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Nothing to lose in asking for the clarification on the discrepancy on advert v offer.
if they dick you now - it doesn’t bode well for the longer term.
Been there. Done that.
I left as soon as I could.
z
Evening all, I have just been offered a exciting new career opportunity and I'm in a bit of a dilemma with it, basically I work away in a industry I no longer really believe in, I no longer enjoy coming to work and plus the fact I'm 47 years old and I know (it shouldn't but it does) that agesim will start to go against me with future opportunities.
The new opportunity lets me work 37 hours a week, be in my home every night, will see more of my daughter and its only 15 miles away for commuting plus a lot of good benefits, and I've basically been told I will be taking over from the guy above me in a year once he has trained me up and he retires.
The only thing is when I applied for the role, it showed the wage on offer and it was a range with a £5K span, however the offer today is £1800 less than the bottom value I saw on the advert when I applied, I don't have the original advert and pay scale and on speaking to my partner she said 'you definitely said it was more than that' on the original advert. Its a big pay cut for me to take, the money is not everything, its more the opportunity to leave my current industry behind but should I go back and enquire about more money as I did have a value in my head I wanted and the initial offer is a few £k less than I was wanting.
Can you go back and ask for more, its being a while since I was in this position.
Last edited by Martylaa; 20th October 2022 at 21:08.
Nothing to lose in asking for the clarification on the discrepancy on advert v offer.
if they dick you now - it doesn’t bode well for the longer term.
Been there. Done that.
I left as soon as I could.
z
If they can offer you less, you can ask for more!
But even if they didn't offer you less, you can still ask for more; it's just part of the process.
Agreed. If you think you are worth more have confidence in your value to your potential new employer and ask for what you expected.
A compromise position maybe an automatic increase to the higher figure once you have completed your probation.
They've offered you a job, they want you. Decent staff are like hens teeth so they shouldn't worry about a few k.
100% ask. I always do, and have given advice to family members to bargain. You have all the leverage once they select you as a preferred candidate. They've been through a process committing Lord knows how many hours for job ads, CV reviews, interviews, presentations, etc, and they want you. So, worth pushing to see if they will pay an extra few thousand a year, which is likely to mean a lot more to you than them, and will have you begin extra motivated and eager to succeed!
If at first you don't succeed, offer an alternative - a good compromise is having written into your offer a pay increase after a fixed period such as 6 months, they may not want to go top end of payscale for someone new/unproven which is partly understandable. If they could give you an increase in current offer now, with committment to raise that in 6 months to top end of banding, that may sit better for all parties.
Final thing - be wary of promises for future roles, especially when paired with a low-ball offer. That is a red flag potentially, I'd look first to secure the current role at a rate you'll be happy with and then any further progression and pay increase is a bonus! Wishing you best of luck, I hope it works out for you!
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Thanks for the advice, I wish I had taken a print out of the original advert I really do, I also really believe the part about progression as on both interviews they made a point out of saying its job progression to the role above.
Its nice to be wanted, especially when I was told they had over 100 applicants for the initial role, the lure of not working away anymore and the fact its a job with a new challenge and progression was the main driver for me applying.
As said it’s worth speaking to them.
My current role was advertised as x and after accepting was told it was y a quick chat and HR confirmed it was regional pay differences so the wrong band was advertised but they paid me the advertised pay band.
Where was the advert posted? If it’s internet you may be able to find it archived. It would help your position if you knew for certain you were on solid ground.
