving a car’.
"However, it should be and I'd support aligning the law with driving a car.”
I know of 3 people killed by a drunk driver and 2 with life changing injuries. It would be far better to enforce speeding/drunk driving/mobile phone use as there would be a direct benefit of less death and injuries on the road.
Can’t see drunk cycling laws being an effective road safety measure when you consider the cost and practicality of implementing them
Last edited by MrSmith; 21st June 2023 at 11:32.
Posting Permissions
