Reply With QuoteIt's either as you suspect, or he is going to send back the watch that he had prior to buying yours as yours is better.
That is quite a common scam.
Ok, so I sold a Seiko Watch Prospex 1968 Reinterpretation SPB187J1 on ebay.
(I hadn’t worn it or re-sized the bracelet, but did handle it a few times to see if I could bond with it or not and was bough fror £661 in June from TH Baker?)
The Ebay auction was 195373849929 and sold buy now for £565 by ebay user johngbrennan
i then get a message from the buyer saying
“I’ve just opened the box and had a look at the watch to resize it and noticed that it's been worn as there are wear marks and small hairline scratches in the strap and the side of the case.
You marked it as Brand New without tags.... this has obviously been worn which would not make it new.
Bit disappointed to be honest, but thought I'd message you first before leaving a review”
I replied back that I haven’t worn it, but he could return the watch for a full refund to which he quickly instigated an Ebay return.
ok fair enough BUT he had to send me photos of the issues he raised, but just sent me a photo of the watch along with its box etc.
I then noticed that he is selling the exact same model of Watch for originally £899, but now reduced to £799 (Ebay auction 334601090171).
The photo he sent me in reference to the return, which was supposed to show these so called marks, was a picture of the watch in front of the box ie, it was one of the photos from his auction?
He has until the 7th Nov to return my watch, but given he sells watches, I can’t help but think he is trying to sell my watch to make a profit and if he doesn’t sell it, he can simply return it? And so is simply hedging his bets.
Kind members of TWF have asked questions to the seller )my buyer) about the watch and confirmed it is my watch by asking about the warranty, and said the following"
"It has been worn maybe twice. The first time when I got it and the security and time when deciding whether to sell it (it has never left the house).
I did resize the bracelet, however reattached all the links and there no marks I can see on it.It looks brand new, however it isn’t, which is why I’m selling it used"
He is describing the watch as "Mint Condition" and "stunning piece is in Brand New Condition"
Yet he has instigated an ebay return on the basis the watch is not new and has marks and scratches on it.
I have filed a complaint, as recommended in Ebay Seller Community on the basis of Feedback Extortion ie where he said he was contacting me to see what I had to say before leaving a review.
I have also told ebay how can the buyer instigate a return on the basis the watch is used and has scatches, yet is selling it on as mint and in as new condition??
This doesn’t sit well for me, what do you guys think??
Wishing you all well
John
It's either as you suspect, or he is going to send back the watch that he had prior to buying yours as yours is better.
That is quite a common scam.
This is what jumped in to my mind unfortunatelyOriginally Posted by blackal
Do you have pictures of the original serial number?
If you get a different watch back it’s the easiest way to confirm / prove he is a con man.
It is, I had this done to me quite a few years ago with a camera, even though I had the serial, and he sent the same model, but a none working camera back with a different serial, ebay paid him back, very rarely touch the site now, it will never change.
Ebay is chock-full of dirty b**tards trying their luck. I sold a watch on there years ago, a Sea Gull 1963. It was in good nick, had been worn a few times but wasn't marked. The buyer tried to force a partial refund, something like 40 quid, by saying the dial was chipped. I refused, asked him to send it back for a full refund. Never heard from him again.
Yes on my original auction I posted a photo of the warranty card including the serial number
I think the buyer was angling for a partial refund, but I didn’t give him the option.
Someone did suggest, buying the Watch in a few days and the not paying for it, in the hope the buyer/ seller cancels the return or exceeds the 7th Nov deadline. But if he started a 7 day auction on the 21st Oct ( I assume that’s when he listed the Watch) the listing will end on 28thOct and still plenty of time to return it.
I will message this guy in a couple of days and ask for an explanation for his actions. Hopefully, search engines of his user name will lead to these threads and hopefully his watch sales might be a bit harder in future if watch forum members are aware of his chinanogans???
Yep.
