Starting photography - tips

[ryanb741]

Hey guys. Would appreciate some advice. I'm looking for a 'high end' starter camera that would really make me take the time to learn photography whilst being user friendly and also high quality at the same time so no need to upgrade down the line? So within reason money is no object (although any more than £5k and I'd really need to do some 'man maths').

Pondering over a Leica Q2 - would that be a good 1st camera that also one that would remain usable once a higher level of proficiency has been attained?

[IanBear]

Hey guys. Would appreciate some advice. I'm looking for a 'high end' starter camera that would really make me take the time to learn photography whilst being user friendly and also high quality at the same time so no need to upgrade down the line? So within reason money is no object (although any more than £5k and I'd really need to do some 'man maths').

Pondering over a Leica Q2 - would that be a good 1st camera that also one that would remain usable once a higher level of proficiency has been attained?

I started with Fuji (popular choice here) because of the vintage look and dials which force you/ allow you to learn the basics of photography through twiddling knobs rather than going into menus.

However, I do a fair amount of low-light photography and ultimately the APS-C systems weren't offering the performance I wanted. I moved to Sony and have the A7C and am delighted with the quality. If you ever plan on doing some video too, Sony works great for both. Most other systems seem to specialise in one or the other.

Be aware lenses are far more expensive than cameras!

Look at what your proposed use-cases are when considering glass. Sony stuff is generally quite lightweight being mirrorless, which for me is perfect, it's similar size to Fuji but has the clout of Nikon.

With your budget don't bother with a kit lens. Go straight to a wide fixed aperture zoom lens and maybe a nice prime.

For £5k you'd get a Sony A7C / A7IV (£1500-2500) plus a Tamron 24-70 F2.8 G2 (£850) and a Sigma 85mm F1.4 DG DN Art (£1000) and some change, which would fulfil just about any need other than distance/ wildlife/ sports photography (you can always rent lenses for occasional use anyway), and those lenses are pretty much top-rated glass. If you wanted, you could easily add a microphone, gimbal, carrying solutions and more for a couple hundred extra. I've also added the Sony 24mm F1.4GM and Tamron 70-180 F2.8

[IanBear]

PS I'd say the Leica is serious overkill - if you want a fixed lens camera get the Fuji X100V and save yourself £4k. The ability to change focal lengths with a full mirrorless system will be worth it, and worst case if you want to learn the ropes, start with the Fuji then upgrade to a Leica mirrorless later

[JasonM]

I wouldn't go all out on anything even approaching £5k yet, good photography isn't really about the kit, its how you use it, a good photographer can get amazing shots on cheap kit, the hardest thing for me was getting my head around f stops and relationship between lenses, work out what you are more likely to shoot, family action shots, portraits, landscapes, macro for watches etc, theres a lens for every application or general all rounders until you get to the next level. a basic but modern DSLR from Olympus or Canon with a couple of lenses is a good place to start to learn the basics I would say, these platforms have a myriad of lenses to chose from used. Maybe find a good independent camera shop to have a face to face chat with?

[AlphaEchoAlpha]

I'd echo a lot of the above, you can get some lovely Canon DSLR cameras quite 'cheap' now and they would be a great place to learn the technical side of photography. Once you've got the hang of it, and found something you like photographing then you can buy some more tailored lenses. The lens will have more of an impact on the image than the camera - no point shooting through a beer bottle!

A 6D is a hell of a lot of camera - perhaps overkill but it'll produce wonderful images from the full frame sensor
https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/ca...6d/sku-1624873

Standard walkaround lens
https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/ca...sm/sku-1624681

A 50mm F1.4 will be great for experimenting with depth of field
https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/ca...sm/sku-1527124

Even this is quite an expensive starter package but should do you well if you enjoy it, rather than buying cheap then immediately wanting to upgrade.

I started with a 10D in 2012 and have had a lot of Canon DSLRs, currently sat with 2 5Diii's and see no reason to upgrade.

Harry

[PreacherCain]

I’ve faffed around with photography in one form or another since I was a kid; various film formats, DSLR and now mainly shoot a Q2 (and iPhone 12 Pro…).

