Reply With QuoteAbsolutely. A huge part of the hobby (for me) is being in the right place at the right time.Originally Posted by A440
I was really pleased with these photos, for example - just noodling about in the garden with my phone a couple of weekends ago.
This week's must have.
Started out with nothing. Still have most of it left.
Absolutely. A huge part of the hobby (for me) is being in the right place at the right time.
I was really pleased with these photos, for example - just noodling about in the garden with my phone a couple of weekends ago.
Photography is how I have made a living for the last 12 years I have not read the whole thread but will do and answer in more detail when I can.
Camera wise, what makes Leica special is generally the lenses and how you use them especially at big apertures, I would lose the idea of such high end kit and concentrate on using something like a Fuji X100.
Learn how aperture, ISO, shutter speed and focal length all work together, when it clicks it’s a light bulb moment, until then you feel like your shooting in the dark and not everything will make sense, add in composition and it’s a lot to take in, that said I’m self taught and done okay which I feel is a good way to go, you get your own style that hasn’t been influenced by others telling you to do it like this or that is wrong, it’s how you learn and settle on a style that you like.
Incidentally I’m about to sell a very nice Fuji X100 which just doesn’t get used so let me know if it’s of interest
It may be worth reading these two thread over on Pistonheads:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=109&t=1996290
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...=109&t=1960655
In my opinion there is no such thing as "the best camera money can buy", it's all about compromise.
Throwing money at the best possible image quality will simply fill a rucksack with heavy kit. You'll most likely look at the heavy rucksack and 9/10 times you'll decide to leave it at home.
If you're just learning, I'd recommend a decent bridge camera with a single fixed (not interchangeable) wide angle to telephoto lens. The single lens will do everything you'll ever need. The camera will be aimed at the point and shoot market, with optimised settings for a range of scenes, but will still allow full manual control.
Yeah, it won't be as good as the top end stuff, but until you work out what you're doing you'll get better results with a bridge camera (aimed at the full auto user, but with some manual control) than with a fully interchangeable lens camera (aimed at the manual user with some fully auto stuff.)
Go straight to a high end camera and you'll likely be disappointed with your results.
Or you'll want to change it for something else, because it's lighter, or has different lenses, or, or, or.
Dropping £££ on a leica would be little different tot he bloke down the pub buying a Rolex " 'cus they're best innit!". Actually, no. They're very good, but there are plenty of other ways to go.
Oh and get a copy of Tom Ang's digital photography masterclass.
Last edited by mikeveal; 25th August 2022 at 17:55.
Just to echo the Phone thing, the wife has a 12pro and the photos she gets from it are just amazing, for 99% of the time its so much quicker, easier and better than our Canon DSLR.
Cheers..
Jase
I bought an Olympus OM-D when they came out, it's one of the best cameras I have ever had after many years of Nikon SLRs (analogue and digital). I sold all of my Nikon lenses and invested in some nice Olympus and Panasonic lenses, but I still do 95% of my photography on my mobile phone.
But Leica is so much better.
Someone who lies about the little things will lie about the big things too.
Ryan - I do wonder if the brief is that you want to buy a Leica and use it for snapping and learn more about photography then sounds like you're along the right lines.
If it's you want to learn/practice more photography including understanding all the techniques/variables and would like a decent camera/lens system that can grow with you if needed, then that's a very different question.
Some of the points already made are important around what you intend to use it for, would you be happy with just one fixed focal length, and that's where some flexibility makes a lot of sense. I've owned a number of single focal length cameras including two Fuji X100's and at the moment I'm regularly going out for a walk with just one lens, to see if there is one sweet spot/do it all - including APS-C lengths: 16, 18, 23, 35, 50, 60mm and for me the answer is a resounding no. They're either too long or too short for just one lens solution.
You could alternatively have one main lens (23mm?) Complemented by carrying a 50 and a 16mm. But those three lens' will weigh as much as one zoom covering similar range...
I've also a range of zooms where I've tried comparing quality over range, and again it's not a simple answer. A longer range zoom gives a lot more flexibility.
I've concluded that I'll maintain a library of lenses and select subject to what I'm up to and how far I need to carry stuff.
What I'm trying to say above is if you want flexibility and to grow then you need an interchangeable lens camera, either SLR or Mirrorless. I would suggest Mirrorless as the image quality is such these days that even many professionals don't bother with SLR/full size sensors - and they prefer the smaller size/lower weight of Mirrorless.