Worst case, like others have said, he’s switched them and you get a different watch back. Suspect he has more than likely caused the scratches when he has resized the bracelet, and his disappointment is with himself. Chanced his arm with his ambiguous approach to you hoping you would perhaps extend a goodwill refund to keep the watch, but his bluff has been called with the offer to simply return. Guess he’s leaving the listing live to see what he can get knowing he can mitigate his exposure by simply sending it back now that the return has been opened.
Either way, you are not getting the watch you sent back. Assuming everything matches, the protective tape has been removed from the bracelet and he has openly admitted to sizing it and wearing it. The fact it is in the house is irrelevant for me but then again I operate with a different set of standards. Unfortunately these chancers on EBay don’t have any morals.
Good point, but not if the potential scammer has the ability to change casebacks without scratching them.
Buy on ebay perhaps but never sell these days, life is too short for the stress it can give.
What an absolute donkey, this happened to me where I had sold a Lalique vase and buyer replied with damaged on delivery,as packaging was insufficient for protection. When I challenged the buyer for photos of the packaging, it was plainly obvious that she’’d used a different wrapper so using photos I had taken before eBay I upheld my claim, but it was an ongoing process that lasted for over a month.
Extremely frustrating I do sympathise
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I think....you should stop using eBay, in totality, because unless you live in a cave, you'll be quite aware of the shenanigans that ensue when selling stuff on there.
You are most probably right and I usually sell my high end watches to my local watch dealer or try Watchfinder.
The Authentication scheme "should" make life a bit easier for the seller, in that they check the watch is genuine and I think, they check the condition against the auction listing.
But as shown on another thread, the Authentication centre can damage your watch. So lots of detailed photos are needed?
There is no perfect place to sell stuff, eBay has it's pros and cons, but on the whole I find it a reasonable place.
The weirdest one I had through eBay was when I sold a Nikon camera for £30 (just one of those holiday waterproof cameras that I replaced with a GoPro). TWO YEARS after the sale, I got a message from the buyer saying it wasn't working and I quote; "Sounds Dodgy at sale". Tried to give some helpful suggestions around battery replacements, but all I got back was claims it was broken for 2 years... Some folk have no class at all.
The most annoying thing is the feedback system on eBay is hopeless. It seems the more negative feedback is merited, the harder the system makes it to leave any. The chap trying to return an old camera 2 years after buying it for 30 quid? 900+ feedback 100% positive.. go figure.
Actually that's the second most annoying thing. The most annoying is keyword spammers who put popular keywords that are not related to their item to drive traffic to their items, en-masse, ruining the search functionality for entire categories, and yet eBay simply refuses to take any action even if you report dozens of the listings for this exact offense (believe me I've tried)
Back on topic after my rant...!
OP maybe gather your evidence with screenshots and fire a message to the buyer highlighting that you have evidence the watch was received as described, was used/sized by the buyer, and evidence of the attempt to sell at a higher price during the return window. On that basis, you're rejecting any return and will take necessary action with eBay and report for fraud to the buyers local police force (name them, you have the address) if the matter proceeds... Blah blah, regardless of whether you do it or not, rattle them a bit and see if they back down (politely and without any threats, else you become the bad guy). That's what I'd try anyway.
Well so far I have raised a comp,ain’t against the buyer for feedback extortion etc.
I’ll give it another day and then ask him when he is intending to send it back. Next I will query why he is selling my watch as new etc but requesting a return on the basis it’s got scratches and marks. I have a screen shot of a reply to a TWF member which I will throw back at him and also a reply he gave to another member asking for a photo of the warranty card
“i do have the warranty card, however I tend not to post pictures of them as unscrupulous people use them to sell items illegitimately What is it you wanted to know? The watch was purchased from TH Baker in June this year and was manufactured in 2020 judging by the serial number. It has the balance of manufactures warranty obviously and is a stunning piece”
Yeah so stunning in fact he wants a return !!!
Last edited by odyseus10; 24th October 2022 at 20:57.
Sorry to hear all of this, but thanks to share to prevent to all of us to happen that things.