With respect, I’d suggest the place to start isn’t with shiny kit - it’s taking photos. Take lots of pictures with whatever camera you have to hand, and look at what you take, working out what you like and why. If you start with some idea of what sort of images you’d like to make, some vision of what you want to achieve, then you can work out what equipment is best placed to realise that vision. Also, experimenting with and understanding the impacts of aperture, shutter speed etc doesn’t require the latest greatest camera - arguably that sort of thing is best served with something simple and manual.

BTW - I wasn’t joking about the iPhone camera. It really is excellent, and best of all, it’s with you all the time. I think it was Cartier-Bryson who made a remark along the lines that the best camera in the world is the one you have with you when the opportunity for a good picture arises, and I believe he was right. I think that if you try to take one decent photo a day with your phone, for a couple of months, you’ll get a pretty clear idea of the photos you think are good. And you’ll then find it easier to invest your cash in kit which will help you make the sort of pictures you like.

Just my £0.02, your mileage may vary, etc etc.

[Edit: totally agree with Wyvern971 - getting the image as close to ‘right’ as you can in the camera is good because it helps you hone your technical skill. It also saves what I find to be hours of tedious drudgery in post-production… ;-)]

[craig1912]

I went from Sony (A7iii) to Fuji (X-Pro 3). Smaller camera and lenses and lovely JPEGs with various film simulations. Used to have an Olympus EM10 and that was nice and compact too.
I too think the Leica Q2 is complete overkill for a “beginner” and whilst it is a great camera you may get frustrated with the fixed lens.
In your position I’d buy secondhand from the likes of MPB or Wex.

A lot depends on what you intend to do with the photos. If you aren’t printing stuff then full frame could be overkill too.

I’d be looking at something like a Fuji XE4 and a zoom lens for starters. Learn it inside out and then decide where to go from there.

[A440]

BTW - I wasn’t joking about the iPhone camera. It really is excellent, and best of all, it’s with you all the time. I think it was Cartier-Bryson who made a remark along the lines that the best camera in the world is the one you have with you when the opportunity for a good picture arises, and I believe he was right. I think that if you try to take one decent photo a day with your phone, for a couple of months, you’ll get a pretty clear idea of the photos you think are good. And you’ll then find it easier to invest your cash in kit which will help you make the sort of pictures you like.


]

I have to agree here. Some of the best photos I've taken have been with my iPhone. Subject, timing and composition are everything. Expensive cameras are nice (I own a Fuji X100, it's lovely but I rarely have it with me). If you have plenty of free time and like going out with a camera, then by all means a good camera is a worthwhile purchase. However, the quality of pictures you can get out of an iPhone these days really is incredibly good (for amateur purposes).

[PreacherCain]

I have to agree here. Some of the best photos I've taken have been with my iPhone. Subject, timing and composition are everything. Expensive cameras are nice (I own a Fuji X100, it's lovely but I rarely have it with me). If you have plenty of free time and like going out with a camera, then by all means a good camera is a worthwhile purchase. However, the quality of pictures you can get out of an iPhone these days really is incredibly good (for amateur purposes).

Absolutely. A huge part of the hobby (for me) is being in the right place at the right time.

I was really pleased with these photos, for example - just noodling about in the garden with my phone a couple of weekends ago.

[David_D]

I wouldn't go all out on anything even approaching £5k yet, good photography isn't really about the kit, its how you use it, a good photographer can get amazing shots on cheap kit, the hardest thing for me was getting my head around f stops and relationship between lenses, work out what you are more likely to shoot, family action shots, portraits, landscapes, macro for watches etc, theres a lens for every application or general all rounders until you get to the next level. a basic but modern DSLR from Olympus or Canon with a couple of lenses is a good place to start to learn the basics I would say, these platforms have a myriad of lenses to chose from used. Maybe find a good independent camera shop to have a face to face chat with?

Good advice I should have taken. Was into (old school 35mm film) photography as a teenager and my friend had a dark room so many happy hours photographing and developing and printing. Anyway, roll forward several decades I buy a couple of relatively expensive Canon DSLR which have then had minimal use. A decent cheap second hand to try out and help you decide what you want is very sensible.

Definitely consider size and weight. That’s one of the reasons my DSLRs never get used. Can never be bothered to lug them around.

