Where is all the water?

[Devonian]

As someone that’s doesn’t understand science or technology, I have a silly question. Where is all the water? Is there always the same amount of water in the world, it’s just it will be at a different part?

Looking at weather maps there seems to be droughts everywhere - all over Europe and North America. So is it in the Southern Hemisphere more this time of year?

[Kairos]

There is the same volume of water as there has ever been, it is tied up in different material states. Some is ice, some is liquid and some is vapour.... the extra you are on about is in the sea, and will be evaporated into the sky due to the heat of the surface water then as the air cools and cannot hold the same volume of water vapour, it will come gushing out of the sky in great torrents... but it is the same water going around in the 'water cycle', it just isn't where we want it to be at the moment.

[Kingstepper]

In the sea.

[hilly10]

I think we lost some due to space travel

[Mr Curta]

Cloud storage

[Sinnlover]

There is the same volume of water as there has ever been, it is tied up in different material states. Some is ice, some is liquid and some is vapour.... the extra you are on about is in the sea, and will be evaporated into the sky due to the heat of the surface water then as the air cools and cannot hold the same volume of water vapour, it will come gushing out of the sky in great torrents... but it is the same water going around in the 'water cycle', it just isn't where we want it to be at the moment.

Yep, factor in the increased population and the need for watering crops, drinking, industry etc. means the water whilst a closed cycle is not in the state / area we need it in.

[eldrich]

I'm guessing that since something like 97.5% of all water on the planet is seawater and must be desalinated for us to use. then what is happening is that 97.5% is increasing and the 2.5% is decreasing hence we are running out of 'usable' water.

Great question - one of the reason I love this group.

[tertius]

Cloud storage

LoL. This didn’t get the credit it deserved.

[number2]

Cloud storage

[tiny73]

I passed some this morning

[Kingstepper]

We should burn more fossil fuels.

[BillyCasper]

Hydrological cycle.



Water isn’t where we expect it to be or used to be. The cycle has been disrupted. Deforestation, poor soil condition, run-off, lack of infiltration and uptake and retention by vegetation, evaporation.


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[Rod]

Hehe, we've got it up in Kielder, Northumberland reservoir 😁

[Pardalis]

the government has not built any additional reservoirs in the last 20 years!

[Devonian]

Great question - one of the reason I love this group.

Yes great knowledge on here - thanks all for the helpful answers :-)

[MartynJC (UK)]

It amazes me how much water vaporises from my swimming pool in a week.

Its 10*5m approx and depth goes down about maybe between 1 to 2cm if the pool cover is left off. So that’s 10*5*0.01=0.5 a cubic metre (thanks John for the correction of wording 1/2 of 1 cubic metre <> 1/2m3 ) to 1 cubic metre or 500ltrs to 1000ltrs a week in vaporisation.



The scale of vaporisation in the sea is incomprehensible (to me). It’s a big number!

Fresh water does go round in cycles and nature will balance out in the end - even if it means the annihilation of certain pesky species in doing so. We (humans) need to accept we are part of nature not apart from nature. Also, climate change is natural and happens constantly. This is getting too preachy so I’ll stop now.

where is all the water? Where it’s always been - ice, lakes, clouds and sea. I bet there were fires all over the world a hundred years ago but there was no www to spread the news. As someone said a long time ago, “Nothing new under the sun”.


Martyn.

[Pretzel]

the government has not built any additional reservoirs in the last 20 years!

My understanding is the Government sold (privatised) the water companies that used to build reservoirs, is it not for the new owners to build more reservoirs and maintain existing potable water supplies.

[hogthrob]

People are mostly made of water, and there's more people than ever before, so there must be more water in temporary human strage, amiright?

[MartynJC (UK)]

People are mostly made of water, and there's more people than ever before, so there must be more water in temporary human strage, amiright?

if people are eating less meat is there less water in the cattle these days?

[Ruggertech]

People are mostly made of water, and there's more people than ever before, so there must be more water in temporary human strage, amiright?

Hadn't thought of this. There are nearly 6 billion more people now than in 1922. That's an awful lot of water walking around in bags of flesh!
And I suppose to take it one step further there are a great deal more livestock (all full of water) in the world now to feed those 6 billion than in 1922.

[Ruggertech]

if people are eating less meat is there less water in the cattle these days?

Well the same amount of water per head of cattle, but I see your point. Maybe on average people do eat less meat per person, but if there are billions more of us more cattle are still needed.