What to choose for the camera? I'm biased based on my own choice which is Fuji. There's a whole scene around them, just like WIS although I'm not sure there is a formal categorisation of Fuji Idiot Savant. The lenses are well regarded and if you buy pre-owned they hold the value incredibly well and sell easily if you want to switch/upgrade. Lens' endure and will be the system you commit to..the bodies keep getting upgraded and you can chase the latest whilst still keeping whatever lens' you have.
If you want to learn and develop traditional photography understanding including shutter, aperture, ISO, exposure compensation, film simulations, white balance blah blah then I would recommend the XT series as they have a lot of this in analogue in easy to access ways and make it very engaging. The latest version is the XT4 but my suggestion would be to start with an older model and see how you do.
An XT2 offers stonking value right now. Great image, and extensive control - or just stick it all in auto.
For initial lenses I would suggest that you consider starting with their XF18-55. This is referred to as a kit lens but check out reviews and you'll find that it's a good lens. If you want an alternative then there's the XF16-80 but that's a lot chunkier. Additionally or alternatively consider getting for example a 23mm prime and 50mm prime and try the more old school approach.
I suggest you buy from MPB
https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fujifilm-x-t2
https://www.mpb.com/en-uk/product/fu...2-8-4-r-lm-ois
PS An iPhone won't allow you to do this... I do however think that the point re mobile pho cameras being capable of so amazing stuff is well made, and you'll always have it with you.
Last edited by ASW1; 25th August 2022 at 17:32.
You don’t need fast focussing for street photography anyway. Most street guys I see tend use a couple of manual pre focus settings so they can do quick snaps to catch the moment and know it will almost always be in focus. If you want something that you will have with you then something like a Ricoh GRiii would work well for street. Otherwise get something like a Fuji as mentioned earlier that lets You manually play with the settings to learn more how they work in combination. Composition and an eye for the photo is not something you need expensive gear for though.
Leica M11 and an APO 35mm Summicron lens is the best way to go…
It won’t make you take good pictures but it certainly looks the part, although not much change from around £13k
Lots have people have said - if that's your used case, get a Fuji X100V. https://fujifilm-x.com/global/products/cameras/x100v/
You can learn the sunny 16 rule, fix manual focus for hyperlocal distances and f stop for minimal diffraction on this APSC sensor married to a superb f2 lens. It's a joy to use and perfect for point and click street (and portrait and landscape. Can be used totally manually or totally automatic or in between (F-stop, Shutter Speed, ISO, focus all available through old school hard buttons and dials). Hybrid eye-piece. Fantastic Fuji Film simulations, cook your own and / or raw. Touch screen control.
Yes - I have one. I love it because of it's size and tactile nature. I sold my super pro level Nikon D850 and multiple pro-level lenses to mpb for about 3.5K as I just could handle carrying them around and not really getting "better" pics than with my iPhone due to computational photography.
I can recommend MPB if you want second hand.
Last edited by MartynJC (UK); 25th August 2022 at 18:57.
“ Ford... you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.” HHGTTG
Don’t buy a Leica, a total overpriced bauble with the primary function of looking shiny and gaining the plaudits of your peers.
Plenty of options from Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Canon etc.
to much focus on the bling gear, not enough on the taking or making of images.
get a face/eye detection camera and always have it in focus...You don’t need fast focussing for street photography anyway. Most street guys I see tend use a couple of manual pre focus settings so they can do quick snaps to catch the moment and know it will almost always be in focus.
I have a couple of Canon R6's with most buttons set up in a custom way to suit me, one of them is eye focusing plus A1 Servo, it works so that I can lock on a persons eyes, compose how I wish and track them walking towards me all the while I can shoot and guarantee sharp eyes, compared to my 5D's which are now sold it feels like I'm cheating!
Starting off and learning though I wouldnt advise cutting corners, try to absorb everything and learn how everything works together, I shoot full manual inc any flash if its needed, its the only way to control the light how you want to.
Another tip, dont get sucked in to an expensive camera, essentially they all do the same under good lighting conditions until you have a lot of knowledge and know what suits you best, lenses on the other hand are much more important, they see and cast the image onto the sensor.
I always think of it like HiFi, put crap speakers on high end gear and it will still sound crap, put good speakers on average gear and you will get the best from that average gear.
Why I bought a Fuji X100 is because you are buying a damn fine 35mm f/2.0 prime lens with a decent camera/sensor attached to it, for me its a perfect way into learning and street photography, walk around London, shoot in RAW and edit your images down in black and white, if I lived closer I would have happily taken you out to show you how and why a camera does what it does in certain lighting conditions.