[ryanb741]

Thanks for the replies gents

[thebuffoon]

Hey guys. Would appreciate some advice. I'm looking for a 'high end' starter camera that would really make me take the time to learn photography whilst being user friendly and also high quality at the same time so no need to upgrade down the line? So within reason money is no object (although any more than £5k and I'd really need to do some 'man maths').

Pondering over a Leica Q2 - would that be a good 1st camera that also one that would remain usable once a higher level of proficiency has been attained?

Going against the grain, I've spent a fortune on cameras over the years and the best camera by far I've ever owned is a Q2. Image quality and usability far surpass anything else and I've had SLR's since I was 12 years old.

It does narrow your options with the fixed lens, sport and wildlife photography isn't going to happen with a Q2 really. For street, landscape and family stuff, superb bit of kit. As a first and last camera. it'd be good.

[number2]

We look forward to seeing your camera on SC £300 + will get you a bridge camera with manual / auto, then practice, practice practice, join an online club / forum, over the years I've bought a few nice cameras and I still can't get the results that others can with much less expensive kit.

[Wyvern971]

I think most have said it, get to grips with cheaper kit and move up later.

I'd advise keeping an eye on SC for a bridge camera with the ability to play with settings to get into it inexpensively.

I'd also advise having a browse on talkphotography.co.uk

Edited to add, try to get the photo right when you take it, don't rely on post processing to correct things. Certain aspects will be hard to fix after, and some just not possible.

[noTAGlove]

I think most have said it, get to grips with cheaper kit and move up later.

It is not just about getting grips with the kit, it is about understanding whether the whole thing is going to be a long term hobby, or just and whim and a fad.

Better to have a £1k regret spend if you find out you are not really interested after all.

But, the way Ryan is with watches, I don’t think he does half measures.

[domwells]

When do you see yourself using it and what kinds of photos do you want to take?
I went for an RX1 as a compact (relatively) high quality bit of kit that I can carry around without much fuss.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

[Metalic Mud]

Depending on what you want to photograph. If not sport.
I would like to suggest something like a used Sony RX1R. It’s a full frame compact camera with a fixed ZEISS 35mm f2 lens.

These can be had below £1000 now. They are as complicated as you want them to be. However, they also have idiot modes.
There is absolutely no need to buy a Leica, unless you particularly wish to spend all your £5000 on a M10 plus Summilux lens.

Just seen the other post ref. RX1. Spooky.

[mav112]

what type of photography are you thinking of doing,


Sent from my iPad using TZ-UK mobile app

[ah5168]

Photography is mainly about, composition, understanding light and as you get better selective focus. You would be better off buying cheap camera and mastering the basic skills, you can then make an informed decision about the kit you need.

Anything that has a good viewfinder and a constant aperture zoom lens would be a good choice, you should be able to get something used that won't hold you back for about £500.

Watch a few youtube videos to get you going and then pay for a couple of half days photography tuition with a pro photographer that you get on with and photographs the sort of thing you are interested in.

[David_D]

what type of photography are you thinking of doing,

Just made me think of this! No offence intended to the OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kwh3R0YjuQ&t=1m30s

[Itsguy]

If you really want to learn about photography, choose something where you can afford a selection of prime lenses, eg 24 or 35, 50, and 85mm to start. Then experiment until you fully understand, in practical sense, the relationship between focal length, aperture and sensor size in terms of controlling depth of field, and how ISO and shutter speed feed into that and affect the results. Maybe you know all this already, but for me that’s the technical understanding you need to develop, on the camera side, when getting into the art of making beautiful images. So in terms of camera kit, budget for that journey. A camera with a largish sensor and a fast-ish zoom can give you some of that, but my feeling is the penny only really drops when you start using some fast primes and see what they can do at lower apertures. And at the same time, comparing what you get by shooting the same subject on each lens, seeing where you have to stand to achieve that, and how the resulting image looks.

NB I’m quite fond of LUMIX micro 4/3 cameras for usability, and also for shooting video, but due to the micro 4/3 sensor, it becomes even more critical to have fast primes, as almost any zoom will limit your control of the depth of field. But as others have said, it depends what you plan to shoot.

