While having a browse on Chrono this afternoon I found my BLNR which was stolen 2 years ago, its for sale in Holland which is where the scammer originates from and is with a private seller.
I have spoken with Chrono who has asked for the police report which has been sent and they will pass it on to their security department and contact the police (after removing the advert), they have the sellers ID etc but my concern is he is spooked and sells the watch.
What would you do, leave it to chrono24 or try and contact the seller with a fake profile and get some further info such as address etc and pretend to be an interested party?
Its unbelievably lucky I have found it, now I dont want it to slip through the cracks again!
That is interesting, one would assume the private seller has no idea of the history. I am not the correct person to provide the advice as to how you try to get it back, but wanted to wish you luck in that process.Originally Posted by GC2012
How do you know that it is definitely yours? Assume the card is on display, same date, etc.?
The advert is not great, he has no description, no effort at all to sell the watch when he is asking 18k€.
The serial number is visible when zoomed it, the watch is 100% mine.
Reports have been sent to Chrono so let’s see what happens. My concern is there is a buyer and then it’s gone again, possibly forever.
Good detective work!
Was it insured and did you get a pay-out?
That's assuming there is actually a watch to sell? Could it be stolen images and a completely fake listing?
I don't suppose the UK police would be interested in any capacity?
This is going to be a very interesting thread to see how C24 handle a report of a stolen watch, especially with a police report.
I apologize for the bad behaviour of my fellow countryman. Hope you get it sorted.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
The advert is genuine as its verified by Chrono so he has had to pass their test before listing.
Fortunately the guy who stolen them is in-famous in holland for scamming people for anything from property to jewellery and luxury cars (were talking in to the millions here) and I helped the police in Holland a lot with their investigation. The officer I helped has contacted chrono for the info of the seller and is trying to help but Chrono are useless so far, we have to contact via their generic customer service email address, no one knows how long it will take to reply or notify the police. They dont seem to care.
Insurance didn't payout, as the seller done a fake transfer and I handed the watch over it was void.
The seller must know its fake, as soon as you google the serial number its listed on countless forums as stolen. Surely he would have checked this, his profile is from 2018 so he clearly has some interest in buying/selling watches on chrono.
Lets see what happens, if nothing then I will buy the watch through chrono using their escrow service and fly to Holland for it, do the deal and then revoke the payment after i have left.
^^^
Thought C24 had removed the advert, how will they now let it be sold.
We all have our bad Apples unfortunately!
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That's Chrono24 on 'Ze List' for me.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Good luck getting your watch back ...
Last edited by Montello; 15th May 2023 at 16:17.
I have never googled a serial number in my life, I wouldn't know who would do that if the watch is sold with the matching papers? You have no idea if the seller is the same person who defrauded you.
And how does one "revoke the payment"? And besides that, this would make you a fraudster as much as the person who took advantage of you. Rest assured, Chrono24 would go after you. Just saying.
Because they don't answer to an email within 90 minutes?
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
No, because it was a (attempt) joke
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Good luck but it seems like it's going to be difficult...If you were able to talk to C24 how come the Dutch police have to contact them by email, or did I get it wrong.
Agreed that it's a bad idea to try to steal the watch back.
Did you describe the original scam somewhere?
Maybe I am different but if I am spending 18k or so on a watch I would at least run the serial number through google and some stolen registers, by doing that anyone considering this watch would know its stolen, it would help me and save them. Just cause the papers are there doesn't mean its not stolen.
Also, regardless if its wrong or not I will do whats needed to get the watch back whether that means buying it and then figuring it out after with Chrono.
At the end of the day, my watch was stolen and now its on Chrono. Should I give the seller leeway because he could be unknowing? Personally I dont think so, if he did buy it unknowingly then he can chase the guy he bought it from.
Lets see how it plays out... I will keep you all updated.
Just to add the extra info:
The seller does not know about me or the police, the advert is live and Chrono have not removed it yet so anyone could buy it now which is why I would like something in motion ASAP.
Between me, Chrono24 (if they reply) and a police officer I know in Holland we are trying to get it back but it all depends on how Chrono react and proceed.
Believe me, defrauding someone else is not going to help you.
Great that you found the watch, now let the police do their work. The watch is yours, the unfortunate seller will have to chase the person they have bought it from for a refund. Chrono will have the name of the seller, so all will be good if you just calm down and let things fall into place.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I hope you get it back I really do.