You will get frustrated at times but keep at it and it will all make sense at some point..
Once again thanks for the advice. I'll hold off on the Leica and look at something altogether more suitable to learn on - I'll check out also any local photography clubs and initial beginner courses to get me into the swing.
Good decision. I'd potentially be looking at the X100V, or even better the interchangeable lens Sony full frame A7C with (to start with) something like their 24-70/28-60/24-105mm walkabout zoom. You'll spend half what you would have done on Leica gear, and you'll achieve superb IQ once you learn the basics.
As an update I managed to get a Ricoh GR3 for about £350 which is miles cheaper than the UK. I'll give that a whirl - it did come recommended for street photography by the store and they had a promo on it.
Great choice and a very good price, a popular camera for street photography because of its size and features such as snap focus. I have a Q2 and one of these for when I don’t want to carry the Q2 and they compliment each other well, at a stretch its pocketable.
If you are familiar with the exposure triangle then you’re set otherwise something like the online course ‘A year with my camera’ is a good start, takes you through the basics really well, but most importantly just have fun.
Andrew
A good place to start Ryan. Enjoy it and as mentioned earlier there will be frustrations but they're part of getting there.
I'm sure I remember David Bailey or Lord Snowden making the point that one reason they were able to do some great photos was they took so damn many that some had to turn out great.
they go for 600 used in the UK so 350 is a crazy price, what shop was thatAs an update I managed to get a Ricoh GR3 for about £350 which is miles cheaper than the UK. I'll give that a whirl - it did come recommended for street photography by the store and they had a promo on it.
Bought it from a seller on Shopee. Cameras as a rule are much cheaper in Thailand - e.g that Leica Q2 is £4920 in UK and can be had around £3600 here. I checked out that Sony that Tony linked to - in UK £1899 with lens, here around £1400 or so. But that GR3 was a promo as was a store demonstrator model but it's had like 60 shots total taken and at 14k baht was an absolute no brainer seeing as I'm sure I could get that whole outlay back to a camera dealer in the UK when I get back (although this doesn't have UK plug).
Ryan - you made a great choice actually. I had the GRII for a while and for what you said you want to use it for, especially street photography, it's brilliant as it has a type of zone focussing like the Olympus Trip 35 where you just select the approx distance on the dial and then just snap. It's also very compact and light, which is important for street and travel.
My winning suggestion of camera to get :-)
Ricoh GR is a cool camera, it renders really nicely in Black and white, very under the radar and easily fits in the pocket. Get a case for it as they let in dust otherwise to the sensor. (I have a Ricoh GR)
You want a Leica Q2, then just get one, the focus system is fantastic in AF, you can still MF. Image quality is fantastic and they great to use.
The lens is fantastic and it’s not limiting. I upgraded from a Fuji x100 f as I wanted full frame in a compact, as I shoot full frame heavy other stuff. Still have the X100F.
I currently have the Q and I have used the Q2 and Q2 Monochrome too.
You would not be disappointed with a Q2 but you can easily move it on if you got bored. You need to shoot in Raw as JPEG’s are average, run the raw file through Lightroom and then the image will pop.
If you do not fancy that, then Fuji JPEG’s are better and it’s the way to go.
Leica is not a point and shoot, you need to learn to get the best from it.
I shoot with all kinds of brands and kit, it’s about the picture not the kit.
Leica images have something definitely, I just tape over badge and fly under the radar, otherwise I get people going is that a Leica, is it any good ( it is) but I just say it’s just a camera at the end of the day.
Enjoy the GR, they are fantastic.
Last edited by pastrana72; 26th August 2022 at 13:56.
That’s an amazing price compared to the U.K., wow! Was the camera I’ve been researching as ditched my DSLR to move to iPhone, but need something ‘more’ when I am out & about.
Good luck learning to shoot with it.
All the gear , no idea. You can’t buy good photography skills. Start cheap and aim for good results . Then if you can achieve good pics with that then upgrade. The same as you can’t buy talent charm and style. Face it you are knackered no matter how much money you earn.
Last edited by Stilgoe1972; 26th August 2022 at 14:30.