That, of course, irrespective of the normal negotiations to determine your salary package. Sell yourself too cheaply and you compromise your credibility.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I spent 20 years in recruitment and recruited for ftse500 organisations and small independents and in my experience it’s common place for business to over egg jobs in adverts to attract the best candidates.Originally Posted by bloater
I’ve had countless roles where Businesses have paid more than advertised (as mentioned the true cost of hiring is extortionate and once you have your lead candidate do you really want to start the process again - cost of advert, filtering cvs, time to arrange interviews, candidates with drawing, counter offers etc etc, etc)
I’ve also seen roles offered below the original banding (lots of companies would rather give someone an opportunity to grow into a role than throw money at someone already at that level who may well get bored or be poached as an example
So there is no hard and fast rule - I’ve always told employers to make the best offer you can and what you think the individual is worth while educating them on the market place (good candidates are always sought after and it’s a competitive space)
For all that being said you are more than entitled to negotiate don’t shy away from it - state your case as to why you are worth more and what you can bring to the organisation more than saying ten advert said X
Google is your friend - there is loads of info out there about how to negotiate salary without being awkward or holding a gun to anyones head it’s about negotiation
For me and many now money isn’t the driving factor - work life balance, flexible working, core benefits, future opportunities etc are all very much major factors for business now more than the salary band and given what you have mentioned you don’t see in your current role and an industry you don’t want to be in so I think I know where you want to be
So it’s just a case of negotiating a deal that works which I’m hopeful you can do - think of what you would like and what you would accept maybe look to agree something if you pass probation you get a rise to as an example
Good luck either way
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I think you may well as explore this issue in the whole as a career with this company, who may well say that there will be a significant cost in upskilling you in this new job. Absolutely query the discrepancy, they have chosen you so they don’t want to lose you but to avoid disappointment broaden the discussion to clarify the salary range after twelve months when you are promoted (you dont want them offering you a £6800.00 pay rise which merely puts you on the max of the scale for your starting position and not the scale your new boss would be enjoying now?).
Is it worth asking to chat to your due to retire line manager - it might give you a better feel as to how well you would fit with the company but also, as rob says it would give you a clearer idea as to what you would bring, be that continuity or fresh ideas with added value to the role. You could reason that you want to be absolutely certain you are a good fit and want this move to be your last until you retire which the new company should appreciate.
So chat with new boss first, then you will have more confidence to explore starting and future salary. But whatever happens, would you be happy to settle for the advertised role if anything changes within the next 12 months?
Last edited by Suds; 20th October 2022 at 22:44.
You'll never be in a stronger position to negotiate than you are right now.
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..... Huh???
My wife was offered a job and negotiated 1k higher than the offer. Once they have offered they want you, it’s now a matter of how much they are willing to pay. Be bold and see what they say.
I would ask for the figure you want and take it from there. In you mind have the arguments ready to justify, I am worth X because of A, B and C.
Good luck.
It’s far easier to negotiate a higher salary before joining than once you’re already in the job.
If they’re offering below the advertised rates that would ring alarm bells and I’d definitely raise it. At this point it’s very much you in the driving seat as they’ve made their choice
Could have been a genuine mistake or oversight.
Good staff are hard to find at the moment and it’s likely they’ve already got approval for the higher amount.
Definitely ask for more and be firm, unfortunately doing the dance with salary negotiation always seems to be part of the recruitment process.
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It would certainly raise alarm bells with me, it's one thing for them to offer lower than advertised but then voluntarily explain there was an error in the rates originally advertised, it's another thing entirely offering lower and not explaining just hoping you'll accept. Tell them you were hoping to be remunerated at the upper end of the advertised scale and as such were very surprised to see their offer was actually lower than advertised. The worst case scenario is you turn the job down, but you could always start on the rate they're offering if their explanation sounds reasonable and the change of lifestyle is really what you want to do. Best case is they offer you more but what I do know is you only have this one opportunity to sort it out and if you don't ask you certainly won't get!
Also it might be that the hiring manager has handed this over to HR to finalise and that’s where the oversight has occurred.
Right now we have record employment and wages are increasing. Employees have the power.
Never accept a job without some salary negotiation in any market, but especially in this climate.
"Thankyou for the offer, I am keen to come and work for you. But I was looking for something around the £255K mark and I belive this job was advertised at £250 to £255K per year, with a car(& driver), BUPA, 48 days holiday, free canteen, a mahoosive pension & unlimited access to the executive rooftop swimming pool. Are you able to increase your offer? I would really love to be able to say 'yes' to this opportunity."
If this is an 18K job offer, you probably won't squeeze them for the additional cash. If it's 50K ish or over and they think you are the right guy to hire they'd be daft to quibble.