[MartynJC (UK)]

Hadn't thought of this. There are nearly 6 billion more people now than in 1922. That's an awful lot of water walking around in bags of flesh!
And I suppose to take it one step further there are a great deal more livestock (all full of water) in the world now to feed those 6 billion than in 1922.

probably a drop in the ocean. Think how much water passes through each one of us a day and the. Per year compared to how much we weigh even if we are say 80% water

[MartynJC (UK)]

I wonder how much an ants body is made of water …

[MartynJC (UK)]

My understanding is the Government sold (privatised) the water companies that used to build reservoirs, is it not for the new owners to build more reservoirs and maintain existing potable water supplies.

Really? I just looked up Thames Water core principles - pure management speak of course :

Nine themes make up the heart of our sustainability policy, which is agreed by our Board. Our policy reflects all areas of our business. It helps us make critical decisions over the long-term. Our nine themes are:

• Protecting water, a precious resource
• Managing wastewater and sustainable drainage
• Mitigating climate change
• Adapting to climate change
• Delivering efficient operations
• Investing sustainably for the long-term
• Ensuring responsible operations
• Enhancing customer inclusion
• Maintaining a safe and sustainable workforce

Our purpose is to deliver life's essential service, so our customers, communities and the environment can thrive, and we aim to deliver this in more sustainable way.

If you fancy building a reservoir here are the .gov guidelines simples! https://www.gov.uk/guidance/reservoi...r-requirements

[xellos99]

the clouds are taking a break

[Ruggertech]

probably a drop in the ocean. Think how much water passes through each one of us a day and the. Per year compared to how much we weigh even if we are say 80% water

I see your point that the water in us is constantly being passed through and replenished, but at any one point about 80% of each of us still consists of water. And there are 6 billion more of us, that is an awful lot of water that would be doing something else rather than passing through our bodies.
Or to out it another way, if the average human weighs 10stone (I've made that up for the sake of the discussion), there are now 6 billion x 8 stone of water more walking around than 100 years ago. Excuse my extremely crude fag packet maths, but hope you get my drift.

[blackal]

The big problem with building reservoirs is that the locals don't want them...................

When you sell off the water infrastructure - there are no commercial enterprises which want to tackle all the protests from locals.

But - when you look around at the reservoirs that were created decades ago - they have now become a local and national asset.

[walkerwek1958]

We should burn more fossil fuels.

+1......problem solved!

The water cycle concept is intriguing, the water in your glass could contain molecules from Julius Ceaser's piss!

[Maysie]

For anyone in this thread who is interested, there is a well made film on BBC iPlayer at the moment regarding rivers, reservoirs, rainfall etc.

It is more of an arty film-makers take on the subject rather than a pure documentary style production but does make for enlightening (if a bit depressing) watching.

Arena - 'River' (BBC 4).

[Samlack99]

Yep, factor in the increased population and the need for watering crops, drinking, industry etc. means the water whilst a closed cycle is not in the state / area we need it in.

Sweet.

I didn't know water was a closed system.

Every day's a school day =)

[MartynJC (UK)]

I see your point that the water in us is constantly being passed through and replenished, but at any one point about 80% of each of us still consists of water. And there are 6 billion more of us, that is an awful lot of water that would be doing something else rather than passing through our bodies.
Or to out it another way, if the average human weighs 10stone (I've made that up for the sake of the discussion), there are now 6 billion x 8 stone of water more walking around than 100 years ago. Excuse my extremely crude fag packet maths, but hope you get my drift.

I need to do some "maths", but I suggest its insignificant compared to the weight of water in the oceans - 97% of all water - see below

Here are my crude calculations and I stand to be corrected:

From your numbers water in 6billion people approx is: 6e9*8*14 = 6.72e+11 lbs compared to water in the ocean 1.45e18*2e3=2.9e+21 lbs

so comparatively 0.00000000023 - tiny humans are insignificant compared to the Earth, I wish we would grow up and get less self centred.

using google I picked up these "facts" - no reason to doubt:

The last point is relevant 1.45e18 short tons (where a short ton is 2000lbs).

• There are 328,000,000 cubic miles of seawater on earth, covering approximately 71 percent of earth's surface.
• About 97 percent of all water on earth is in our oceans, 2 percent is frozen in our ice caps and glaciers, less than 0.3 percent is carried in the atmosphere in the form of clouds, rain, and snow. All of our inland seas, lakes and channels combined add up to only 0.02 percent of earth's water.
• The Antarctic Ice Sheet is almost twice the size of the United States.
• Earth's ocean is made up of more than 20 seas and four oceans: Atlantic, Indian, Arctic, and Pacific, the oldest and the largest.
• The ocean accounts for 0.022 percent of the total weight of earth, weighing an estimated 1,450,000,000,000,000,000 short tons (1 short ton = 2,000lbs).