[ozzyb123]

Strongly recommend a Fuji X100V, an iPhone and a subscription to Adobe Lightroon. As others have said it’s really about taking lots of shots and thinking about composition / how you frame stuff. You can tweak most other things in post.

I think you can get an X100V for like £1k-1.3k. Pocket change versus the cost of a Q2 + all the supporting gear. More than that, it’s more compact than the Q2 which is actually quite large in the flesh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xellos99]

Rule 1 : dont buy a Leica

Rule 2 : throwing money a photography does not work out well

Rule 3 : buy a mirrorless

Rule 4 : get a canon RP and a RF 24-105 F4 L zoom lens

Rule 5 : see how you get on with that and take it from there

[Longblackcoat]

I bought a very secondhand Nikon D800 and some older manual prime lenses, plus a tripod - the total spend (assembled over time) was well under £1000. Then again, I’m only really interested in landscapes, so high-speed lenses are of no interest, I don’t use autofocus, I don’t need auto-metering. What I really need is the best possible quality image - full-frame was an absolute must.

5 years on, the kit has been upgraded, all of it secondhand, but I still use the original kit as well. Some of my lenses are 40+ years old and are just magnificent. Depending on what you’re shooting, you just don’t need new, shiny stuff.

So work out what you want to shoot, then think what you need. You’re better off spending money on photography courses with professionals than on some bling.

And don’t buy a Leica. Ever. You’ll just look like a muppet.

[J J Carter]

I'm using a Sony RX100 VII, Bluetooth trigger, Smallrig tripod and Adobe Photoshop. These days, pretty much every photographer is processing RAW files through Photoshop, even if it's not obvious!

[craig1912]

. These days, pretty much every photographer is processing RAW files through Photoshop, even if it's not obvious!

They aren’t, many photographers have never used photoshop. Many people will be happy with jpegs. I shoot both but don’t have the time to do too much to RAWs…..and there are many more (better?) options than Adobe.

[Martylaa]

If I were you Ryan then I'd look at a 3/4 system like a Olympus OMD-10 system, grab a second hand one and a couple of cheap lenses, take a couple of classes and go from there. If you spend £5k on kit before you've even decided you enjoy it thats a big financial gamble, spend less, learn about it and then you can always upgrade later...

p.s TalkPhotography forum is a very good place to ask questions...

[joe narvey]

That’s a lot of money for a starter kit. There’s canon mk3 with a Len’s for sale here or on the GS forum at the moment. That would be a great starter camera for little money and when/if you decide to upgrade it would be easy to move on.

[EBB21]

Sorry about this, but, from someone who started on a Kodak Brownie 127 then a something I've forgotten about and then a Nikon FM... a few others I've forgotten about, then a Fujifilm Fuji GA 645 (medium format) and now a Panasonic LX100, I would say LEARN on a cheaper set up. FM great, Fuji, great quality pictures and portable. Even after a while on the LX100 I can't always change what I want to before the picture's gone. I know it's not digital but I would go with the FM, film, yes, but how many good pics will you want to keep and will you get them printed? How many pics would you want to put in a frame and hang on your wall? 2% of those taken? £5000 is crazy unless you're earning a living from it.

[ryanb741]

Once again thanks for the replies. As an aside, if I was able to get a new Leica Q2 for the same price as a 2nd hand dealer would buy it from me (around £3400) would that change the thinking?

[ozzyb123]

Once again thanks for the replies. As an aside, if I was able to get a new Leica Q2 for the same price as a 2nd hand dealer would buy it from me (around £3400) would that change the thinking?

I think if you’re set on the Q2 then go for it. Awesome camera, great build quality and workflow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZIM]

[QUOTE=ozzyb123;6053231]I think if you’re set on the Q2 then go for it. Awesome camera, great build quality and workflow.


I would be inclined to agree, it’s a lovely camera.
Build quality is superb and in basic mode easy to use.

[craig1912]

I think if you’re set on the Q2 then go for it. Awesome camera, great build quality and workflow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What do you mean by “workflow”? Doesn’t that come after the picture is taken and doesn’t have much to do with the camera? I guess there could be no “workflow” if you take jpegs and do no post processing.

[IanBear]

Once again thanks for the replies. As an aside, if I was able to get a new Leica Q2 for the same price as a 2nd hand dealer would buy it from me (around £3400) would that change the thinking?