I agree that it's far easier to negotiate your wage up now, than it would be to try to get a payrise later.
Thanks gents, I’m struggling to find the adverts, I could have sworn there 2 adverts and one said more than the other, either way on their advert they have offered slightly less than minimum and tbh I want more so I’ll get back to them after the weekend and enquire about the rate.
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This.
I had similar once where I applied based on a range and was successful but offered the bottom of the range. I explained to the recruiter that I wasn't happy with the offer and he asked me to email him saying I'm over the moon with being offered the job but would struggle to meet my current financial obligations on that salary and asked them to reconsider their offer otherwise I'm forced to politely decline.
Think I got 60% through the range after and no hard feelings.
In times like these they are expecting you to counter.
Congrats on the offer and on balance it feels a good move given improved work life balance that you mention.
Did you go direct or through a recruiter? Assuming direct, as usually recruiters can handle these situations for you.
Even if direct, as others have said you have every right to negotiate. You don't want to be seen as a walkover from day one... I would negotiate no matter what, even if it was at the top of the range, but maybe that is just me!
It was through the company website I applied.
I’m still trying to find that other advert but I’m struggling.
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Forget about the advert, if they have selected you from 100 applicants they want you in the role, im not sure how 1,800 equates as a percentage of the overall, but regardless you can say i am interested in the job and the company but that offer doesnt meet my minimum salary expectations, people do it all the time and as someone said you are never in a better position to negotiate that before you take the job,
Good luck!
In that case don't waste your time as it's trivial anyway: You know what you would like and you know what you're prepared to accept.
Use the email suggested above if you're more comfortable than face to face but it any case make your point the same way. You have financial commitments that are met with your current position and you would struggle to meet them at a lower level.
Don't forget to negotiate for the future as well (i.e. what will the salary be at the end of the first 3/6 months? What will the promotion starting salary? what is the company policy on salary evolution?)
Remember that money is not a dirty word. It's the main reason why we work, and it should be one of the factors in any career move decision, including the ones you will make later if you were to decide to go for this job.
When I was hiring people for the jobs we had I took a lot of information from the way they brought the subject and how they negotiated, especially for fairly senior positions.
'Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain' - Schiller.
I've not a lot to add to the mostly sage advice given before but... I'd always be cautious of the promise / guarantee of becoming a natural successor to the present incumbent after a matter of time greater than 6 months.
Too much carrot dangling there to be comfortable in my opinion.
As has been said, the ball is very much in your court here. You have been through a process, they want you & it is now about getting to the mutually agreeable salary - they have a 'target' as do you.
As per the above poster, be wary of the promised role into your bosses one, could be awkward if not delivered, or a restructuring meaning it doesn't exist in the future.
I have negotiated after salary for sign on bonus / sign on in lieu of lost bonus. One sign on they didn't say they were talking net vs gross, so kept pushing...that was a happy start day lol. The other time when moving companies, HR confirmed I am entitled to 25% bonus, new company paid it to get me early. Old company had a total shocker of a year end and only paid at 5%. Was a lucky 4 years there.
Above is basically to say all in your interest, if you are missing a bonus or potential bonus while leaving, then mention it. They want & need you, this is your perfect chance to commercialise your worth to them & secure the next few years in income. Best of luck Sir!
Thanks guys, I have to take them both at their worth I guess on the promotion, both constantly talked about the role and moving up and the head guy basically told me to my face it will definitely happen as the guy sat next to him wants to retire once he has his man in place to take over from him.
I’m currently at work away and going to try and find that other advert then go back and ask for more.
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Ohh I see what you mean, yes I agree.
I thought you meant in the broader context of like macro environment right now... Which had me a bit puzzled!
Wife works big corporate and I hear they are pulling offers left and right and hunkering down.
Best of luck to OP.
regardless of finding the advert ask for what you are happy to take the job at one way or the other,
good luck
Firstly congrats! Great to secure a role you really want especially in the current climate!