[MartynJC (UK)]

+1......problem solved!

The water cycle concept is intriguing, the water in your glass could contain molecules from Julius Ceaser's piss!

Don't forget the Carbon Cycle

[Mick P]

+1......problem solved!

The water cycle concept is intriguing, the water in your glass could contain molecules from Julius Ceaser's piss!

It pleases me somewhat to think that you lot could be drinking my piss.

On a more constructive note, there is a programme on, I think, ITV about the rivers of England and the problems that affect them.

[Pretzel]

Really? I just looked up Thames Water core principles - pure management speak of course :

Nine themes make up the heart of our sustainability policy, which is agreed by our Board. Our policy reflects all areas of our business. It helps us make critical decisions over the long-term. Our nine themes are:

• Protecting water, a precious resource
• Managing wastewater and sustainable drainage
• Mitigating climate change
• Adapting to climate change
• Delivering efficient operations
• Investing sustainably for the long-term
• Ensuring responsible operations
• Enhancing customer inclusion
• Maintaining a safe and sustainable workforce

Our purpose is to deliver life's essential service, so our customers, communities and the environment can thrive, and we aim to deliver this in more sustainable way.

If you fancy building a reservoir here are the .gov guidelines simples! https://www.gov.uk/guidance/reservoi...r-requirements

As you indicate - pure management speak and box ticking.

I worked for a water company prior to privatisation (sold to Veolia a French company at the time). Even as a small water company, we built water towers and reservoirs to meet predicted upcoming demand.

[sprite1275]

So the amount of water in the world stays the same all the time whether it's vapour, in the sea, our bodies etc?

[blackal]

So the amount of water in the world stays the same all the time whether it's vapour, in the sea, our bodies etc?

Unless like me - you have 5 liters in your fridge…………………..

[oldoakknives]

the government has not built any additional reservoirs in the last 20 years!

Weren't they deemed to cause environmental issues?

[MartynJC (UK)]

So the amount of water in the world stays the same all the time whether it's vapour, in the sea, our bodies etc?

there are chemical reactions that produce water - so not strictly true. It's in a state of flux. But there is an awful lot of water in the oceans which tends to make these give or takes amounts insignificant.

I'd have to dig into my geology notes to check where the oceanic water came from - another question. Some say it rained a lot.....

From my O lovely chemistry.

Acid + Base -> Salt + Water.
HCl + NaC03 -> NaCl + CO2 + H2O + heat

Some chemicals are hydroscopic, for example honey absorbs moisture, being +80% sugars, others the reverse.

So strictly speaking unless you get into quantum physics, atomic particles (and hence energy) are not created or destroyed. Entropy always increases (unless there is time reversal - general relativity and all that). I digress!

[Kingstepper]

The process of respiration by animals produces water (and carbon dioxide) whereas photosynthesis by plants is the reverse - water and carbon dioxide are used to make carbohydrates.

Where did it all come from? Perhaps the most likely theory now is that it arrived on asteroids from the outer Solar system early in the Earth's history.

[Omegamanic]

I think we are under estimating the number of bottles of the stuff sat on shelves ;)

[eldrich]

there are chemical reactions that produce water

Acid + Base -> Salt + Water.
HCl + NaC03 -> NaCl + CO2 + H2O + heat

Some chemicals are hydroscopic, for example honey absorbs moisture, being +80% sugars, others the reverse.

So strictly speaking unless you get into quantum physics, atomic particles (and hence energy) are not created or destroyed. Entropy always increases (unless there is time reversal - general relativity and all that). I digress!

Unless you get into nuclear physics atoms are not created or destroyed - although they can be converted to other atomic species.
However molecules are created and modified and broken apart all the time.

So while in general the number of hydrogen and oxygen atoms in the world is stable to the point they would be considered constant for most things, the number of water molecules is not quite as stable although I would suspect that we are talking on the orders of magnitude of insignificant change in how many are being added/subtracted to the world total.

Water being the amazing solvent that it is has the remarkable property of being very easy to become impure very easily. The same reason why it is such a good solvent is also why it's a liquid at room temperature instead of a gas. CH4 methane - gas, NH3 ammonia - gas, H2O water - liquid at room temp, HF hydrogen fluoride - gas at room temp.

Amazing stuff really water - shame we has wasted so much of it.

[Kingstepper]

Unless you get into nuclear physics atoms are not created or destroyed - although they can be converted to other atomic species.
However molecules are created and modified and broken apart all the time.