No 🤣

[craig1912]

Once again thanks for the replies. As an aside, if I was able to get a new Leica Q2 for the same price as a 2nd hand dealer would buy it from me (around £3400) would that change the thinking?

No. Spending that much on any camera before you know what sort of photos you are going to take and before you know what you are doing is to my mind a waste of money.
The Leica is a nice camera but do you need full frame and 47 megapixels?
Have you decided what software you are going to process with?
Are you going to print photos or just publish on digital devices?
Are you sure a 28mm lens (and not being able to change it) is right for you?

[number2]

No. Spending that much on any camera before you know what sort of photos you are going to take and before you know what you are doing is to my mind a waste of money.
The Leica is a nice camera but do you need full frame and 47 megapixels?
Have you decided what software you are going to process with?
Are you going to print photos or just publish on digital devices?
Are you sure a 28mm lens (and not being able to change it) is right for you?

It's a Leica, it's expensive, people who know will be impressed - does anything else matter?

[magirus]

If you really want to learn about photography then buy the Canon 5D MkII + EF 24-105mm L currently on SC. Not sure what the residuals and futures are like on these, but it's a very, very good combination to be starting in photography and progressing with. Of course a bonus is that natural light is free.

[Raffe]

Psst. This.

[jonasy]

Hi Ryan, the Leica Q is a fantastic camera, no doubts about that, anyone saying the opposite has never used one.

However it has a fixed 28mm lens which makes it a limited camera to use. If you want to take portraits for example of your family, it is very easy to create unflattering pictures because you are tricked to stand too close.

Luckily it’s easy to test if the Q is for you - your phone comes with a fixed 26-28mm eqv lens. Try taking photos with your phone, if that is the look you’re after the Q will give you much higher image quality, control, and joy to shoot.

I loved my Q but ultimately sold as I found just having one Focal length too limited. If Leica did a set with 28 + 70 or something I’d throw my money at them …

Edit. It is a bit like getting into watches by limiting yourself to gold dress watches at max 34mm. May work.

[number2]

I think you've missed the point entirely but - If they'll throw in a "selfie stick" then it sounds like a deal.

[Raffe]

You need a Hasselblad. The bigger the better.

[Kingstepper]

Yes, a camera costing 5 figures, not starting with a one.

[ryanb741]

Thanks all

Hopefully I'll bond with it better than the last Leica I had the last time I was trying to learn - it had a weird focusing system. I sold it here;

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Assume the Q2 will be more user friendly?

[martynw]

The Q is a joy to use and I think you’ll be pleased with it. And although it’s ‘overkill’ for a camera to learn with, it is also in some ways a perfect camera to learn on - relatively straightforward controls/menus, nice viewfinder, nice switching between manual and autofocus, etc, etc.

Obviously it’s a compromise in some ways, as is anything you buy.

If you do end up selling it, I imagine it’ll be easy to sell (not always true with s/h digital photography gear) If I’m wrong, let me know and I’ll sell my Q (which I bought on here a couple of years ago) and buy it off you!

DOI: I have/have had too many cameras. I currently have Q, RX1R, X-T30, X100V, Oly EM1. Still can’t work out which of the fixed lens compacts I prefer! The old EM1 is worth next to nothing but remains a joy to use, and M4/3rds lenses are often tiny.

Best wishes,
Martyn.

[Kairos]

Thanks all

Hopefully I'll bond with it better than the last Leica I had the last time I was trying to learn - it had a weird focusing system. I sold it here;

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Assume the Q2 will be more user friendly?

What was it about the last Leica you had that wasn't 'user friendly'?

You still haven't said what kind of photography you want to do... a fixed 28mm lens is going to leave you with a very limited repertoire, distorted faces of portraits and anything else a spec in the distance.

[ryanb741]

What was it about the last Leica you had that wasn't 'user friendly'?

You still haven't said what kind of photography you want to do... a fixed 28mm lens is going to leave you with a very limited repertoire, distorted faces of portraits and anything else a spec in the distance.

Hi. I really like point and click street photography. Really to capture images and moments from travel.