As regards salary, just say that based on the advert you understood the role was in the range x - y and you were hoping to be toward the top end of that given your experience, so can they please up it bit to your target number.
It's not a big deal, just be polite about it.
If it's a firm no then you have a decision to make, but in all honesty, as others have said, recruiting is difficult, the right candidates are few and far between, so every chance they will meet your demands (assuming reasonable).
Be brave and best of luck.
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Last edited by xxnick1975; 21st October 2022 at 16:54.
They've offered you the job so you're their best candidate.
Ask away, don't be excessive but rarely will a few £k be a breaking point at this stage.
They can also say no if it's too far, leaves you with the decision.
I get involved in recruitment for one of my clients; it's the hardest part of running a business and extremely time consuming.
Once you have identified the right candidate you would never risk losing them for a few grand unless it is an organisation with strict pay scales.
If this isn't public sector I'd just ask for what you think you are worth ... be diplomatic about it ... also shows them you know how to negotiate.
In the current labour market I would expect the candidates to push ...
Good luck and well done with the interview process.
As others have said…
I’ve interviewed and appointed hundreds of staff over the years. I’ve never let a good one slip away for the sake of a couple of grand provided they aren’t a dick about it.
So clever my foot fell off.
Really appreciate all the comments gents, I’ll have to wait until Monday to speak to the HR girl as she was off today so fingers crossed.
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Do you speak with HR or go to the manager who interviewed you?
Depending on protocol I’d prefer to speak with the manager as they will value you more than HR. Different objectives and needs
As a recruiting manager, on occasion, myself I have dealt with pay negotiations before. It’s generally up to the manager to either instruct HR, or make the case to them, depending on the size and setup of the company.
Even with pay scales, there are often 'hidden scales'. I found myself so far out of their hidden scale it restricted income growth, but they wanted me and made it work.
Just ask for what you want but don't call her the HR girl lol.
As above, I'd email the hiring manager (your new boss I assume) and the HR manager.
The HR manager has limited skin in the game so you might get a less favourable response.
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I’d add as others have said contact the hiring manager, it is not unheard of for hr to reduce the compensation package without them being aware, you are keeping the communication with them alive while ensuring they are aware of the challenge.
Last edited by Captain Morgan; 21st October 2022 at 23:26. Reason: Punctuation’n’ting
Tbh I don’t have the hiring managers details, everything has been done through the HR recruiting team.
I’ll reply back to her and I’m sure they will inform the two guys who did the interviews and inform them.
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Obviously there is always linkedin if you had some other follow up questions now you’ve a offer on the table.
That's not the best route. If you have further questions about the role, then reach out through HR for the hiring managers email address. Agree with the other comments that this type of dance is not untypical.
So an update, I sent the recruiting team a question asking what the exact salary band was for the role.
In my application my salary expectation states ‘£48,500 to £51,500 as per the advert’
For some reason though I definitely remember seeing an advert stating £50-£55k for the same job, anyway I can’t find that now so it’s irrelevant.
The HR recruiting team has just come back and said the range for the role is £37,500 to £48,200 a year, they have offered me the top end.
Just spoke to my partner and she says there is something off about it. She says it’s too much of a drop and a risk to take it, me I am sitting here now thinking I can’t take that drop.
Basically I’d be down more than 50% of my current salary for working away.
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Well it's a massive drop, whether it's £48k, £50, or £55k and after tax the diff between those 3 numbers is not much at all.
Only you know your situation and priorities, but on the face of it I'd sit tight and see what other opportunities are out there.
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I’m annoyed with myself for not taking screenshots of those adverts, there is no way I would have put £48500-51500 as per the advert if that was not the case on the application history as well.
My OH is telling me to sit tight and keep looking whilst we work out what we do going forward.
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Marty if you have such strong reservations ( rightly so I might add) now , then I would say leave it. As others have said , businesses recognise talent and pay for it. There is a such large disparity between their lower level and your anticipated upper level, never mind what you already earn.
Its always flattering to get a job offer, but if it doesnt feel right now whilst they court you , it’s unlikely to get better long term
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