So while in general the number of hydrogen and oxygen atoms in the world is stable to the point they would be considered constant for most things, the number of water molecules is not quite as stable although I would suspect that we are talking on the orders of magnitude of insignificant change in how many are being added/subtracted to the world total.

Water being the amazing solvent that it is has the remarkable property of being very easy to become impure very easily. The same reason why it is such a good solvent is also why it's a liquid at room temperature instead of a gas. CH4 methane - gas, NH3 ammonia - gas, H2O water - liquid at room temp, HF hydrogen fluoride - gas at room temp.

Amazing stuff really water - shame we has wasted so much of it.

NH3 and HF aren’t good examples - they also exhibit the property that makes water a liquid at room temperature.

[Mr Curta]

The Tiger Who Came to Tea drank all of the water in the tap, so that must account for some of it.

[aa388]

Amazing stuff really water - shame we has wasted so much of it.

I’m not sure we waste so much, we certainly use far to much. We’ve a system where all the upland moors are now drained so quickly they can’t soak up water to store it and drain it into the rivers at a steady rate. It’s crazy when farms can get a grant for draining the land but also get a grant to fill in the ditches they’ve just been given a grant to dig ?*??. Now it rains, runs straight off the moors into the rivers causing flooding when there’s heavy rain just so we can grow sheep and have good grouse moorland. Add the amount of the county that’s covering concrete and tarmac that does similar were in a world of our own making. All the tap water in the uk is safe to drink so how come as a nation we buy so much bottled water? Like a lot of things we take it water far to much for granted.


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[pacifichrono]

Ask anyone living in Kentucky...all the water on earth seems to be flooding the state!

[Mick P]

There was a rather scary programme on the TV last night about the rivers of England being polluted by farmers who are chucking cheap chicken poo everywhere as a fertiliser in order to be able to produce cheap and plentiful vegetables for us lot. We want/demand good quality veg at the cheapest price possible and chicken poo almost guarantees this.

The problem is that the poo goes into the soil and leaches out into the rivers and the levels of dangerous algae is now polluting the rivers and is killing the wildlife. It looks a horrid mess and even lake Windermere is now infected with a blue/green algae which no one in their right mind would swim in and wildlife cannot survive in it at all.

Canoeist are now staying away because they have to spend hours disinfecting the boats and oars and the problem is accelerating like an upward curve.

Your cheap veg of today is going to kill the wildlife of tomorrow.

[LRB255]

There was a rather scary programme on the TV last night about the rivers of England being polluted by farmers who are chucking cheap chicken poo everywhere as a fertiliser in order to be able to produce cheap and plentiful vegetables for us lot. We want/demand good quality veg at the cheapest price possible and chicken poo almost guarantees this.

The problem is that the poo goes into the soil and leaches out into the rivers and the levels of dangerous algae is now polluting the rivers and is killing the wildlife. It looks a horrid mess and even lake Windermere is now infected with a blue/green algae which no one in their right mind would swim in and wildlife cannot survive in it at all.

Canoeist are now staying away because they have to spend hours disinfecting the boats and oars and the problem is accelerating like an upward curve.

Your cheap veg of today is going to kill the wildlife of tomorrow.

Yes, saw that program. Very disturbing and depressing

[eldrich]

Yes, saw that program. Very disturbing and depressing

There are power stations that burn the chicken waste to produce electricity but the downsides of that is increasing carbon output I guess.

[Filterlab]

There's some in the bottom of my dishwasher. I can RMSD a jar of it to you if you'd like?

[MartynJC (UK)]

There was a rather scary programme on the TV last night about the rivers of England being polluted by farmers who are chucking cheap chicken poo everywhere as a fertiliser in order to be able to produce cheap and plentiful vegetables for us lot. We want/demand good quality veg at the cheapest price possible and chicken poo almost guarantees this.

The problem is that the poo goes into the soil and leaches out into the rivers and the levels of dangerous algae is now polluting the rivers and is killing the wildlife. It looks a horrid mess and even lake Windermere is now infected with a blue/green algae which no one in their right mind would swim in and wildlife cannot survive in it at all.

Canoeist are now staying away because they have to spend hours disinfecting the boats and oars and the problem is accelerating like an upward curve.

Your cheap veg of today is going to kill the wildlife of tomorrow.

Chicken poo is excellent alround fertiliser - no need to chuck chemical nasty by-products of phosphate etc produced by the chemical industry. Probably the inorganic fertiliser doing the nasty business. Bl@@dy wimpy townies don’t no shit from poo. (Please take this in the spirit of the forum on a Saturday night)