Re the last Leica the focusing system was a faff - it was a rangefinder. I'd have preferred autofocus

[Neil.C]

Hi. I really like point and click street photography. Really to capture images and moments from travel.

Re the last Leica the focusing system was a faff - it was a rangefinder. I'd have preferred autofocus

If that's all you want it for just use your phone.

[thenikjones]

Hi. I really like point and click street photography. Really to capture images and moments from travel.

Re the last Leica the focusing system was a faff - it was a rangefinder. I'd have preferred autofocus

Was everything else about the 2017 Leica OK?

[MartynJC (UK)]

Hi. I really like point and click street photography. Really to capture images and moments from travel.

Re the last Leica the focusing system was a faff - it was a rangefinder. I'd have preferred autofocus

Lots have people have said - if that's your used case, get a Fuji X100V. https://fujifilm-x.com/global/products/cameras/x100v/

You can learn the sunny 16 rule, fix manual focus for hyperlocal distances and f stop for minimal diffraction on this APSC sensor married to a superb f2 lens. It's a joy to use and perfect for point and click street (and portrait and landscape. Can be used totally manually or totally automatic or in between (F-stop, Shutter Speed, ISO, focus all available through old school hard buttons and dials). Hybrid eye-piece. Fantastic Fuji Film simulations, cook your own and / or raw. Touch screen control.

Yes - I have one. I love it because of it's size and tactile nature. I sold my super pro level Nikon D850 and multiple pro-level lenses to mpb for about 3.5K as I just could handle carrying them around and not really getting "better" pics than with my iPhone due to computational photography.

I can recommend MPB if you want second hand.

[drmarkf]

Hi. I really like point and click street photography. Really to capture images and moments from travel.

I do a lot of street and travel photography (and willdife and sports) and use Olympus m4/3, Fuji crop-sensor and Sony full frame gear: all have advantages and disadvantages, but overall I'd say that most of the 'innate advantages' claimed for full frame are just marketing hype, and if you know how to expose and process images properly any sensor size can be made to work and it's not a major factor in my choice for which gear I take out in the street. I include making large prints in that.

The Q2 is dead set for street & travel and will also be fine for the family shots, but you have to be comfortable with not having anything for sport & most wildlife shooting. On the plus side, I'm sure it's also a great pleasure to own and use (which is likely to be a worthwhile feature for many of us here, i imagine). They are quite often available s/h and they hold their value well, so you could be fairly confident you wouldn't lose much if you got one.

I have very seriously considered getting a Q2 (a Monochrom, actually) but for me at least, one major negative is the thought of walking around potentially sketchy areas of the world displaying something that small, portable and valuable: are you sure you'd be happy with that? Photography is supposed to be relaxed and fun... I also use a tilt screen a lot for street (which it doesn't have, and neither does a phone, of course, which is a right pain). Also, you'll get other photographers asking if you're a dentist or a lawyer

Personally I'd recommend getting something cheaper but still highly capable, and spending a significant sum on street photography workshops and Lightroom training. Investment on your skills, as has been said already, will produce a _much_ greater improvement in your images than flashing the cash on gear. You can always buy one later when you know what it offers plus how to exploit it properly.

A Sony A7C plus the Sony-Zeiss 35mm f2.8, a Fuji XPro2 or an XT2, 3 or 4 plus one of their 23mm lenses, or especially an Olympus E-M5 mkiii plus a 17mm f1.8 would be the options I'd recommend nowadays. Yes, the Ricoh GRIII would also be good, and it's extremely pocketable. All of these are much smaller and lighter than most of the older options suggested in posts above (especially the DSLRs) and they have silent shutter options that are fantastically useful for candid street shooting. All 3 have extremely rapid shooting in bursts and really good continuous autofocus (miles better than the Sony RXIRii, for example).

Until recently I would have strongly recommended a Fuji X100V, but I've just returned from a street photography workshop in Copenhagen where 5 of the 10 students had them, including the workshop lead. One of those had had 2 of theirs fail, and the lead had lost all 3 of hers (including one during the workshop). This is too many to be likely to be random variation IMHO and there seems to be evidence of quite frequent mainboard failure. The earlier X100s are good and have proven reliable, but the V has much better focusing, a better lens plus a tilt screen.

Hope some of that helps.