If I was you I would remove this thread in case the thief gets wind of it.
I dont see how you can steal your own property.
Its certainly not the case in England,if you buy stolen goods (even unknowing) the goods still belong to the owner they where stolen from.
I am keeping a look out for my stolen bike,the police know who stole it and where they live they wont do anything (thats what insurance is for they said,rather than stoping the crime) they even redacted the CCTV stills so you cant even make out its a bike, I dont know whos got it.
Neither my home insurance nor Kryptonite will pay out (they just dont answer emails).
If I see it locked up somewhere I am taking it back, I cant see how that is theft.
Are you even English?
The amount of nonsense you are posting truly has no limits.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Genuine question but how would I be defrauding someone who 'could' potentially be selling my items knowing they are stolen?
Lets say I went down this route and Chrono came after me how would they have a leg to stand on when I can prove its stolen and mine?
My only concern is when this happened I left it to the police and nothing happened, the watch kept bouncing around Europe and I would catch wind of it and the police didn't react. The spanish police wont do anything at all (I have a lawyer too who basically said that is a loss lead over here), the dutch officer is helping me out of kindness for helping him but he is in the major crime unit and really not his line of work plus its on top of his workload. Chrono will apparently contact the police if they see fit but how long could that take?
If the watch is sold this week then its very very unlikely I will see it again.
Fingers crossed it goes to plan but I genuinely dont have much trust in the police from past experience with this.
I agree with you, I once did the same with a push bike.
It was stolen from my conservatory and advertised a little later in Loot (remember Loot?). It was local so I went to see it with a few mates in the car. Once I confirmed it was mine, I got it out of his house for a test ride, told him it was mine and I was taking it back, put it in the boot of my car and drove off.
He changed his story from it belonging to his grandad to buying it off a mate but didn’t argue. My mates had stayed out of sight in the car so I hadn’t intimidated him. He could have called the police but didn’t as he probably knew it was a stolen bike.
That was about twenty years ago, I still have the bike in the garage.
If you buy the watch via Chrono24, you have a payment obligation to Chrono24. Try to pull a fast one on them at your own risk, it has nothing to do with the fact that the watch is yours.
If you want to have the watch, let the police do their job. Anything else is trouble on yourself for no benefit.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Taking the bike from the person who stole it from you is one thing, but taking a watch from a third party who thinks they are in lawful possession is criminal.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
You are right you cannot 'steal' your own property. You most take care though not to commit a different criminal offence in recovering your property (breaking and entering etc).
The person in possession of these goods can not have acquired good title to them (save having purchased them at an approved police auction). Indeed he is currently handling stolen goods, which is an offence and it would be up to him to prove his innocence (no presumption) by showing that he did not and has not subsequently, acted dishonestly in acquiring and keeping them...........................
"If the goods came into a defendant’s possession, and they were not aware that the goods were stolen, an argument for honesty may be presented. Or if a person receives stolen goods intending to return them to the owner, or law enforcement, they would not be charged with handling stolen goods as the offence was not committed dishonestly.
Deciding whether a defendant acted dishonestly can be a difficult case for the court and during trials courts often take into account the facts a defendant knew at the time of the offence and whether the behaviour appropriated compares by the standards of “ordinary people”.
Mitch
He is not in 'lawful' possession. He cannot have acquired good title to them. If the goods are removed from his possession by a police officer, shop, manufacturer on service etc, with the clear intent to return the goods to their rightful owner then no offence will be committed, no matter how deeply he feels he is the current rightful owner.
Buy a stolen car unwittingly and try protesting when someone comes to take it away, see how far you get!
Mitch
The person who holds your watch is probably not the original thief. If he releases the watch against your escrow and you then rescind it, you will have done to someone else exactly what the thief did to you.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
The ad has now been removed from Chrono by them so at least they are looking in to this now, however talking to the customer service they said await an email and their legal team will be in touch in a day or two with an update and what info is needed next.
Considering its quite a time sensitive issue you would think they would be more active, I am quite sure the guy knows what he's selling as he made no effort with the advert at all but regardless he might now be spooked and sell the watch on the black market or just go underground. Maybe he's unknowing, but on the other side this guy could be flipping stolen goods and one spook like this could see the watch gone.
