Reply With QuoteI always thought it was a Rolex that was first to the summit??
dons_tin_hat
I haven't posted since dinosaurs walked the land but thought this was worth sharing. Apologies if it is common knowledge. I only just discovered it. I did a search to see if it had been posted but couldn't see anything. Well worth a read if you haven't seen it.
https://www.outdoorjournal.com/featu...versy-to-rest/
I always thought it was a Rolex that was first to the summit??
dons_tin_hat
Last edited by demonloop; 16th February 2023 at 08:04.
The original research was done by Matt and discussed here.
Edit : I think Matt wrote that article too.
Smiths were the only watches worn on the summit of Everest in '53. The proof.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app
Last edited by Dave+63; 16th February 2023 at 09:25.
Getting on for 80,000 views:
https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.p...n-53-The-proof
This letter from Sir Edmund Hillary in The Horological Journal, November 1953 is quite good fun:
As Mr R. A. Winter [Rolex] is not quite sure if Sir Edmund Hillary received his Rolex, and if Mr E. Carey demands to know the true facts about the Everest watches, the obvious solution seem to be to ask Sir Edmund himself, and I did so last weekend. He assures me that he wore one watch only, his Smiths, during the last stages of the climb but, at the same time, he spoke very highly of the Rolex, and the fact that it remained behind in the comparative safety of the Base Camp was no reflection on the watch, but simply a common-sense precaution to keep one in reserve, and to avoid any possible chance of getting both smashed at the same time. The precaution was against accidental damage, and there seems to have been no fear that any of the watches would fail. As this confidence was fully justified, both makers are to be congratulated.
Tensing carried a single watch, his own, of unrecorded make, but he did not do any of the timekeeping, or calculations for consumption of oxygen — called by the Sherpas "English Air”.
The pictures used by Messrs. Smiths in the September advertisement is of Messrs. Bourdillon and Evans, exhausted on their return from the South Summit, but I feel sure, from a chance remark, the encircled watch is also a Smiths.
Sir Edmund is taking back a London watch, made by Jno. Fladgate, in 1766, but it is most unlikely that he will take it on his next expedition; much as I admire the verge escapement, I felt obliged to warn him against using it to time his oxygen consumption, as I have a sneaking feeling that it might not be completely accurate at -40 deg. C. !
I hope that this is the information required, and that everyone will feel perfectly satisfied but, if any makers of very expensive watches would like to start a new controversy, by having their products carried to the top of Inkpen Beacon (c. 902 ft.), they have only to send them to yours very truly,
E. HILLARY
“The Old Cottage”
Newtown
Newbury
I don't think it was a question of redundancy at all. I didn't say much about it at the time, but it looked a lot like it was a case of pecking order and dividing the spoils. Hunt was in a slightly odd position. He'd been drafted in quite late in the day and had replaced the immensely popular, effective and able Shipman. Who, of course habitually wore a Rolex, but one of the very early Oysters, an unsolicited gift from Rolex in 1933:Originally Posted by learningtofly
The square version of this one:
By the time they reached Base Camp, Hunt had cemented his position as leader, but only by largely allowing the original core of climbers a degree of latitude and democracy he'd probably have preferred to avoid. It's reasonable to assume that the division of watches was not that of issuing in the normal way and closer to old fashioned 'dibs'.
Thus there was a core of 'old lags' who all ended up with one of each and one who ended up with three - one on each wrist and one on his belt. Hunt also got both and wore both on the approach but only wore one once past the Khumbu glacier. This is based upon photographs like the one of Wylie in the thread.
Those who committed the cardinal sin of not being English: Lowe, Hillary, Annullu and Norgay only received one watch. This had little to do with necessity as Norgay was only contracted to climb to a lower altitude due to a serious back injury the previous season and Lowe was not going to make the attempt as he was a mediocre technical rock climber due to a childhood arm injury. He was however a superb ice climber and certainly paid his way. Lowe and Annullu appear to have got Rolex while Norgay and Hillary got the Smiths. I have a file full of photographs and notes somewhere and probably could reconstruct exactly where everything went, but I worked out what I needed and it's a bit of a mission.
As for Hillary's letter. There is no evidence of him wearing a Rolex at any point on the expedition and there is no evidence at all that he ever owned a 6098 of the sort owned uniformly by the members of the expedition who did get a Rolex. The Rolex in the Swiss jewellers is the wrong watch to have been worn on Everest in any number of ways.
My opinion on what Norgay wore is given above while there is photographic evidence that the watch worn in the failed attempt was a Rolex.
As such, while the letter confirms my thesis, I didn't think it was as good a bit of evidence as it initially appears.
Last edited by M4tt; 16th February 2023 at 12:23.
Except:
1.) "He assures me that he wore one watch only, his Smiths, during the last stages of the climb but, at the same time, he spoke very highly of the Rolex, and the fact that it remained behind in the comparative safety of the Base Camp was no reflection on the watch, but simply a common-sense precaution to keep one in reserve, and to avoid any possible chance of getting both smashed at the same time."
Seems to imply that Hillary has two watches but left the Rolex at base Camp.
2.) Hillary says "Tensing carried a single watch, his own, of unrecorded make"
Both Smiths and Rolex each supplied 13 watches to the Expedition, one for each member. Several photos show various members wearing two watches, one on each wrist.
True.
He also described this specific watch as 'My most treasured possession' in Rolex advertising. As such, you'd expect there to be pictures of him wearing it, for it to be one of the watches his heirs squabbled over, or for it to have resurfaced at some point or another, not least in Rolex advertising. All of the other watches he used have. As such, you can describe me as sceptical. The factual inaccuracy about the watch Bourdillon wore is the last straw. All this left me sceptical enough to discount the source in building my case as it left me wide open to perfectly valid objections that could have tarnished other aspects of my argument.
Last edited by M4tt; 16th February 2023 at 13:03.
Just this very morning, Hamilton & Inches sent me some Rolex news on Explorers. Here's the very latest wording that they're using:
"From the 1930s, Rolex began to equip numerous expeditions with Oyster Perpetual watches. The feedback received was used to develop what became known as the Professional category: watches that serve as tools, such as the Explorer and Explorer II. Rolex watches have taken part in some of humanity’s greatest adventures. One such occasion was the 1953 expedition to Everest, led by Sir John Hunt, on which Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay become the first to summit the world’s highest mountain."
I'd love to see the feedback they received, as there's sod all evidence of it in the RGS files. There is evidence that they gave three watches to the RGS expedition in 1933 and that Eric Shipton used one of them from that point onwards. Quite what feedback they gave and how it changed anything is unclear.
Smoke, lies, mirrors and spindrift off the north face.... such is Rolex's marketing.
As it stands that’s perfectly true. But it’s very, very carefully worded.
I really should ask Matt to update the article and name-check me properly (or at least consistently). It's my fault - I have too many online personas.
I thought that Tenzing received a rolex on the failed Swiss attempt, is that incorrect?
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A gold datejust iirc. But in all the colour photos of the '53 Hunt Expedition he's only ever pictured wearing a silver / chrome / stainless steel coloured watch on (iirc) a Bonklip or similar bracelet.
Such as this one:
Indeedy. :)
David
Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations
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