If you really want to learn about photography, choose something where you can afford a selection of prime lenses, eg 24 or 35, 50, and 85mm to start. Then experiment until you fully understand, in practical sense, the relationship between focal length, aperture and sensor size in terms of controlling depth of field, and how ISO and shutter speed feed into that and affect the results. Maybe you know all this already, but for me that’s the technical understanding you need to develop, on the camera side, when getting into the art of making beautiful images. So in terms of camera kit, budget for that journey. A camera with a largish sensor and a fast-ish zoom can give you some of that, but my feeling is the penny only really drops when you start using some fast primes and see what they can do at lower apertures. And at the same time, comparing what you get by shooting the same subject on each lens, seeing where you have to stand to achieve that, and how the resulting image looks.
NB I’m quite fond of LUMIX micro 4/3 cameras for usability, and also for shooting video, but due to the micro 4/3 sensor, it becomes even more critical to have fast primes, as almost any zoom will limit your control of the depth of field. But as others have said, it depends what you plan to shoot.
Last edited by Itsguy; 26th August 2022 at 14:07.
As an add on with camera prices strangely being so cheap here I've attached some local offers. Conversion is 42 baht to the £.
Any of these offers stand out as being no brainers?
Brilliant thread , only one cheap shot ..at the risk of a hijack what’s the best ( easiest ) point and shoot fit in a pocket up to 1k .. I hate the idea of my photos being in a cloud ..
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Even with phone, no need to use cloud (if that’s your point).
Any more GR deals??As an add on with camera prices strangely being so cheap here I've attached some local offers. Conversion is 42 baht to the £.
Any of these offers stand out as being no brainers?
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Mine was pre owned. New one is around 28k baht or £671. After 7% VAT discount that becomes £624 or so.
I do a lot of street and travel photography (and willdife and sports) and use Olympus m4/3, Fuji crop-sensor and Sony full frame gear: all have advantages and disadvantages, but overall I'd say that most of the 'innate advantages' claimed for full frame are just marketing hype, and if you know how to expose and process images properly any sensor size can be made to work and it's not a major factor in my choice for which gear I take out in the street. I include making large prints in that.
The Q2 is dead set for street & travel and will also be fine for the family shots, but you have to be comfortable with not having anything for sport & most wildlife shooting. On the plus side, I'm sure it's also a great pleasure to own and use (which is likely to be a worthwhile feature for many of us here, i imagine). They are quite often available s/h and they hold their value well, so you could be fairly confident you wouldn't lose much if you got one.
I have very seriously considered getting a Q2 (a Monochrom, actually) but for me at least, one major negative is the thought of walking around potentially sketchy areas of the world displaying something that small, portable and valuable: are you sure you'd be happy with that? Photography is supposed to be relaxed and fun... I also use a tilt screen a lot for street (which it doesn't have, and neither does a phone, of course, which is a right pain). Also, you'll get other photographers asking if you're a dentist or a lawyer
Personally I'd recommend getting something cheaper but still highly capable, and spending a significant sum on street photography workshops and Lightroom training. Investment on your skills, as has been said already, will produce a _much_ greater improvement in your images than flashing the cash on gear. You can always buy one later when you know what it offers plus how to exploit it properly.
A Sony A7C plus the Sony-Zeiss 35mm f2.8, a Fuji XPro2 or an XT2, 3 or 4 plus one of their 23mm lenses, or especially an Olympus E-M5 mkiii plus a 17mm f1.8 would be the options I'd recommend nowadays. Yes, the Ricoh GRIII would also be good, and it's extremely pocketable. All of these are much smaller and lighter than most of the older options suggested in posts above (especially the DSLRs) and they have silent shutter options that are fantastically useful for candid street shooting. All 3 have extremely rapid shooting in bursts and really good continuous autofocus (miles better than the Sony RXIRii, for example).
Until recently I would have strongly recommended a Fuji X100V, but I've just returned from a street photography workshop in Copenhagen where 5 of the 10 students had them, including the workshop lead. One of those had had 2 of theirs fail, and the lead had lost all 3 of hers (including one during the workshop). This is too many to be likely to be random variation IMHO and there seems to be evidence of quite frequent mainboard failure. The earlier X100s are good and have proven reliable, but the V has much better focusing, a better lens plus a tilt screen.
Hope some of that helps.
Cheers Ryan, was hoping for a pre-owned like you. Want more than my 12mini iPhone, but prefer a separate camera vs carrying a big phone with me all the time.Mine was pre owned. New one is around 28k baht or £671. After 7% VAT discount that becomes £624 or so.
If you decide it’s not for you, drop me a pm - cheers
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