I feel the whole Chrono24 site is inferior to what they advertise, looking at this watch it has all the pass marks such as proof of ownership, genuine seller, escrow etc when in fact its stolen. When listing an item you dont even need to put in the serial number, this should be mandatory and considering what they charge they could run these numbers them selves to cut down on stolen goods being listed.
Lets wait and see. I will update you all.
Fair enough, they can then go back to the seller who they bought it from and start legal proceedings like I have been doing for 3 years.
Just cause a seller might not know does not them in any way shape or form a free pass.
Its my watch which I worked and saved for, I lost out. If it comes back to me and they lose out then its a lesson they will learn like I did too and they can try to reclaim the money. At the end of the day someone is going to lose out in this whole cycle one way or another and its been me for 3 years.
Yes, but he wants to do it himself by pretending to buy the watch and then defaulting on the payment.
That is not the same
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
When looking at Chrono24 BLNR ads I noticed quite a lot (Dutch) private sellers with no description at all.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
They will have to do that anyway; the watch is yours but can only be returned to you by a lawful procedure. You would probably end up with your watch back (ultimately) but would have to sell it to pay for your lawyers' fees, and would have a record.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
Perhaps a lawyer will explain it better, but can the watch be considered "stolen" in this situation? To me it sounds like breach of trust. You've handed over the item to a third party willingly. I fear you might have a case to chase the person that scammed you, but recovering the item will be more difficult because it was not forcefully taken out of your ownership?
I might be wrong though.
Really hopeful you get it back. Inserting serial numbers on c24 sales and automatic check with all relevant authorities is a great idea.
It's clearly fraud, but whether you have title to the watch is doubtful. You may have a monetary claim against the seller only, as you agreed to sell and the seller defaulted on the payment.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
It’s possible they’re not the original thief but I’m not sure it’s probable. Most adverts on C24 aren’t from individuals which says something. Either they don’t want to go to a dealer as they stole it, or they’ve been to a dealer and realise it’s been stolen.
You have my sympathy but I really don’t think you’re getting your watch back. Best case C24 engage, the Police then decide to investigate. Possibly they’re drop in at the house to speak to person. More than likely they’ll be no answer, if there is they deny everything. Watch will be dumped or stashed everywhere. They’ll be able to come up with some alibi and the police won’t have the appetite to push it. I hope I’m wrong though!!!
What actually happened initially, did you actually meet with the thief?
What's the situation if a future buyer sends the watch to Rolex for a service? If the serial number is on their stolen register, will they confiscate it and return it to the OP?
"A man of little significance"
Goods obtained by deception are stolen goods and title remains with the person deceived into parting with them .......
"Under s24 of the Act 1968, stolen goods are any goods acquired through theft, deception, or blackmail"
Mitch
They should hold the goods and notify the Police they are holding the goods awaiting collection or further instruction from them.
Ask Paul Thorpe, he had a Pepsi stolen which turned up in Italy. It went in for a service, which is how it was discovered. Rolex retained it but, despite the Italian & British police confirming his ownership, Rolex won't return it to him.
He used to talk about it a lot...
That's good to know, thanks for clarifying.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Hands up who believes a single word that PT utters.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
I don't think Rolex maintain a stolen register any more.
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/just-...eneral-thorpe/
The thought that you might be English turns my stomach hence why I asked some time ago.
I know what you did by the way which is why I left here 2 years ago and have only just returned.
It was reported to the police but the same as my stolen bike nonsense as you call it, they dont do anything.
No I dont mean the fruity emails you sent to the MD of the watch strap company when you where unhappy with your watch strap.
I mean the theft and (mis) handling of my personel information by you,which led to all sorts of problems with my bank and more.
I always avoid you but you always start trouble its how you get your power here, divide and conquer.
You would have us believe your holier than the Pope, you arent.
Wut?
Please elaborate, I am all ears.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
This is not the place!
Whatever your issues with Raffe, think of Eddie.
Got a new watch, divers watch it is, had to drown the bastard to get it!
Yep, here we go again........
When you look long into an abyss, the abyss looks long into you.........
Serious question
In a perfect world
What would you like/expect chrono24 to do in this situation?
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Cooperate with the police?
I suppose they will have a protocol for this, and I would expect they do what is required.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Chrono owns xupes as well and I know they have a good telephone team so perhaps could also try going through them
Good luck
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