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What surprises me is the front of these scammers and their lack of concern that they won’t one day scam someone of an unsavoury character who knows their address and decides to pay them a visit.
I know one such guy who drove 150 miles, each way, to recover his goods from someone who didn’t pay. I suspect by the time he arrived he was raging and I’m certain I wouldn’t have wanted him banging on my front door.
How about everyone who buys and sells on eBay entering… johngbrennan into “block buyer” on your eBay account.
I have just done it.
Might just help.
Many thanks for all your kind words of support and suggestions :)
So early this morning, I decided to contacted the Buyer and simply asked if he had sent that watch back yet.
This morning, I looked at my emails to find the “return” was now closed and my funds released.
Nothing from Ebay or the Buyer to say why. I guess he realised that he had benn rumbled?
That said, he could still leave bad feedback, which is why I reported him to Ebay a couple of days ago.
Result!
Sounds like he was chancing the partial refund. Even if you had offered a trivial value, it’s worth a shot in the eyes of the chancers.
Indeed ! No explanation as to why he cancelled the return? I’m not going to poke the bear and ask why but I do have the Ebay complaint logged :)Result!
He was selling the watch for more than he paid, and keeping the refund avenue open so that if it didn't sell he could return it. Scummy move, but not unheard of on eBay.
I guess in this case he decided he didn't want his account under scrutiny, leaving him free to try the scam with others who may just offer up a partial refund without a fight.
Interestingly, he has updated the description several times now? Twice early yesterday a few hours after I asked him whether he had sent the watch back and at the same time he cancelled the return. The latest one removes the New condition description and replaced with “ This stunning piece is in mint
Condition with no marks that I can see!”
Hardly a bargain at £799 though and there are cheaper ones available on eBay. Makes my price of £560 ish and absolute bargain :)
Dodgy little chancer. Well done on digging & noticing it.
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Glad you got the result John
Now… what can we do to scupper his “sale”
Have been messed about on eBay as well. Leaves you feeling very vengeful, which is not really a healthy state of mind. Still, one option is to buy and return repeatedly. If enough people do this the seller will surely tire of having to pay the return costs. Needs a lot of like minded people with enough funds and time to do it. Now where would you find such a group of people?!
I’m absolutely sick to death of scammers and chancers on eBay and have been the victim of this on several occasions over the years.
Recently had a return on day 29 (according to eBay the buyer has 30 days to raise a claim although I’ve also been told that they can return an item within 180 days !!)
The buyer cited his reason as the watch stopped at 7.30am every morning and was therefore faulty. It had obviously been through the authenticators and since it was returned to me I have worn it for almost 2 weeks and it has performed faultlessly. I can only assume he got bored with it and decided to get a refund !!
EBay didn’t even give me a chance to dispute, instead they just pulled the money straight out of my account !!!
Regarding your situation it sounds to me like the guy is 100% trying to have one over on you !!
Good grief, for high value items after a month that's very dangerous and careless of eBay.
If only I had another eBay account that didn’t lead back to me, as I would buy it then just pay for it :)
I recently learned to avoid selling watches (and probably anything else with a high value) on eBay. I bought a nice Glycine Bienne and wore it for a few months. Decided I fancied a change and so listed it on eBay and got a best offer sale. Sent it along and all was fine. After a week or so I got a notice of a refund request, buyer claiming it was losing 45 seconds a day, then said it was fast, so basically claiming it was defective. Obviously it was not, in fact it was very much like new, exactly as described and keeping time well within spec. Naturally eBay back the buyer completely so I was forced to accept the return for what is essentially a buyer trying out my watch for a week and then changing his mind. Cheeky twat.
To be honest, I consider myself lucky as he could have had it for 30 days and done the same and some are saying they can stiff you after 180 days. Knowing that you would have to be daft to risk eBay now. A shame as I have bought and sold various things over the years and most buyers and sellers have been perfectly reasonable and, as with so much in life, one twat can ruin it! As luck would have it, I am quite enjoying having the watch back and wearing it now :-)
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